General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Good luck, and sorry for the novel! Just want to help.
I appreciate your help and to answer the questions:
1. Do you let your wife just TALK?
I probably could improve on this but I thought I did. For now it is a little late. I have tried to get her to open up about this or anything else and she is tired of talking now.
2. Do you REALLY think she does nothing all day?
Her schedule is like this: wakes up between 9 and 10. Feeds the three year old. Runs on the treadmill for one hour. Has lunch and watches the DVR. Picks up the 6 year old from school then helps him with his homework. Takes a shower. Spends the rest of her day on facebook and soccer forums until our evening shows come on. Goes to bed around 11 but doesn't sleep right away because she is back on FB. I take the 6 year old to school at 7:30 and work until 5, get home around 5:45. I do all of the housework inside and out besides the laundry.
3. When's the last time you did something nice for her?
For Valentines day I bought her a new laptop, a dozen roses, stuffed bear and chocolate. I got a card that probably had to shortest message in the history of VD cards. She did write "I Love You" inside so I was pretty geeked about that.
4. Are you willing to try anything to save your marriage?
I am but not at the price of my manlyhood at this point. I gave that up unintentionally years ago by completely coddling her along in life and I feel I've lost her respect which is why she doesn't want sex anymore. IMO.
I don't know your wife, but I would have taken all that you have done in the past few months as a bit controlling. Behavior changes in the past 1.5 months, and you are asking her to read books, go to counselling, and you even went with her to her dr's appt and spoke up. And she got mad about it. Almost like you demanded a reason, an answer, immediately. If she doesn't know the answer, you are providing it for her.
Just my opinion from the other side of the fence.
The more you seem to push her, it seems that she is pulling away even more and maybe she really does need some space. To make her own decisions.
Who wouldn't be frustrated? (I can easily see how these behavior changes would make a person upset) But keep a thought in mind.
You have offered her suggestions of how to fix her life.
Is it possible that she won't do them because you suggested them?
I'm afraid I have played this thing completely wrong from the beginning. She said she wasn't happy and when pressed, said that I was too short temperred with the kids and drank a little too much. So that to me meant that I should be more leveled when it came speaking with my kids and to drink less. I did exactly that and will continue to do so as it has improved the environment in the home.
Not long after she announces to me that she no longer has a sex drive and hasn't had one in awhile and has just been going through the motions. She also is having problems losing weight in spite of her best efforts so I add it all up and I thought maybe some of this can be attributed to her previous thyroid problem. I took her to the doctor because it was her first visit with him and I wanted to make sure she was honest about ALL of her symptoms (though I didn't tell her that this was the reason I was taking her).
Just as I predicted, she only mentions weight for which I spoke and told the doc about the sex drive and other symptoms. He decides to run a thourough set of tests to rule out everything. Pissed off that I told him about this stuff she now says she does have a sex drive just doesn't want to do it with me right now and here we are.
It is all a mess now. My first marriage failed partly because I was thick headed with my spouse and wouldn't back down on things (that and her infidelity).
The next time I get married I promised myself I would treat her like gold and now it looks like that decision will cost me this marriage.
I am hurt but she seems unaffected. I love her but she shows no love at all. The closer I try to bring her, the farther and more cruel she gets.
This from a woman who's whole world SHE planned, and I implemented. I know she doesn't want to go back to work. I know she wants to stay home with the kids. It would kill her to lose her soccer hobbies and yet she is putting this alll on the line and breaking my heart for some reason she can't even articulate. Everyone who knows of our situation cannot believe she is behaving this way. Her own mom whom she is close to and talk about this is entirely in my corner because she can't find a reason, and her daughter can't articulate a reason to jeopardize her future and the happiness of the home and kids.
Theres no marital abuse, no infidelity, no child abuse, no drugs, no gambling NOTHING. Just a loving husband and two great kids.
That is why I thought this could be partly because of depression as a result of her underactive thyroid or depression by itself. She is risking everything and doesn't know why. She just knows that she lost her sex drive and "something is missing" between us. And she's conveyed that to me in cruel and demeaning ways.
If it isn't depression, then my only conclusion is that she has lost the respect for her man and from what I know, women don't like sex with someone they don't respect. A loss of respect would explain why she can't explain it. She's trying to find events (so was I) when in reality it is a state of mind as a result of being cared for to the extent that she was.
She is resistant to change because she feels no threat of actually losing anything at all.
The only answer I can think of at this point is to take my balls back and completely change my interactions with her. I hope it isn't too late.
Her schedule is like this: wakes up between 9 and 10. Feeds the three year old. Runs on the treadmill for one hour. Has lunch and watches the DVR. Picks up the 6 year old from school then helps him with his homework. Takes a shower. Spends the rest of her day on facebook and soccer forums until our evening shows come on. Goes to bed around 11 but doesn't sleep right away because she is back on FB. I take the 6 year old to school at 7:30 and work until 5, get home around 5:45. I do all of the housework inside and out besides the laundry.
You have to stop this crap right now. This is not a husband and wife relationship, it is a lady of the house/servant relationship. I am not surprised she has no respect. Do what you need to do for yourself and your children, but stop doing anything for your wife.
And I'm not a man, but from a woman's perspective, if you showed the anger in your attempts to regain respect, it wouldn't work for me. It would come off as punishment for not doing what you asked.
True space would be allowing her to fix her own life, while you do what you can do, fix yours. Hopefully the guys can help with that. Keep the anger out of it. It's not a punishment. It's a redirection of your energy. From fixing her to what do you want out of your life.
3. When's the last time you did something nice for her?
For Valentines day I bought her a new laptop, a dozen roses, stuffed bear and chocolate. I got a card that probably had to shortest message in the history of VD cards. She did write "I Love You" inside so I was pretty geeked about that.
I think this paragraph ties into everything everyone has said. It really says it all. You are chasing her at nausium, going overboard X 10, crowding her, clinging to her, doing most the housework, buying all the gifts, etc etc etc.
Your that damn puppy that keeps bouncing in front of you, licking you, poking you, staring at you, dropping toys on your lap over and over and over until as cute and lovable as you are - you just want to scream and lock you outside for an hours break.
Serioulsy, You need to follow mem's advice. You need to reinvent you. You need to go back, and be the man you were when you started with her.
If you do nothing, as of right now you are a lock to lose her.
Change, start today. Have your own life, your own interests your own hobbies, and quit gut checking everything with her. Invite her sometimes if you wish but do it anyways if she declines.
Be a little selfish. Watch the movie YOU want to see. Leave some housework for her to do cause you have other things to do. (And let her know you expect her to do it) Don't be a pushover.
If there was ever an example of killing her with kindness, this is it. next bday or holiday - do nothing for her or very little. If she questions why, just tell her your not feeling it. Your seperated... you forgot... whatever. Let her be disapointed. It will mean she has noticed your not bouncing in front of her trying to get her to pat your head.
P.S. - I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to illustrate to you what is going on so you can adjust. I have been guilty of some of this myself in the past. Seriously, owing this, changing this, and being yourself will pay you more dividends than anything else you can do.
I appreciate your help and to answer the questions:
1. Do you let your wife just TALK?
I probably could improve on this but I thought I did. For now it is a little late. I have tried to get her to open up about this or anything else and she is tired of talking now.
I bet if you kept trying and showed her you are there ONLY to listen and hear her, then she would open up To me clearly your wife feels like talking to you is pointless, probably because she doesn't feel like her feelings matter to you or get through to you (as you say, you start talking but end up fighting, that is exhausting and eventually she would give up trying). So showing her that you are NOW here for her, no matter what she says, would make a huge difference.
I can tell it's not too late by the mere fact that she's still talking to you. When it's truly over she would have calmly delivered divorce papers to you with no emotion. She's still engaging with you on some level.. so maybe it's worth a try? If you choose to do this, just be READY to endure an onslaught of words you will hate and things you will want to point out, and debate. If you end up fighting then you didn't do it right. Sometimes things may not even make sense to you. To help her, you must be strong and not point out any of these things. Realize that a lot of things said are pent up, over exaggerated. Think of it as your wife expelling the poison keeping her this cold person, so she can then get back to normal.
Also to be clear that this is not saying you have to do this all the time, marriage is communication by both parties. However sometimes a woman needs to be heard, and to let things out, just like sometimes men often need space for a bit. Getting past this hurdle of coldness and silence is the first step towards healthy communication. This will be a difficult thing for you to endure for your marriage's sake. And no, relenting to your wife to listen to her no matter what is said does NOT make you less manly. On the contrary, it takes a strong person to endure it. And your wife will take notice.
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2. Do you REALLY think she does nothing all day?
Her schedule is like this: wakes up between 9 and 10. Feeds the three year old. Runs on the treadmill for one hour. Has lunch and watches the DVR. Picks up the 6 year old from school then helps him with his homework. Takes a shower. Spends the rest of her day on facebook and soccer forums until our evening shows come on. Goes to bed around 11 but doesn't sleep right away because she is back on FB. I take the 6 year old to school at 7:30 and work until 5, get home around 5:45. I do all of the housework inside and out besides the laundry.
Thank you for breaking that down If she indeed does nothing in the evening than it seems she's pulling away from her life. Facebook is a type of escapism. She's getting something from there that she's not getting from home. As she's talking with friends, it's probably a place where she's "heard" and validated and gets attention from people who feels like she matters. Which would play into the theory that she's not feeling that at home (not saying you're NOT trying to make her feel that way, but your methods may not be the exact thing she as a different person needs).
I know you are hurt, and you are resenting her lifestyle, but my advice would be to get rid of this "keeping score" of who does what, at least until things are better, then if you're still unhappy with the level of responsibilities between you two, discuss them healthily with your wife, who hopefully by then has bounced back to her old self and is taking more on by herself.
Something I read in one of the books is that a woman cannot give of herself fully unless she feels fulfilled (or cherished). That includes housework, loving you, and everything else. She's not doing it on purpose, but it this is indeed true, then helping her feel cherished should help fix some of your complaints about your lifestyles.
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3. When's the last time you did something nice for her?
For Valentines day I bought her a new laptop, a dozen roses, stuffed bear and chocolate. I got a card that probably had to shortest message in the history of VD cards. She did write "I Love You" inside so I was pretty geeked about that.
Awww That IS incredibly sweet!! And may I point out, that she DID respond to it.
However you must move on past Valentine's Day, do something nice and thoughtful often (try for once a day, just something small). Even pointing out how gorgeous she is and making a big deal of it counts. Or if you notice that she's on Facebook all the time, make her computer area nice ( I know that particular thing would kill you as you hate her being on Facebook, but I promise you, showing her support like that even if you don't agree is something she'll notice).
I do not agree with others saying you're doing too much. I think you are trying, yes, which is wonderful of you, but maybe not in quite the right ways.
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4. Are you willing to try anything to save your marriage?
I am but not at the price of my manlyhood at this point. I gave that up unintentionally years ago by completely coddling her along in life and I feel I've lost her respect which is why she doesn't want sex anymore. IMO.
Thank you for your opinion I can sense the resentment and anger you feel, and I'm so sorry you feel that you've given up your manlyhood years ago. To a man that is a very important sense of self.
If I may say, that to me, you have NOT given up your manlyhood, in fact you have become moreso a man than most. You have taken care of your family, both financially and in the household, you are trying to take care of your wife even though you don't agree with her methods, you are on here trying to understand her, and you're opening yourself up in the process (something else difficult for men). You are indeed more of a man, not less. It takes a strong strong person to move past their pride to give the other person what they need. I understand that you've reached the end of your rope, and that's okay. However consider that to your wife this manliness is not just taking care of house and home, it's taking care of her internally.
Believe me it takes a strooooong man to try and get through the complicated nature that is woman and try to help So you really taking a step back, pushing aside your anger and resentments one more time, and going back into this with the understanding that you may have to try different methods than you're used to, may solve this for you.
But it's always your choice. If your resentment is too much, if anger is too much to cope with, then maybe moving on is the best way for both of you. But in my opinion based on your posts, and what you've said about your wife, I do not think it's too late
Thank you for breaking that down If she indeed does nothing in the evening than it seems she's pulling away from her life. Facebook is a type of escapism. She's getting something from there that she's not getting from home. As she's talking with friends, it's probably a place where she's "heard" and validated and gets attention from people who feels like she matters. Which would play into the theory that she's not feeling that at home (not saying you're NOT trying to make her feel that way, but your methods may not be the exact thing she as a different person needs).
I know you are hurt, and you are resenting her lifestyle, but my advice would be to get rid of this "keeping score" of who does what, at least until things are better, then if you're still unhappy with the level of responsibilities between you two, discuss them healthily with your wife, who hopefully by then has bounced back to her old self and is taking more on by herself.
Something I read in one of the books is that a woman cannot give of herself fully unless she feels fulfilled (or cherished). That includes housework, loving you, and everything else. She's not doing it on purpose, but it this is indeed true, then helping her feel cherished should help fix some of your complaints about your lifestyles.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. She does virtually nothing, he comes home from work and does all the chores, and the advice is to do more? She is treating him as a servent. She needs to be given the opportunity to contribute as an equal. To do otherwise is prioritizing her over him. Equal partnership fosters respect. This current arrangement does not.
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Awww That IS incredibly sweet!! And may I point out, that she DID respond to it.
However you must move on past Valentine's Day, do something nice and thoughtful often (try for once a day, just something small). Even pointing out how gorgeous she is and making a big deal of it counts. Or if you notice that she's on Facebook all the time, make her computer area nice ( I know that particular thing would kill you as you hate her being on Facebook, but I promise you, showing her support like that even if you don't agree is something she'll notice).
I do not agree with others saying you're doing too much. I think you are trying, yes, which is wonderful of you, but maybe not in quite the right ways.
While I agree that he needs to meet her love languages, this suggestion will make it worse. She clearly does not appreciate what he does for her, so why have him do more? This will smother her even more. She is running away from him, and doing more of this will cause her to run more. And don't even get me started on the idea of making it easier for her to slack off on Facebook.
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Thank you for your opinion I can sense the resentment and anger you feel, and I'm so sorry you feel that you've given up your manlyhood years ago. To a man that is a very important sense of self.
If I may say, that to me, you have NOT given up your manlyhood, in fact you have become moreso a man than most. You have taken care of your family, both financially and in the household, you are trying to take care of your wife even though you don't agree with her methods, you are on here trying to understand her, and you're opening yourself up in the process (something else difficult for men). You are indeed more of a man, not less. It takes a strong strong person to move past their pride to give the other person what they need. I understand that you've reached the end of your rope, and that's okay. However consider that to your wife this manliness is not just taking care of house and home, it's taking care of her internally.
Believe me it takes a strooooong man to try and get through the complicated nature that is woman and try to help So you really taking a step back, pushing aside your anger and resentments one more time, and going back into this with the understanding that you may have to try different methods than you're used to, may solve this for you.
But it's always your choice. If your resentment is too much, if anger is too much to cope with, then maybe moving on is the best way for both of you. But in my opinion based on your posts, and what you've said about your wife, I do not think it's too late
This is great advice to be a doormat. Give in more to her and put her needs over your own. Follow it at your peril.
The thing with the schedule never really bothered me too much. I was happy that she was able to spend her day the way she wanted to which was largely unincumbered and at her disposal and on my dime.
Facebook, farmville etc.. never really bothered me either because she is a SAHM and her socialization is limited.
What bothers me is that as a provider, I have met all of her needs financially, emotionally (as far as I knew), physically etc...and somehow I am in this position.
I thought we were happy up until 1 1/2 months ago. We had our own hobbies (true mine are more home based so I don't get out much). We spent most early evening in the room together with her scrapbooking and me on the bed playing a game, all the while talking back and forth. We had this nice thing I thought and then BOOM, she stops her scrapbooking, says she's unhappy and has no sex drive. I would have sworn she was having a PA or EA but I've checked all of that and there is nothing.
She speaks ambivolently now in reference to the marriage. I'll say "Are we going to work on our marriage?" and she'll say "we'll try" or I'll say "Do you want a divorce/" and she'll say "No, but I don't know what I want". Eveything leaves the door open for the worse case scenario.
It is almost like a power play. She can keep me around while she treats me crappy by keeping me on the edge by purposely leaving the D possibility on the table knowing I don't want that.
Yep another long post from me! Sorry in advance for the wordy-ness
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Originally Posted by Paulination
The thing with the schedule never really bothered me too much. I was happy that she was able to spend her day the way she wanted to which was largely unincumbered and at her disposal and on my dime.
I think you are a good husband for just being happy for her being able to spend her day in a way that makes her happy.
I mean no disrespect or insult by saying this at all, but I feel that the mere fact you face the family income as "yours" may not be a helpful way of thinking. I get the sense you think she "owes" you for your work. Yes you are literally the one who makes the money, but that was decision by you both of you to have one work and one stay at home. So really, in a marriage you're partners so the money is both of yours despite who makes it. I feel she is not meeting your need of acknowledging your hard work. It's a common mistake women make. So that's definitely something she needs to work on, but you'll have to make that need of yours known to her in the right way.
My own husband recently did something similar. He felt I wasn't acknowledging him enough, in which I felt I was, but after he talked to me I realized it wasn't quite in the way he wanted, and apparently he had felt this way for years. So now I go out of my way to try and show him my acknowledgment. It really did help in that area of our marriage, he even noted to me he felt better recently. So once you two are communicating again, maybe you could bring this are of your need up to her.
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Facebook, farmville etc.. never really bothered me either because she is a SAHM and her socialization is limited.
Again you are so understanding And I hope you don't mix up understanding with "doormat" as others try to make it out to be. There's nothing wrong with having an understanding, caring frame of mind when it comes to your spouse. You are more the stronger by continually giving that to her when you feel so much resentment.
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What bothers me is that as a provider, I have met all of her needs financially, emotionally (as far as I knew), physically etc...and somehow I am in this position.
Yes, as I mentioned above I feel she should be acknowledging you more for what you do. (I mentioned before, that men need to feel "needed" or acknowledged often, same as a women needs to feel cherished) so she is also not meeting your basic need in this marriage.
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I thought we were happy up until 1 1/2 months ago. We had our own hobbies (true mine are more home based so I don't get out much). We spent most early evening in the room together with her scrapbooking and me on the bed playing a game, all the while talking back and forth. We had this nice thing I thought and then BOOM, she stops her scrapbooking, says she's unhappy and has no sex drive. I would have sworn she was having a PA or EA but I've checked all of that and there is nothing.
Yes, as she says something is missing for her, maybe she doesn't feel cherished, maybe she is trying to get you to pursue her again (in which this is not the way to do it, really) She wants that excitement with you again. However as it seems you two cannot communicate well she hasn't been able to get it across to you.
Was it truly out of nowhere this happened? There was no fight, or event that happened around this time?
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She speaks ambivolently now in reference to the marriage. I'll say "Are we going to work on our marriage?" and she'll say "we'll try" or I'll say "Do you want a divorce/" and she'll say "No, but I don't know what I want". Eveything leaves the door open for the worse case scenario.
Yeah... seems to me she does NOT want to divorce you, she loves you, but is trying to get her needs met by putting in this situation. I believe she's trying to startle you into seeing that her needs are important, and to get you to finally listen. Again, not the right way to go about it. But for you, it's your choice if you love her enough to be the first one to go in and help pull her back to a position where you can both communicate effectively. I heavily suggest that "letting her talk" event if you can make it happen. It can't hurt anyway, and you never know, it may make things known to you that you could only guess at before.
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It is almost like a power play. She can keep me around while she treats me crappy by keeping me on the edge by purposely leaving the D possibility on the table knowing I don't want that.
Maybe, but I don't think she even knows how crappy you feel, or that you're hurting so bad, because SHE is feeling crappy and hurting too. I do feel like she's using the big "D" as a way to make you see her needs, to listen finally. But I truly don't feel it's a way to gain power, I believe it's something she's doing out of desperation, and I don't think SHE even knows why she's doing it.
I don't know you or your wife personally, so I could be waaaay off base, all of my posts and opinions are based off of years of research that I've done for my own marriage, and I'm trying to relay some of it for your consideration in case it may help, but I could be totally wrong. I just had to speak up because I saw so many try and tell you that you are a doormat, you are giving too much, you need to take things from her. None of that is true. You are acting in the most respectable, strong way, and are in fact being a good husband in the best way you know how. Doing all you can, sometimes bending over backwards to be there for your wife, and pull her back from whatever slump she's gotten herself into is NOT being weak. it takes the strongest person imaginable to power through something like this, going against resentment to give more. At least if things do end in divorce, you REALLY know you tried everything you could to fix it.
I feel in one sentence this situation is the result of miscommunication between both of you, and all it takes is a little understanding on both parts to fix it. Please read Men are from Mars, Women from Venus! It's an older book but it has a lot of truth in it. Also my husband recommends the Eric Thomas' "Thank God I'm Married" on YouTube, said it really opened his eyes to my womanly craziness
Mrs. NSWTD, I love your enthusiasm and optimistic outlook of my situation but I feel the last thing she'll want is to communicate more, or hear about my needs at the moment. She is completely self absorbed in what she feels and could care less about my take on things.
There was no fight, there was no anything except her looking sad and me probing. Ofcourse if you ask her she'll tell you that she has been trying to change certain things in me for the last four years but I don't see it that way.
I have told her that I hear her loud and clear and if I didn't get it then, I do know. I have made said changes since this began and it hasn't mattered yet.
I don't know what her plan is, no job, no place to go etc.... I hate throwing that out there but for us to get a divorced so entrenched the way we are makes no sense. If she thinks she's miserable now, wait until she's working 9 - 5 around being a mom and finally taking care of a household of her own. I wish she would just work on it with me.
I'm reading books, I'm implementing what she says bothers her, I'm working out (not fat, just toning up), I'm doing everything while she peruses facebook and soccer forums. I'm also working 40+ hours with head in a freakin' cloud thinking about this all day while I pretend I'm not hurt.
Sounds like she just might need to be jolted out of her fog. Maybe you can suggest a separation. She won't be able to spend her days lost in facebook then. She'll have to come back to reality and then face it. Right now she's tuning you and reality out. Hopefully when she comes back to reality she'll open up. Good Luck, I keep hoping that you'll pop in with a good update.
You believe: Her life without you will suck and she should get her head out of the clouds and be nice to you, the guy who pays for everything.
She believes: Deep down where it matters she believes you are a needy little boy, not a man. And as such that you CAN'T leave her. That's right, she believes you are UNABLE to leave her. One benefit of a 180 is it conveys through ACTIONS that you are ready, willing and ABLE to leave your partner.
There is a guy on here, he had this non-stop series of "talks" with his wife. These are the ones where the HD partner tells the LD partner how much the LD partners sexual refusals, cold behavior, etc. are hurting them. As if the LD partner didn't know. Anyhow this fellow kept "telling her": no sex = no marriage. Thing is he is now back on here, 2+ years into it, still totally sexless and his new line is: "I made a commitment for life and I am going to honor it".
Hmmmm. I warned this guy about his bluster. I told him he either needed to show her he was serious by his actions or he would just make things worse. Oh well.
BTW: During a period of time when he claimed he was "getting tough", he was getting up at 5 AM to make her breakfast every day!!!! Ok then. I guess we all have different definitions of tough....
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Originally Posted by Paulination
Mrs. NSWTD, I love your enthusiasm and optimistic outlook of my situation but I feel the last thing she'll want is to communicate more, or hear about my needs at the moment. She is completely self absorbed in what she feels and could care less about my take on things.
There was no fight, there was no anything except her looking sad and me probing. Ofcourse if you ask her she'll tell you that she has been trying to change certain things in me for the last four years but I don't see it that way.
I have told her that I hear her loud and clear and if I didn't get it then, I do know. I have made said changes since this began and it hasn't mattered yet.
I don't know what her plan is, no job, no place to go etc.... I hate throwing that out there but for us to get a divorced so entrenched the way we are makes no sense. If she thinks she's miserable now, wait until she's working 9 - 5 around being a mom and finally taking care of a household of her own. I wish she would just work on it with me.
I'm reading books, I'm implementing what she says bothers her, I'm working out (not fat, just toning up), I'm doing everything while she peruses facebook and soccer forums. I'm also working 40+ hours with head in a freakin' cloud thinking about this all day while I pretend I'm not hurt.
Mrs. NSWTD, I love your enthusiasm and optimistic outlook of my situation but I feel the last thing she'll want is to communicate more, or hear about my needs at the moment. She is completely self absorbed in what she feels and could care less about my take on things.
Thank you, I just wish I did have the answers for you
Just to clarify what I said earlier, I don't mean more communication, I mean better. IF my theory is the correct one, now is not the time to talk about your feelings and opinions. Now is the time to listen and do only that, as least for this initial conversation. Is it completely fair for you? No, but sometimes to reach a goal you need to do whatever it takes to get there, especially if your wife & marriage is worth the trouble and effort. It takes a strong person to preserver through tough things, pain and unfairness to obtain an important goal. In this case what you could win is your caring loving wife back.
I see what people mean by 180's, but it may only make things much worse.
Imagine being a woman who believes in her heart her husband doesn't care about her, her feelings, really think she matters to him. Now have that husband do a 180 on top of that, become more harsh and pull away further. It would only reinforce her feelings and make her want to truly think about divorce.
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There was no fight, there was no anything except her looking sad and me probing. Ofcourse if you ask her she'll tell you that she has been trying to change certain things in me for the last four years but I don't see it that way.
If I may ask (and it's okay if it's too personal) what things has she mentioned she'd want to change?
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I don't know what her plan is, no job, no place to go etc.... I hate throwing that out there but for us to get a divorced so entrenched the way we are makes no sense. If she thinks she's miserable now, wait until she's working 9 - 5 around being a mom and finally taking care of a household of her own. I wish she would just work on it with me.
I think it's very sweet you are thinking of her beyond her life with you, concerned about what would happen to her. Just to point out, that's incredibly good husband thinking that proves you truly do care for her.
Also, she's probably not thinking about that stuff right now. I don't think she intends to divorce you truly. I believe she's trying to get your attention, which again is not the best way to go about it.
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I'm reading books, I'm implementing what she says bothers her, I'm working out (not fat, just toning up), I'm doing everything while she peruses facebook and soccer forums. I'm also working 40+ hours with head in a freakin' cloud thinking about this all day while I pretend I'm not hurt.
Like I said, try just letting her talk AT you for awhile, without interrupting, and see what comes out, no matter how ugly. You may find that you have not indeed changed everything like you though you did. She may let you know of a problem you didn't even know about, and you may find it's not even YOU! It's worth a try. Just be there for her, look at her caringly, and let her gush it all out. Truly a lot of women realize the true source of their problems during these rants, so it helps her figure things out as well.
My suggestion for next time you see her, instead of acting indifferent, act truly happy to see her. Give her a passionate kiss and say she's beautiful (and really try to show her with your eyes so she knows you mean it.... we women are a perceptive bunch ) And see what happens !
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Re: When the Pain Turns to Anger 
