RClawson

Entropy this is solid insight and I think it clarifies the issue in a very sensible manner.

I think so many people do not understand the power of emotional intimacy and many, particularly men, cannot relate to it in the slightest. The thing I hate about the threads on this topic is the knuckle drager comments from men that might as well be like this "if it is wearing a skirt I'm gonna hit that stuff if I can ever get a chance".

I grew up with no sisters. My Mom is a fantastic women but unconventional to say the least. I think it is safe to say that it took me a long time to get with the program as far as the fairer sex is concerned (Late Bloomer here). I used to think that I missed out as a teen because of it but now I look on a slow and steady course to dating and marriage as a blessing. Let me explain further to illustrate.

My first real girlfriend was an incredible individual I met at my first year of college. She was a couple years older, extremely attractive, well spoken and very clever. I was attracted in ways that I had never been and somehow I got the nerve to ask her out and to this day I still cannot believe she said yes. She taught me so much about relationships and what I really wanted in a partner for life. Our relationship was physically limited to some affectionate kissing and cuddling. The emotional intimacy was off the charts. We would go our separate ways after that year but she completed the foundation of how I perceive women, what kind of women I wanted to associate with and what kind of woman I would want to marry.

I guess what I am trying to get at is that I respect women to much to let what you are talking about happen. I guess if one of my close female friends began to complain about her spouse (this has never happened) then I would listen to that first conversation and suggest my therapist who I so highly regard. If one of them was being abused by their husband I would do everything I could to make sure she was safe. This would not include me confronting any husband because I think they could kick my a$$ with one hand tied behind their backs.

Entropy I love women. My value of femininity is off the charts. I respect women who value femininity so much but I also believe femininity is diminishing. It is a sad thing. When I hear men talk in forums like these about how if they ever had a chance with the women that consider them friends they would have their pants off in a second it saddens me deeply. Let's face it though over the past 40 years women and society (generalizing here) have done so much to diminish the beautiful thing that femininity is. If you do not believe me drive to you local high school today and park in the parking lot. Then roll down your window and listen to the girls talk. The bulk of their conversations would make sailors blush.

I am sorry I am ranting about this but we talk about boundaries so much that I am always so surprised that people have such a difficult time defining them outside of their oown marriages. I am not stupid. I am completely aware of when I am vulnerable to someone and when that flag goes up that is when the brakes go on. After 25 years of marriage and a lifetime of working in female dominated industries I can say no affairs, no EA's and dozens of incredible relationships with women and their families that I hope to cherish for the rest of my life.

CandieGirl

Don't do that...someone will call the cops on ya! But nice to hear that you have a handle on your op/sex friendships. Because I truly believe that it's a lot tougher than most people realize to keep things on a strict friendship basis; almost always, lines get blurred, whether it's admitted or not. All of those who think "Oh, not my friend, it's not like that at all!", that's only because you have no way of seeing into your friend's mind...often it's exactly like that.

Jeff/BC

As you say... no generalization is accurate in the specific. For me personally, I can't see myself wanting someone as a friend that I already rejected as a lover. Not... at least... without a substantial period of time having elapsed (5+ years). I can't see myself wanting to get re-intimate with that person under any circumstances.

Jellybeans

Noted.

And that is exactly why I should have stayed FAR away from the guy I had an A with. Looking back, we were never "just friends." It was an emotional affair for a lot longer than I ever thought now that I look back. Hindsight is always 20/20.

__________________
Exposure Letter

Letter to OM/OW

Entropy3000

I could never have strong feelings for a women who I did not repsect. So I would just say, now that I have learned from my choices and am wiser for the experience, I repsect my wife too much to put myself at risk.

Lets just chalk this up to the fact that I am a very passionate individual about a lot of things. My example about a wife being mistreated was just an example about a man having protective instincts.
About having feelings for the person.

Also you are in a female dominated industry. I was in the reverse for a long time. But to be sure workplace EAs are abundant. They are about people spending time together and meeting each others needs. That is my point.

I think ultimately you and I are on the different side of the bellcurve here. Both good people. But with different levels in emotional areas.

Again, if an opposite sex friendship comes in between a husband and wife, it is likely IMHO less about one being jealous, insecure and controlling and more about emotional boundaries. Not that being controlling does not occur. Just saying we are just friends and I am not going to give them up should raise an eye brow. Blaming the spouse for their concern is a bit naive in most cases. It comes down to priorities. If this works for you then great. But I am not hearing that your wife objects so you are ok. You do not generate strong feelings for your female friends even when you spend private time with them. That is must for sure if you choose to do this. I know the person I am and I have strong feelings about a lot of things.

__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."

RClawson

Well said and if my wife ever told me she was not comfortable with any of my female friends on any level that would be the end of the relationship.

Entropy3000

We are awesome people!!

__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."

RClawson

Concur

Homemaker_Numero_Uno

My partner had a brain hemorrhage and he is in rehabilitation. I am very happy to have male friends because the provide the sort of social environment for me and personal support and small boosts to self-esteem and feelings of security (to a point) that my partner would be providing, were he able.

We talked about opposite sex friendships, because of our interests and activities we do have them. Mostly I go out with male friends that we both know, or I go to social events or activities arriving and leaving by myself, where these male friends will be, often we will share a meal after and conversation, and part with hugs. I do have a couple male friends that are my own alone, he has not met them because he is in the facility, but I talk about them with him, and fill him in, and I talk about him with my friends.

How do I manage boundaries? One guy I met told me flat out he wanted a relationship with me, that he was attracted to me. I informed him that what he was attracted to was most likely the reflected love and light from my relationship with my guy, and that messing with that would destroy what it was he wanted in the first place. That if the boundaries were crossed, I would be a different person, unattractive, losing self-confidence, light diminished or extinguished, he can hang around in that light, but he better be in moth mode and understand that getting too close is going to extinguish the flame he sees. I told him it is not a choice, but that is the way it is. As a Quaker I have an inclination to learn from any relationship, I don't censor because I trust that given any situation I will be able to discern what is going on, and communicate to achieve balance and understanding. He asked me flat out what he could expect from a social date, and I told him, lunch and conversation. It's up to him to accept or decline, he is the one who has the thing for me. If my heart didn't belong to my guy, maybe I would give him more than that, maybe not, because I'm not in that situation, I don't know how I would feel. I'm in the situation I'm in, and what I feel is that I don't want to be with anyone physically or intimately emotionally but my guy, but I am okay with sharing lunch and conversation, even with someone who has propositioned me. What, am I supposed to dine with someone who thinks I am ugly, unattractive, and dull?

Let's put it this way, I've been eating lunch on my own at the hospital, and the director of cardiology who is married came to share my table with me. We ate lunch together and chatted, I was a graduate of a medical program he knew about, we talked about my ideas, my guy who was in the hospital, my kids, etc. Avoided his work because he only gave me his first name and put his name tag inside his pocket...no biggie. I enjoyed the conversation, I know who he is, whatever. If I'm attractive and look like a good conversationalist and someone wants to share a table with me over others because the patio dining is crowded on a hot spring day, sure, choose me! The funny thing is earlier that week I'd dined with a stranger at a restaurant because we were hanging around waiting for the same person, who never showed. Exchanged phone numbers, I know where he lives, he is 80 years old...what's the issue? I also have a sort of relationship with my guy's old roommate, who is still in the hospital, old guy with no apparent family, my kids and I bought him slippers and visited him even after my guy went to a rehab facility, when I was up there for my daughter's appt.

Intent is everything. I'm a spiritual person, a Quaker. When I talk to someone, it's not with the intent of getting it on, it's with the intent of communicating. Guys have the same issues deep inside as women, everyone wants to learn from life, life involves other people, other people might hold clues to what you need to know to move forward in your life. It's a path, a crossing, a conversation or time spent together. It doesn't imply commitment, it doesn't imply that the natural course of a relationship is to end up in bed. I think a lot of people make the assumption that any relationship between a man and a woman is heading towards sex/bed...but change that perception to one of spiritual understanding, and you get a whole different framework for your relationship, and your conversation.

CandieGirl

The above is a good example of why in most cases, it's not a good idea. Even though you wanted friendship, it appears quite obvious that the two guys did not. Not with each other. Not with you.

Love Song

Yep it's all about boundaries. Thinking you can maintain a friendship with an ex isn't strong boundaries IMHO.

CandieGirl

The point is, you may have the strong boundaries, but the ex may not. Case in point: my husband had an ex who texted him around Xmas; this had been a bone of contention for us for a long time, and we agreed that in our marriage, exes were not welcome. For a woman who claimed to only want friendship, she sure went apesh!t on him when he told her that we'd agreed (in OUR marriage) not to communicate with people from our pasts...

Homemaker_Numero_Uno

As for talking about issues with relationship with members of opposite sex. Generally speaking if I have a problem with one friend I work it out with that friend. So if I have a problem with my partner I work it out with my partner. This boundary of conversation is no different than any other conversation. I don't use my friends for therapy for relationship issues, except if I am dealing with a conflict, then I talk about the conflict but it's not about the other person, it's about how I feel, and it would be a third party, someone who is not a friend, maybe like a work situation or whatever, not an intimate relationship whether a love relationship or a friendship, that has to be worked out between the two people, regardless.

Love Song

When you have strong friendship boundaries it means that you don't befriend an ex. Why? Because that ex was someone you were romantic with or had romantic feelings for. So by your own experiences you can not be friends with this person. Those romantic memories will always be there. So those who try to tell themselves that they are just being friends with an ex are just fooling themselves. It is not possible. Once you cross that friendship line you can not go back.

If someone decides to play the friendship role with an ex, it is surely their choice but it isn't a true friendship. This is why I said that people who try to become friends with an ex do not have strong boundaries.

CandieGirl

Marriage / relationships are tough enough. Why throw in exes? To me at least that much is a no brainer. Other opposite sex friendships? A little tougher to define sometimes. Personally? I just stay away.