General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
A friend of hers is starting a new band (with reputable musicians) and he asked her to stop by a practice to hear her sing. They would like to do a couple songs with a female lead vocal now and then. She is so excited about it, because besides piano, she LOVES to sing and was a trained singer in a barber shop quartet in her younger days.
Your wife is unhappy and your marriage is at a weak point. Having her join a male friend's band where she will practice and go to single clubs at night without you is a really bad idea. Really bad. She is not feeling it for you so she is super vulnerable to attention from other men right now. Either her male friend band member or someone she meets at a club may tempt her while she is unhappy with you and her marriage. Add in alcohol found at these clubs and you have a recipe for disaster. Once you let her join the band and she starts to practice and enjoy being in the band, it will be harder to turn back and tell her to stop.
Do not let her join the band. Tell her that this is a bad idea with your marriage already having issues. Tell that you need to spend more time together not less. Tell her that the band will take away the ability for you as a couple to have real weekend date nights since bands play on weekends. Tell her that what about issues that will arise when the band needs to go out of town for a gig?
Also, you have assumed that she has not cheated already. Almost everyone that has been cheated on thinks this of their spouse until they have proof otherwise. Just because you do not have proof does not mean it has not happened. It may be more than a coincident that she gave you the I am not happy speech just before she asked if she could join her male friend's band. This may have been a set up to get you to say yes. The fact that she is rewriting history and making major issues out of small things is right out of the cheaters script. Cheaters make their spouses into bad guys in order to rationalize their cheating. Since no one is perfect, even a good husband, there will always be small things that they can cling onto as their reason for being unhappy. Their is nothing that you can do to make a cheater happy once they decide to cheat. If you pay attention to them, they will say that you are too clingy. If you do not pay a lot of attention to them, they will say that you ignore their needs. If you are alpha they will say that you are too bossy. If your are beta, they will say that you are not alpha enough. You cannot do the right thing no matter what you try to do. Next will come the "I love you, but I am not in love with you" speech; by then it may be too late.
Odds are, you will regret the band decision like no other in your life.
Do you spend anywhere near 15 hours a week doing date-like things with your wife? Wheither it’s at home with the two of you after your children go to bed, or a nice romantic night on the town with her… you two need to spend that kind of time together.. just the two of you.
Everything else is second to that…
Your children come next. Your sport hobby comes last.
I also agree that he joining a bad is a very bad sign and not a good thing for her to do. The only way this would work out in favor of the marriage is if you were there with her during all of the practices and when they perform publically. This is how affairs start. I would look very closely at her friendship with this man. It’s not a good sign.
I assume that your wife uses a cell phone. Do you have access to it to check her text messages and who she calls?
Does she use the computer much to communicate with people?
She has been married a # of years, she takes care of kids, a house---and her H. wants her to run his hockey fan channel---which I would imagine is absolutely meaningless to anything remotely related to making a mge work
Huh? Who ever said anything about me wanting her to run my hockey website?? What I said was that I handed over control. I was actually fully preparing to shut it down altogether until an existing member of the site stepped up and decided to assume the webmaster responsibilities.
The idea of me dropping that in her lap in a "dont like me doing it, then do it yourself" kind of way is preposterous, and I would have to be a jerk of legendary proportions to even try to pull that off.
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When he comes home he wants to watch his hockey games
No... what I said is that I am DVR'ing the games and watching them at more convenient times when it isnt taking time away from my family. My kids are in bed by 9pm, and my wife is almost always quick to follow. Not from boredom, but because she has been an "early to bed, early to rise" type her entire life. So I often wait until everyone is off to bed and then watch the recorded game, which by the way isnt easy to do since I have to wake up at 4am for work when Im working days. So I am making the sacrifice for my hobby now...not my family.
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He knows she is bored---and what does he propose to spice up her life---something really exciting---going to a museum---give me a break
What you dont know...or didnt bother to infer from my earlier post...is that this is something she would actually enjoy. Is it YOUR idea of a great day together? Obviously not. But some people do enjoy it, and I had already said that music and artistic culture is something she is interested in.
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You got a wife who is probably highly intellegent, she plays the piano, so she must have some talent also---and she has subverted her life to her family---and she is bored as he*l
I dont believe this can be thrown completely in my lap. I actually was concerned all along that her submitting completely to being a SAHM would be bad for her piece of mind, and have always tried to nudge her to find something SHE enjoys. Again...something I had clarified in an earlier post.
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He needs to focus ALL of his available energy on sprucing up his mge---and helping his wife get thru her boredom
My wife is her own person. She is responsible for how she feels and the decisions she makes. I dont control her, and I dont tell her how to think or feel. Therefore, I dont take full responsibility for the aftermath. Certainly, I can do more, and that's why I'm here...to find out what that is. But her happiness is hers to build and create. Whether its persuing music, additional education, a new career, or anything else, I will do anything I possibly can to help her. But I cannot and will not try to live her life FOR her.
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Yes she has problems---boredom, and a H. who thinks 1st of himself, and how wonderful he is----THIS IS HOW AFFAIRS START.
I think 1st of myself. I suppose that's why I own 2 pairs of jeans. I suppose thats why I work as much as I do...so I can blow it on... oh yeah...NOTHING. I dont blow it. It goes toward making a better home and better standard of living for the wife and kids I adore. I suppose that's why I'm here looking to find ways to discern what my wife is feeling and ways that I can be a better husband to her. Because im a boorish oaf who cares nothing for her feelings or her happiness.
Whatever has happened in your life to make you this bitter and cause you to take such a twisted assessment of my situation, I'm sorry for it. But dont project your bitterness at me. I came here for help because I love my wife and kids with all my heart and want nothing but the best for them. If that's something you cannot see, than that's your problem...not mine.
I dont believe this can be thrown completely in my lap. I actually was concerned all along that her submitting completely to being a SAHM would be bad for her piece of mind, and have always tried to nudge her to find something SHE enjoys.
Glad you see what I'm saying. Look I'm a SAHM and have been for 8 years now. Yes it's boring at times but I would never tell my husband I was unhappy and expect HIM to fix it for me.
Now if there are things I SPECIFICALLY want my husband to do I will make that request. But I get the feeling your wife is just making blanket remarks with no real solutions. She just wants YOU to magically make it better and it doesn't work that way.
I respect the concern you have for the idea of my wife going out and joining a band, but that isnt really what she is looking to do. It might be a song or two in a gig or two now and then. they have a lead vocalist, but would like to do a couple songs with a female lead. She doesnt even know whether or not they like her voice enough to offer her the opportunity yet.
Also, I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do. She has never seen that from me, and I cant see it as anything but negative to start now, just when something exciting might be happening. As ive mentioned before...she has never been anything but respectful of our marriage and has come down hard on others who have displayed little or none.
I have always said that if she is going to cheat, she will do it and there is nothing I am going to do about it. People are responsible for their own decisions, and cheating is a decision. Just like not attending enough to my wife's needs has been a decision. I am not going to go out of my way to start acting like she has given me a reason to suspect when she has never done ANYTHING of the sort. Honestly, considering the way our relationship has been over the last 13 years, and the way we have conducted ourselves, I would expect her to be insulted by any direct or indirect insinuation. I know I sure as hell would be. She actually has been in a couple situations where she had knowledge of someone cheating on their spouse, and I've seen her reaction and her rants about the offender. She would have to be an incredible hypocrite to act in exactly the manner she has repeatedly and angrily condemned, and that is hard to imagine since I have never known her to be hypocritical about anything.
I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do.
All healthy marriages should have established boundaries where both parties agree to what they can or cannot do. If you do not have such boundaries, I do not view that as a good thing that you should be proud of.
Also, just for a reality check, if your wife started to kiss the band friend on the lips each time she said goodbye to him and told you that it was OK because they were "just friends" would you not ask her to stop doing that? If your wife told you that she was traveling out of town with the band and they were all double up in each room to save money where she would be sharing a room with her male "just friends" band member, would you not tell her that you have a problem with that? According to your statement that you would never "tell her what she can and cannot do", you would say nothing if she did these things, and that would be a mistake.
One more thing. Although the band gig may start out as a once in a while thing, what happens if it changes to a regular thing where they want her all the time? It will be very difficult for you to change your mind at that point as these other guys in the band may at that point be her closes friends.
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Originally Posted by MightyMoose
I have always said that if she is going to cheat, she will do it and there is nothing I am going to do about it.
Most people that cheat never planned to cheat, but the truth is that almost anyone can cheat given the right situation. The difference between people that cheat and people that do not cheat is observing boundaries.
Just like there is a cheaters script, there is also a script for those that get cheated on. That script includes stating that they will never tell her what she can and cannot do, and stating that if she is going to cheat there is nothing that you can do about it. Both of these statements mean that you will in effect be passive in protecting your marriage. This does not mean that she will cheat on you, it just means that you are allowing the conditions that would make it possible for her to cheat on you and hoping that you will be lucky.
I respect the concern you have for the idea of my wife going out and joining a band, but that isnt really what she is looking to do. It might be a song or two in a gig or two now and then. they have a lead vocalist, but would like to do a couple songs with a female lead. She doesnt even know whether or not they like her voice enough to offer her the opportunity yet.
Also, I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do. She has never seen that from me, and I cant see it as anything but negative to start now, just when something exciting might be happening. As ive mentioned before...she has never been anything but respectful of our marriage and has come down hard on others who have displayed little or none.
I have always said that if she is going to cheat, she will do it and there is nothing I am going to do about it. People are responsible for their own decisions, and cheating is a decision. Just like not attending enough to my wife's needs has been a decision. I am not going to go out of my way to start acting like she has given me a reason to suspect when she has never done ANYTHING of the sort. Honestly, considering the way our relationship has been over the last 13 years, and the way we have conducted ourselves, I would expect her to be insulted by any direct or indirect insinuation. I know I sure as hell would be. She actually has been in a couple situations where she had knowledge of someone cheating on their spouse, and I've seen her reaction and her rants about the offender. She would have to be an incredible hypocrite to act in exactly the manner she has repeatedly and angrily condemned, and that is hard to imagine since I have never known her to be hypocritical about anything.
You can completely write off everything you've said here. Unfortuntately, you could be writing the first paragragh for hundreds of posters in the infidelity section.
First off, the odds your wife is cheating are low but still about 1 in 5. All the conditions are present for it. Along with
millions of others who do and millions who don't cheat.
Do you have access to all her passwords to her phone/texts,emails, computers/facebook etc.?
Trust but verify is the only way to rule this out first.
Joining a band would not be an option in my marriage any more than a girls night out(bar/club hopping) or separate vacations, or a job with traveling. I am way to experienced to even consider things like that.
Here are some books that can help. "Five Love Languages", "Love Busters", "His Needs Her Needs" and "Married Man Sex Life" (not a sex manual but the dynamic between men and women) is the most improtant. Here is a website:
Your biggest problem and hers is that neither she nor you can identify what the specific problem is and that is a real danger.
In the books mentioned above are some tests that the two of you can go through that may give you some insight. MMSL is just for the husband to read.
If you don't see improvement soon, seek counseling before its to late. Good counselors are hard to find so if you go that route don't hesitate to pull the plug on one.
--You don't wanna listen to info., that can help you that is also fine
But do not come on here moaning and groaning about me or anyone else being bitter, just cuz you don't like what you get written to you----your diatribe about bitterness is not even worth a response---what is worth a response is your attitude about how you are doing everything so well in your mge., and that any suggestions are beneath you----YET HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOUR WIFE HAS /IS SHUTTING DOWN ON YOUR MGE.-----
Well as another poster said----let us know if you solve the problem.
I can completely relate to your situation. Except, I am the wife in the situation. And it appears we are the same point in our relationship as you are in yours.
I am miserable right now. I decided, with a lot of pressure from my husband, to stay home with my almost 1 year old daughter. Probably a good call since we found out I was pregnant with our second child that summer. My children are now 5 and 6 years old. I have loved having the chance to stay home with my children. To raise them. But it is boring. Days can go by without having another adult to talk to. Would I change all of that? No. My children are first and foremost.
However, my husband would come home from work... stressed from something, tired, etc and I still had to do everything. Help with homework, entertain the younger one, make dinner, clean up dinner, give baths, put kids to bed... etc etc etc. He would pop his head in occasionally to say good night to the kids but that was the extent of his involvement. I am a SAHM so it's my job to do everyhthing kid-oriented. I was/am exhausted mentally most days.
Our evenings would be sitting in front of the tv. Super exciting there. He goes golfing about once a week with his friends. And of course this upsets me to no end.... he barely has time for us as it is and then he spends another whole day away from us when he could be with us. And I feel guilty thinking that because I know he needs an outlet too... but when is enough enough? When do I get whole days to myself? To be kid-free? Husband-free? Just to focus on myself? So I have internal conflict there... I want him to be happy, but I want to be a priority too. We have not had a date-night in a LONG time... if we do, I am normally the one arranging it, planning it. OR it is something HE wants to do which is the only reason he is making an attempt.
Part of me knows that I need a 'hobby' but I am not musically inclined, artistically inclined, etc. We don't really have that much money to be spending it uselessly. So I stick with being a mom.... since that pretty much takes up all my time as it is.
A lot of my aggravation with my husband comes from his unwillingness to be a good, active father as well. When I DO go somewhere and leave them with him, I know they are put in front of the TV pretty much the whole time I am gone. I have to nag him to attend any of their activities. Or he will go in spurts where he is Mr. Dad but that passes just as quickly as it arose. I know he loves them... but they are only young once. I see their little faces when he goes golfing instead of their gymnastics. It breaks my heart and makes me that more resentful of him.
There is no closeness between us anymore. I am tired, sad, and left wanting more. And I am almost to that point that it's not HIM I want more of... but of someone who would truly put me and my kids first in his life. Who enjoys being with us (because even when he is with us physically, he's not there mentally/emotionally). I would never have an affair (who has time for that anyway) but I am on the brink of starting divorce proceedings. The only thing holding me back is that I am still a SAHM with no income and I will be damned if I walk out without my kids.
I can completely relate to your situation. Except, I am the wife in the situation. And it appears we are the same point in our relationship as you are in yours.
I am miserable right now. I decided, with a lot of pressure from my husband, to stay home with my almost 1 year old daughter. Probably a good call since we found out I was pregnant with our second child that summer. My children are now 5 and 6 years old. I have loved having the chance to stay home with my children. To raise them. But it is boring. Days can go by without having another adult to talk to. Would I change all of that? No. My children are first and foremost.
However, my husband would come home from work... stressed from something, tired, etc and I still had to do everything. Help with homework, entertain the younger one, make dinner, clean up dinner, give baths, put kids to bed... etc etc etc. He would pop his head in occasionally to say good night to the kids but that was the extent of his involvement. I am a SAHM so it's my job to do everyhthing kid-oriented. I was/am exhausted mentally most days.
Our evenings would be sitting in front of the tv. Super exciting there. He goes golfing about once a week with his friends. And of course this upsets me to no end.... he barely has time for us as it is and then he spends another whole day away from us when he could be with us. And I feel guilty thinking that because I know he needs an outlet too... but when is enough enough? When do I get whole days to myself? To be kid-free? Husband-free? Just to focus on myself? So I have internal conflict there... I want him to be happy, but I want to be a priority too. We have not had a date-night in a LONG time... if we do, I am normally the one arranging it, planning it. OR it is something HE wants to do which is the only reason he is making an attempt.
Part of me knows that I need a 'hobby' but I am not musically inclined, artistically inclined, etc. We don't really have that much money to be spending it uselessly. So I stick with being a mom.... since that pretty much takes up all my time as it is.
A lot of my aggravation with my husband comes from his unwillingness to be a good, active father as well. When I DO go somewhere and leave them with him, I know they are put in front of the TV pretty much the whole time I am gone. I have to nag him to attend any of their activities. Or he will go in spurts where he is Mr. Dad but that passes just as quickly as it arose. I know he loves them... but they are only young once. I see their little faces when he goes golfing instead of their gymnastics. It breaks my heart and makes me that more resentful of him.
There is no closeness between us anymore. I am tired, sad, and left wanting more. And I am almost to that point that it's not HIM I want more of... but of someone who would truly put me and my kids first in his life. Who enjoys being with us (because even when he is with us physically, he's not there mentally/emotionally). I would never have an affair (who has time for that anyway) but I am on the brink of starting divorce proceedings. The only thing holding me back is that I am still a SAHM with no income and I will be damned if I walk out without my kids.
Wow, I apologize for this being so long!!!
How much of your post does your husband really know? I would bet he thinks everything is great. Please don't repeat the "he should know" line. Husbands are not mind readers. Also men and womens minds operate completely differently.
If you don't let him know what is going on, its all on you.
Hey Sunshiney Days---and this is not to T/J this thread---but chap. is absolutely right------You should make a concerted effort, to FORCEFULLY sit your H., down and let him know your concerns
He works, but so do you---you subverted your life, with his urging to be a SAHM, that is a job---if he does need golf as an outlet---he should set it up for you to take lessons during the day when your kids are in school, AND HE SHOULD PLAY GOLF WITH YOU
Bottom line make him listen to you----if he refuses to listen or change, then you have every right to get out of the mge,---also you must know you would not leave the mge. with nothing---you will get half of everything, plus alimony, and child support----that info. alone should wake your H. up enuff to wanna keep you happy and make the mge. work
I have spoken to him. He turns it around and says its all on me. It's me being sensitive. Me making things bigger than they are. Etc. Etc. He takes no responsibility in our failing marriage. He is the one who is right and has his smooth-talking ways to back him up. After asking him for marriage counseling and him telling me we don't need it, but that I need counseling alone, that tells me right there he isn't out to save our marriage. That everything is on me and our failing marriage is my fault/problem. If it wasn't for my children and their livelihood, I would have been gone a long time ago.
Mighty Moose- I don't know what to really tell you as I don't know your wife and what she is truly feeling. I am sure she is bored and is resenting you in some form or another. If you two were truly bestfriends at one point, then fight for her. But, please, be aware of what your role might have been in the downward spiral of your marriage. Don't think it is just her boredom that is causing this. A marriage involves two people who put each other first. Don't do things just 'to make her happy' and therefore, out of your hair. That won't work. Do them because you WANT to. Do them because you LOVE her. I can't say how many times my husband would do something becuase I nagged him enough for them and he finally 'gave in to make me happy'. Do things for her unconditionally... don't expect anything back. But most of all... just love her. Nothing forced. Soft words. Showing that you are trying to see what life is like for her. LISTENING to her words... even the most unimportant things she says can make her feel so important if you validate them. If candle lit dinners seem phoney to you, then they are probably phoney to her as well. If museums are a big deal to her, then by all means, take her there. But be active in that outing... just taking her means nothing if you are not 100% emotionally/mentally/physically present.
I have spoken to him. He turns it around and says its all on me. It's me being sensitive. Me making things bigger than they are. Etc. Etc. He takes no responsibility in our failing marriage. He is the one who is right and has his smooth-talking ways to back him up. After asking him for marriage counseling and him telling me we don't need it, but that I need counseling alone, that tells me right there he isn't out to save our marriage. That everything is on me and our failing marriage is my fault/problem. If it wasn't for my children and their livelihood, I would have been gone a long time ago.
Mighty Moose- I don't know what to really tell you as I don't know your wife and what she is truly feeling. I am sure she is bored and is resenting you in some form or another. If you two were truly bestfriends at one point, then fight for her. But, please, be aware of what your role might have been in the downward spiral of your marriage. Don't think it is just her boredom that is causing this. A marriage involves two people who put each other first. Don't do things just 'to make her happy' and therefore, out of your hair. That won't work. Do them because you WANT to. Do them because you LOVE her. I can't say how many times my husband would do something becuase I nagged him enough for them and he finally 'gave in to make me happy'. Do things for her unconditionally... don't expect anything back. But most of all... just love her. Nothing forced. Soft words. Showing that you are trying to see what life is like for her. LISTENING to her words... even the most unimportant things she says can make her feel so important if you validate them. If candle lit dinners seem phoney to you, then they are probably phoney to her as well. If museums are a big deal to her, then by all means, take her there. But be active in that outing... just taking her means nothing if you are not 100% emotionally/mentally/physically present.
Sure am sorry about your marriage. If I were you I would tell him to look at this and show him your earlier post. Then I would tell him its marriage counseling or divorce, so you can find a new man, just take your pick. But thats just me. I know kids make a big difference. But you have not gotten through to him that his marriage is on its last legs.
BTW tell him when he has the kids for the weekend they won't be wanting to play golf.
All healthy marriages should have established boundaries where both parties agree to what they can or cannot do. If you do not have such boundaries, I do not view that as a good thing that you should be proud of.
Also, just for a reality check, if your wife started to kiss the band friend on the lips each time she said goodbye to him and told you that it was OK because they were "just friends" would you not ask her to stop doing that? If your wife told you that she was traveling out of town with the band and they were all double up in each room to save money where she would be sharing a room with her male "just friends" band member, would you not tell her that you have a problem with that? According to your statement that you would never "tell her what she can and cannot do", you would say nothing if she did these things, and that would be a mistake.
One more thing. Although the band gig may start out as a once in a while thing, what happens if it changes to a regular thing where they want her all the time? It will be very difficult for you to change your mind at that point as these other guys in the band may at that point be her closes friends.
Most people that cheat never planned to cheat, but the truth is that almost anyone can cheat given the right situation. The difference between people that cheat and people that do not cheat is observing boundaries.
Just like there is a cheaters script, there is also a script for those that get cheated on. That script includes stating that they will never tell her what she can and cannot do, and stating that if she is going to cheat there is nothing that you can do about it. Both of these statements mean that you will in effect be passive in protecting your marriage. This does not mean that she will cheat on you, it just means that you are allowing the conditions that would make it possible for her to cheat on you and hoping that you will be lucky.
TRy...
My wife and I do have those established boundaries you mention. We have had discussions throughout our relationship about what is acceptable behavior around members of the opposite sex. And i have seen her defend those boundaries aggressively when someone threatens to cross them. I have also gotten unsolicited info from common acquaintances about her basically publicly humiliating guys who try. And it is for that reason that i think it is unnecessary to start getting defensive or acting suspicious now.
As for the kissing other guys thing, or sharing hotel rooms... That is just odd. I said that i don't tell my wife what she can or can't do. I didn't say that included tolerating outright disrespect. I give her the freedom to live her life how she wants, but that doesn't automatically mean that i am willing to have her walk all over me.
And she has already said to me that she knows that the singing thing can't turn into an every weekend type of event because my job schedule requires that i work every other weekend. And when I am doing my stint on night shift, it's straight up impossible. This is coming from her, mind you...Not me. But we both agree that there is no reason why she cannot enjoy this possible opportunity just because it probably would have to be done within the confines of what works for us and our family life. Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: She's unhappy, and I'm puzzled 
If it wasn't for my children and their livelihood, I would have been gone a long time ago. 
