strange_bound

@desert-rose I'm sorry if I've offended you in return, that wasn't my objective either. I understand you're trying to help but you sounded too harsh and as you understand I'm quite sensitive at this point. (Also read below, and if possible my other threads.)

@EleGirl truth be told I consider this a very minor issue in my troubled marriage. In the worst case my parents are going to be grumpy about this once in a while, then forget about it. I think my thread made this issue sound way more serious than it actually is.

I also failed to point out that I do respect my wife's stand on this matter even though I don't agree with it. Only a few days ago my father brought this up again and I defended my wife. I didn't even bring this up later on with my wife (she was at work when I had this conversation with my parents) - I didn't feel it was necessary.

I don't think this whole issue is major enough by itself to drag my wife to counseling for. My problem with her stand on this matter is twofold:

1] She seemed absolutely traditional before our marriage, and just changed the next day we got married. When I asked her back then why she wouldn't use our address as her permanent one she gave me the response I've stated before in this thread. I respected it and have respected it since, although it annoys me.

But this actually goes deeper: three years after my marriage one day she told me candidly that she was trying so hard to be accepted by my family that she eventually became somebody else. All this changed when she got married and she had her "oh ****" moment- she realized that she had given us a false picture. Thereafter, instead of living up to the persona she had projected, she reverted with vigor to her usual self, which left all of us puzzled and gave rise to many misunderstandings.

Anyway, after I recovered from my shock of hearing her words, I confronted her about why she hadn't told me all this before. She instantly dismissed the whole thing as just idle talk and told me I need not take what she just said seriously. Ever since she alternates between "that was just something I had said not seriously" and "no, when did I ever say that?" And needless to say it haunts me.

2] It annoys me because her stand is impractical (mail going to two places for the same household) and seems deliberately anti-traditional. It's plain strange coming from somebody who started calling my mom "Ma" way before we got married (although my mom hadn't asked her to).

Given all this, how do you suggest I talk to my wife about this?

If my wife were to get an apartment with me she'd probably use that address. But she doesn't want to not live with my parents (too anti-traditional and considered shameful), and neither do I.

My wife has an undergrad from a foreign university. Her father used to be a very high official, but he chose to live in his wife's flat instead of living with his family or independently (considered disgraceful in my culture). So I understand my wife is always subconsciously defending that. My wife works as a manager in retail and is quite successful in her job.

Hope I'm making any sense at all here.

desert-rose

No harm, no foul. We're five by five.


Sounds like she was just trying to be someone else, someone she thought you wanted her to be, instead of being herself. Sounds like she has realized that and now feels trapped a little by the fact that she made a commitment and wasn't true to herself. Sounds also like she cares for you and wishes she could make it work, but is at odds with herself. Maybe she is just depressed and confused?

This IS substantial enough an issue that you guys should go to counseling. Counseling isn't a punishment or a last resort or any indication of insanity, it's a way to make things better. It's a way to communicate the things that you're not able to communicate in the context of whatever is going on. If you want to have a house built, wouldn't you go to an architect to seek counsel? You wouldn't just stare at plans and blueprints without making sense of them, right? Psychologists are trained to help people figure things out, so try it. It can't hurt, right?

You can guess all you want about what's causing the problem (which won't do you any good) or you can try to address it. Ultimately, you have to talk TO her and figure out what's going on because she's the only one who knows. You can't just try to change her mind or behavior, you have to try and understand and go from there.

strange_bound

@desert-rose I'm happy to see you didn't abandon my thread. I started going to a counselor (my wife refused therapy) and after a few sessions my counselor said that she couldn't really help, we need to see an MC.

Of course my wife refused. After many arguments and lots of pleading and threatening she finally consented to seeing an IC, then stopped after two sessions. Since our Nepal trip she's a lot more positive and has started seeing an IC again. Seems like she is at least coming face to face with her issues.

I am trying my best to understand her, but I think it pretty much all went horribly wrong when she decided to fake herself to win over our hearts. She's confused and at odds with herself, but she's not depressed. The thing is her natural reaction to confusion is denial, and that hasn't helped.

Still, I have been trying for six years, and I'm determined to find out if we really can love each other to the fullest.

Thor

OK I just read your other post about your wife not consummating your marriage.

You are not married. You do not have a "marriage" or any normal romantic relationship with her. She is a broken person for some reason. Without her getting a lot of good therapy she is not going to be a normal partner for you.

All cultural issues aside, she is a deeply damaged person. I am sorry for what you are going through, and I am saddened for whatever she has experienced to make her like this. She is suffering too.

My sincere suggestion is that you seek an annulment of your marriage. This is not a divorce, it is the marriage being declared never existing.

Perhaps you can explain if there is a cultural difference, but in my view there is only one legitimate need or function which is filled by marriage. That is sex, and the related result - children. You can have friendships without being married. You can feel love for a woman without being married. You can even share a house with a woman without being married and without having sex. Being married implies you and your wife are family. Husbands and wives enjoy a life long sexual intimacy which is part of the bonding which only two people can create. You cannot have this experience with other people, at least not at the same time. Husbands and wives are generally expected to become parents and raise children in a family.

Your wife is refusing to take on any of the legitimate roles or functions of a wife. You have never had a marriage except on paper. I don't suggest you threaten her with divorce or threaten her with an annulment. She has deep beliefs which she is not going to change with a little bit of pressure from you.

I'm sorry you are in this position. I think you need to decide which is more important to you, your own life or avoiding whatever disappointment your parents might feel about you getting an annulment. You deserve your own life and you deserve to seek meaningful happiness.

strange_bound

Thanks @Thor. Here's a shocker: turns out I'm _not_ a virgin. Apparently we had had sex once - on the night when I first told her, very seriously, that I couldn't live with her like this.

We fought; she felt betrayed (strangely); and then we ended up making out. The whole episode indeed happened but it constantly skips my conscious mind because that whole fight and its aftermath is a blur to me. It was just too many intense emotions going off at the same time. I recall the fact that the "love making" happened but honestly cannot remember at all what the experience was like.

(Well I somewhat do- it was confusing and I wasn't even sure that the shot was fired in the right place, if you get what I mean. Overall a very confusing and underwhelming experience- so much so that I don't even remember it usually. I only found out about this because I vaguely remembered it after posting here and confirmed with my wife. Anyway, forgettable make-up sex once is probably worse than not having sex ever- and I feel like a virgin anyway. Nonetheless, since the "sex" happened I don't think I could get the marriage annulled- correct me if I'm wrong here.)

****

My wife is finally undergoing therapy and seems serious about it. She indeed is a complex character. One of the reasons that she turned out the way she did is her troubled relationship with her parents- she claims that she was treated as the "second-class child" of the house when she was growing up. I.e., her brother was the favored child - he was the one who always got the better presents, more attention, and even his choice of education (expensive school compared to her having no say in which school she would have to go to).

While this may seem strange, this sadly used to be the case in many traditional households in the Indian subcontinent. But not in recent memory- and in my family at least all this is completely alien. But even by the standards of traditional families my wife's family seems to be an extreme case. My wife's mother reportedly called her a "wh*re" when she started having her periods quite young.

So naturally my wife turned out to be a really stubborn person. By the time she was in high school she was her own person and would not take orders or advice from anybody. But it's not that she didn't exactly have a role model- my father in law is a lot like she is. He absolutely doesn't care about social protocol and doesn't give a s**t about what another person might feel.

It's hard to tell how factual my wife's claims of childhood neglect are, especially since her social aloofness, stubbornness and hotheadedness parallel her father's. Plus, my in laws strongly deny my wife's claims and seem quite saddened by them (my wife counter-claims that they're in denial). I have seen however that both my in laws call their son almost on a daily basis; but they hardly ever call up my wife. My wife in turn rarely ever calls them up. That all this is in stark contrast with my family and creates a lot of tension would be a profound understatement.

Anyway, the reason I brought all this up is because my wife doesn't even seem to realize how much her unresolved issues with her parents are affecting her as a person. I pointed it out to her on a few occasions, but she took offense. I'm highly unconvinced that she will have shed proper light on it during her counseling sessions.

****

Despite whatever issues my wife may have, my chief complaint against her is that she never put any effort into our marriage- until I was adamant that I would leave her if she didn't address our situation (sexlessness plus her poor relationship with my family). No amount of past bad experiences can justify that, and it just makes me question whether our relationship is at all her priority. For instance she never really wanted to be intimate or have a good relationship with my family. If she could get by, she would prefer to get by. My great mistake was that I was so patient all along, foolishly hoping she would one day grow up...

I definitely know better now and would like to make sense of my life. I want to wait and see how committed she really is to fixing our marriage, and if I'm not convinced I'm not going to stay anymore.

LemonLime

How about she is her own woman and can do whatever she wants. This is really not a huge thing in the grand scheme of things.

strange_bound

@LemonLime if you are referring to the question this thread started off with, I've already responded to that here.

LemonLime

I only read the Op, so yes, it was in response to the that. Skimming thru, I do see there are deeper routed issues, good luck with everything

Coffee Amore

I'm sorry but I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact you had sex (while apparently sober) but didn't realize it. Especially if this was your first time and you're losing your virginity after six years of marriage, wouldn't you notice you're doing something really different with your wife?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I just don't understand how you don't remember that event. Were you drunk?

The first time is usually underwhelming for most people.

I'm glad there's some progress....I hope things work out for you both.

strange_bound

@Coffee_Amore No I wasn't drunk, and trust me this surprises me as much as you. All in all I feel that my resentment is unconsciously blocking the experience, repressing it in my mind.

AmandaC

Hi,

I am an Indian women too... I am sorry to know that you have been going through this for 6 years.

I suggest if you are not happy with her being herself and she is not happy trying to be someone else... then its better to call it off....I just think you can only give a certain amount of time to build or repair a relationship. If that doesn't happen, it wont happen ever again.

Also, I am very very shocked and confused to know that you vaguely remember if you ever had sex with her. I am sorry but how could you not remember??? And it means the marriage is consumated. Anyways, I am not trying to argue here.

Lastly, dont fall under pressure from your parents or society. Do what your conscience says Do what you feel is the right thing to do, not just for her but you too...

Hope both of you find peace.

God bless you.

Amanda

endlessgrief

No need to apologize. I am tired of people getting offended so easily to where you say you are sorry about your opinion. If they get offended, they will just have to get over it.

AmandaC

I would like to add one more thing here. Why would she not change her permamanent address?

Can you give an example of a situation whereby she has said that your parents are too involved?

I think for us to judge you need to give a full picture...

regards,
Amanda

strange_bound

Thank you all for responding.

@Amanda, regarding not remembering having sex with her - as I've said previously in this thread, this perplexes me too. I'm so damaged psychologically that certain areas of my mind are apparently blocked out.. I just don't want to recall certain memories at all.

Anyway, I'll recall the incident in detail here. What happened was this: my parents were visiting us for the first time in three years, and my wife was being totally a *****. She rarely had a five minute conversation with them although they were with us for nearly four months. All she would do was leave early in the day for work, come back home in the evening, say something monosyllabic such as "hi" and then go to her room. She even would not always come out to have dinner with us together.

(Backstory: my wife firmly believed (and possibly still does) that my mother in particular was very mean to her after we got married. That's BS compared to what she did to my family, so I won't get into that here.)

Even when my parents were here visiting us, my wife suddenly decided she wanted to attend her nephew's first birthday.. in Nepal. And she left. I'm sure my parent's didn't like it.. my father told me, "Why couldn't she just ask us to come visit after her nephew's birthday?" I didn't have an answer. Anyway during her absence I realized for the first time how stressed I was being with her. And I finally had the peace and calm to think in my head.

So when she came back, I had a better understanding of things. I told her one night that her actions have really hurt me over the years. That I could take every hurt coming from her but could not see her insulting my parent day in day out. I told her she has to change or I would leave her. She broke down; she was in shock. She kept saying that she couldn't believe I was telling her all that, knowing how much it would hurt her. Etc etc. She even wanted to leave right then. Anyway I didn't have the heart to see her like that. I wanted to comfort her and we eventually ended up having sex.

However, fifteen minutes after this, when I am dreaming of a new dawn in our relationship, she reverts to being hurt and confused. She once again wants to leave, as if nothing has happened. I guess that's when I blocked that incident in my mind. It just really tore me apart.

Anyway, once my parents left my wife wanted to leave and then decided (herself) to stay and try to work on our marriage. It's been nearly a year now; while she has made great strides by her standards, things are mostly the same. Example: previously she would _never_ want to talk to my parents on Skype. These days after asking her for a few days, she will agree one day. Before she would have more of an attitude and wouldn't care about my feelings. These days she seems sensitive to my feelings.

However, no sex yet. Only three days ago I tried to get intimate with her, but after a minute of kissing she tells me she's really tired. I believe her and let go of her, although at the back of my head I'm afraid because it feels like I've heard that tone before. Moreover, things quickly go bad - God knows why she just turned "off" today when we were returning home from a mall visit (she was chirpy for a while).

I'm tired of all this and it seems like we're both suffering. I believe she has feelings for me but she seems very confused. I don't know where all this is going.

Why she didn't change her permanent address... read my previous posts in this thread. That's all I can tell you.

Example of a situation where she thinks my parents are too involved.. I am the only surviving child of my parents and therefore try to spend time with them online everyday, as a way of providing mental support. They in turn are two of my best friends in life. But she finds all this "too much" (although now she's much more lenient on this issue). I should point out here that although I regularly communicate with my parents I don't discuss my marriage or relationship matters with them at all.

Bobby5000

You have a dominant difficult mother who dictated what your wife should do, openly criticized her, she is in a 3 against one relationship in her husband's house, and she is miserable. I'd be miserable too. Yet when noting this, you do not accept the obvious but try to explain that in America, Nepalese women are used to being dominated by their husbands and their mothers and you need some input by those culturally familiar. To the contrary, WE UNDERSTAND HER PAIN AND MISERY AND HOW SHE RESPONDS BETTER THAN YOU.

She is partially American and familiar with American values. When she goes outside the home, she will have friends and other people who tell her she does not need to be bossed around and dominated like this, and you and your family's attempt to "get her in line" should not be successful. Having been scared by her new family she is angry and depressed and just wants to get away, and the idea of sex with one with who hurt her is not appealing.

Hey, it's not just your culture, there are plenty of dominating mothers in various cultures and you cannot let them dominate a marriage or make the wife miserable. Your sex problem is obviously an indication of the overall sad state of this marriage, and you have to determine whether you are willing to take realistic steps to try to save the marriage. Since she has suffered so much criticism and abuse, I cannot say whether it is too late. I'd consider an American woman marriage counselor to provide perspective.

Sorry to provide candor. I sympathize with you, since being in a bad marriage is one of the worst things in the world.