PBear

No, marriage doesn't always work. Heck, I'm separated after being married for 17 years, and I don't plan on getting married anytime soon. But... Dabbling in a committed relationship has a pretty low chance of success too. By refusing to commit 100% into your relationship and demonstrating that to your partner, you're showing her you've got one foot out the door already. So take the step one way or the other, and close the door. If you can't commit to her fully, don't have another child with her, and let her go so she can find someone who IS willing to give her 100%.

C
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RandomReward

Divorce rates are high because those who are "hesitant" get caught up in trying to do what's right or what is expected of them. You aren't on a timeline so don't let the 3 years of relationship feel like a gun to your head. I will advice if you are hesitant about marriage be equally hesitant about having kids. Since your girlfriend was in the front lines of your last marriage she has no choice but to understand.

WhoHaveIBecome

I will advice if you are hesitant about marriage be equally hesitant about having kids. Since your girlfriend was in the front lines of your last marriage she has no choice but to understand.

I'm not hesitant about kids at all. I ended up leaving my wife in part because my girlfriend ended up getting pregnant. I know its horrible and I was an awful person during the affair to my wife. But one of the reasons my first marriage ended up not working was because of infertility issues with my late wife. I love our daughter and I would be delighted if we had another child. I think I am atypical in that sense. The kids are forever even if for whatever reason the relationship isn't. I wouldn't have any regrets about children.

By refusing to commit 100% into your relationship and demonstrating that to your partner, you're showing her you've got one foot out the door already. So take the step one way or the other, and close the door. If you can't commit to her fully, don't have another child with her, and let her go so she can find someone who IS willing to give her 100%.

I think you are right up until the part of let her go. I won't do that but I do feel like I owe it to her to give her the security and commitment. She has been a good partner to me and I am lucky to have her. I am leaning towards marrying her but I just need to get rid of my jitters and pessimism.

Nigel

The guilt you are obviously feeling will probably never go away because every morning you wake up and look at the person who caused you to be like that. I admire your dedication to your gf and your protectiveness over her, by claiming she was not at fault and that the blame is squarely with you. With all due respect that's a load of cr ap and you probably know it. I don't know this girl but you don't have to be 45 to know that having an affair with a married person is morally wrong. The younger woman who did that to me had the following traits to begin with.

Good listener
Appeared compassionate
Very attentive
Intelligent
Didn't belong to the gossip crowd
Claimed to be very moral
Appeared to be sweet and innocent
Liked to portray herself as naive
Came across as a caring and concerned person

Let me tell you something, it was all hog wash! Apart from being intelligent and she didnt gossip ( for obvious reasons) she was had no other traits on that list.

I found out that I had been suffering with depression for a while even before i got involved with her, she even knew this later on and she still kept on with her plan.

Sorry for rambling on, but the point I'm trying to make is that some women (and men) are very very good at manipulating people and their emotions. Even as I was getting better, I still defended this girl to my wife and I insisted she was innocent and everything was my fault. My wife very patiently started to show me how she knew this person operated. At first I didn't really believe it but with my wife's help, I actually started to see the little signs and tricks that this girl plays in her game. I came to detest and hate this person completely because even putting to one side what she did, it became apparent that she had no genuine feelings about me at all, how could she do this to people without having any genuine feelings?. My wifes analysis and her prediction of what this person would do again was totally vindicated when she then went on to destroy another relationship. She spun her wicked web again and and this time snared her boss, who was also in a vulnerable position, with his partner of 20 years. Low and behold a month later he had suddenly ended his relationship (nobody else involved of course...). Obviously it didn't last, it even remained secret or so both of them thought. She finally dumped him on the day that he was about to take out a huge mortgage to fund a place for them to both live. Since then we have discovered she had an emotional affair and had secret dinner dates with her best friends husband (her best friend had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer as well), She had Then tried to get her hooks into another work colleague, fortunately for him he wasnt as vulnerable as she thought he was. She also split up two other relationships that we know about.

It's hard to believe that there are people out there like this, but believe me they exist and they are the worse kind of person to get involved with. Not saying your gf is similar but I don't believe she was the sweet little innocent you are trying to convince yourself she is either. She knew what she wanted, she knew what she was doing and she didn't care as long as she got what she wanted. Just my opinion though :-)
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Jellybeans

I remember your story on another thread.

You left your wife cause you got your 18-20 yr old affair piece knocked up and your wife ended up killing herself/committed suicide due to the fallout and you feel a tremendous guilt over that.

Awful story.

My advice: don't get married.

Why? Because 1. you said you are "hesitant." That is a HUGE red flag. And it's waving big and red for a reason. You're not sure. You're not sold. Marriage is a huge committment. if you aren't 100%, don't do it.

Another reason: you said you're afraid of cheating. You already see/know the mess your cheating and subsequent child born from your affair and divorce and wife's suicide caused. Do you really want to go through that again? (not saying a suicide would happen) but do you really want to inflict that kind of pain that infidelity causes on another again?

It seems you truly have not learned the lesson.

As someone who was hesitant about getting married but did it quickly anyway (and later divorced), I can assure you: it's not a good idea if you're not 100% for it.

WhoHaveIBecome

It seems you truly have not learned the lesson.

I have learned my lesson and I have been 100% faithful to my girlfriend. I could never knowingly cause her pain. She is my rock and my everything. Its different now because we have a daughter that is innocent. I would never ever do anything that would hurt her.

You said you are "hesitant." That is a HUGE red flag. And it's waving big and red for a reason. You're not sure. You're not sold. Marriage is a huge committment. if you aren't 100%, don't do it.

What about proposing and not marrying for a couple years? I think this might work. It would give my girlfriend the ring she wants and give me time to figure things out.

Jellybeans

Well I was basing what I said off the part where you said you are afraid of cheating again.

So no, you haven't learned the lesson.

Well that "may" work for a small piece of time but, ultimately, it's a cop out.

You'd only be proposing to her in order to appease her wanting to get married--selling her the illusion that you "may" some day marry all for selfish reasons--ultimately it would be to bide YOUR time to figure out what YOU want. Neither of those things have her best interests.

In the end, it's all about you (those choices, that is).

Look, do what you like.

But that doubt you have is there for a reason.

Trust it.

__________________
Exposure Letter

Letter to OM/OW

anotherguy

bunch of random thoughts...

I think this is partly good. I would be more worried if you were not questioning yourself. Nobody, I expect, wants to be subject to a failed marriage....again, and its a big step.

The fact that you have a happy family and are considering a 2nd child says a little something too - I think positive.

3 years isnt a very long time. How old are you and she? Are you up against biological clock tic-tic-ticking?

As you undoubtedly know... having kids is when the relationship can really be put to the test. How confident are both of you? Have you talked about it?

My biggest concern is that is looks to me like you hope to have kids (chasing 'happiness'?) and also hope that the relationship will follow along just fine. What I believe works better is that your relationship gets so comfortable, comforting, so grounded, so healthy... that you are so ready emotionally and financially that you find yourselves wanting a family. Is that what you feel is happening? (In real life, I know its not always such a fairy tale of preparedness in such matters - you are never 'fully' ready...)

Certainly - not something to rush into... but then again I am a slow mover. I was married 10 years and had been with my wife for 15 before we decided to have kids.. so perhaps I am not a good benchmark.

My gut says wait a couple years for more kids.

WhoHaveIBecome

3 years isnt a very long time. How old are you and she? Are you up against biological clock tic-tic-ticking?

I'm 34. My girlfriend is 22. So no real concerns about a biological clock in terms of health concerns. I would rather not be 60 when my kids are teenagers so I would like to move faster. In terms of finances we can support another child fairly easily so it wouldn't he/she wouldn't be a burden

As you undoubtedly know... having kids is when the relationship can really be put to the test. How confident are both of you? Have you talked about it?

Our daughter has really brought us closer. She is a really easy child though and we may not be so lucky on the next one. I think we could handle another child (or more) and the baby will happen irrespective of the marriage proposal. The more I think about it the more I lean towards to just going all in. We have talked about kids. Our first wasn't planned. We both come from large families and want to if possible have a large family as well.

My biggest concern is that is looks to me like you hope to have kids (chasing 'happiness'?) and also hope that the relationship will follow along just fine.

You are probably right on this. In my first marriage we wanted kids and couldn't have them b/c of medical issues. So a child became even more valuable and important to me. And with our daughter everything has been perfect. She is an angel. So we want more.

I think our relationship has been good but we have a weird history. For the first few months of our relationship everything was a secret so we didn't really go through normal ups and downs. Then she became pregnant and we focused on that. And then the baby came and she became everything. So we have never had that much "us" time.

We have been really good with our daughter though. My girlfriend is such a wonderful mother and we are a good team on that front.

Like Jellybean pointed out there is some fairly serious drama and pain surrounding my first marriage and that has been hard on me psychologically and it does come up from time to time with my girlfriend and I and its a tough issue.

I just am to nervous for my own good sometimes. I am leaning one way and have been for a while on this but I just wanted some feedback from others. I think I know I need to put the past behind me and go all in but its easier said than done.

WhoHaveIBecome

Woah. That is either great memory or a lot of digging. I suppose technically what you are saying is true. I was still legally married to my wife at the time so I think what I did is somewhat defensible. It was still wrong and I hated myself for doing it. It was such a complicated situation and I took the easy choice instead of being loyal to my girlfriend. Not doing it would have caused my wife so much more pain and there was no right choice there.

I've never as much as flirted with another woman since then. What you are referring to happened literally years ago. Telling her about sleeping with my wife would only hurt her and would do absolutely no good. I thought about this when it was raised in my previous thread and there are not many benefits to telling her. I don't want to re-hash that here.

INTJme

I'm a long-time lurker but I just had to post this. I have been following your story since you started posting.

It appears from your posts that in your personal life the choices you make are based on whatever is most convenient for you at the moment.

If I recall the details correctly you cheated on your wife and got the girl pregnant. You stalled as long a possible in leaving your wife and still continued to have sex with her afterwords. You have never told your current gf this because you claim it would only hurt her (But I really think this is you doing whatever is easiest for yourself...again). And NOW you're posting about buying your gf an engagement ring to shut her up while you decide what YOU want to do? Everything is about you...so selfish.
I really think you need to think long and hard about your situation and learn to take responsibility for your actions and the decisions you have made.

Also, I don't know why you keep defending your gf. I am around her age and have only been in one serious relationship as well. I know that having sex with a married man is wrong and that sex carries the possibility of pregnancy. She knew what she was doing.

Also, I am so baffled when I hear about people who will have children with a person but think that marriage is too much of a commitment. Um, you've already made a life-long commitment when you had a child.

CH

So, your wife couldn't have kids, you were the victim because you wanted a family and your wife couldn't provide it for you.

You slept with someone else and got her pregnant and left your wife to be with the mother of your child to be.

Your wife then ends her life because of the situation but now you're worried about getting married but still want more kids with your current gf.

Dude, you are messed up, you don't want a wife you want a baby producing factory IMO. So what happens if the current gf says, no more kids? Get another woman that will have another kid for you?

This is about as messed up a situation as I have seen on this board. BTW, your current gf, I hope she wises up and sees what she is to you.

Sorry if I'm harsh but damn, you're cold blooded. The only thing that matters if they can push a kid through their V.

WhoHaveIBecome

You can refuse to re-hash it all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that if your gf ever found out, it would be much more painful and do much more damage than if you were to tell her yourself.

I hate to say this b/c it sounds awful but only two people know of what happened. Me and my wife. My wife is not with us anymore. Barring me confessing to her there is no way she finds out about it.

Another thing, and maybe it is just me, but not being truthful also shows that you are not truly sorry for your actions, but only sorry for the reactions they caused. A truly remorseful man confesses all his sins.

I've been careful with my wording. I regret doing what I did and I am sorry every single day that a consequence of my actions led to someone I love hurting them self. I honestly don't know what I would do if I could go back in time. If I didn't talk to Emily I wouldn't have her in my life and I wouldn't have my daughter. I was fairly unhappy in my marriage.

You are right that not divulging hurts me mostly so that is why I don't want to say anything. I am not going to do anything that is going to force us to go back and talk about all of that drama. We really avoid talking about that b/c of the hurt and pain surrounding the affair and my first marriage.

I also don't think what you did is defendable. It doesn't matter that you were separated. It doesn't matter that it was years ago.

We are talking degrees now. I was cheating. That in and of itself is terrible. If you are cheating you are automatically cheating on two people (your spouse and the OW/OM). It was 3 times over 2 years ago. I'm not going to risk things over something that happened so long ago and so briefly. The sex meant nothing to me. I wasn't doing it because I was horny. I did it b/c I was too scared to reject my wife and hurt her.

WhoHaveIBecome

It appears from your posts that in your personal life the choices you make are based on whatever is most convenient for you at the moment.

That just isn't true. It was not convenient at all for me to leave my wife. It was painful, expensive, and time consuming to do it. I did it because I wanted to do what was best for my child and she deserved to have two parents who love her.

Also, I don't know why you keep defending your gf. I am around her age and have only been in one serious relationship as well. I know that having sex with a married man is wrong and that sex carries the possibility of pregnancy. She knew what she was doing.

I guess I am protective of her. I've never said she is completely innocent. I am just more at blame than she is. She offered to terminate the pregnancy to save me the trouble and stigma. She wasn't trapping me. I asked her to keep the baby and I promised her I would be there for our child. The affair is on me. I was the married person. I was the person in their 30s who had been in prior relationships.

Also, I am so baffled when I hear about people who will have children with a person but think that marriage is too much of a commitment. Um, you've already made a life-long commitment when you had a child.

Go back and read my posts. I am going to marry her eventually. I just need to get over my hang-ups and nervousness. I have no plans whatsoever to leave her. I am leaning towards marrying her and I am just a little hesitant because of my bad experience before.

Dude, you are messed up, you don't want a wife you want a baby producing factory IMO. So what happens if the current gf says, no more kids? Get another woman that will have another kid for you?

I shouldn't have cheated. I've said that repeatedly. It was wrong and a horrible thing to do. I've always wanted to have a family and kids and that has always been important to me. I think it is well within a person's rights to divorce if one spouse doesn't want kids or can't have kids. I should have asked for a divorce and not cheated. There is nothing I can do about my mistakes now.

My current girlfriend does want more kids. That isn't an issue. We share the same vision for our family. I wouldn't leave her because I love her and I love our daughter and leaving her would be the wrong thing to do. You act like I've done this type of thing repeatedly. It was once.

BTW, your current gf, I hope she wises up and sees what she is to you. Sorry if I'm harsh but damn, you're cold blooded. The only thing that matters if they can push a kid through their V.

CheatingHubby I think you are being way too harsh. And probably a hypocrite too. If your name means what I think it does you did exactly what I did. My girlfriend loves me and is happy with our life. She is my world. You are way off base about me only caring about fertility. That isn't even 1% true.

Jellybeans

Ok well now you're saying you will marry her so what was the point of this thread? You seem to take issue with everyone's post.
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