Goldmember357

Well first of all "friend zone" does not exist its rather a myth and the fact some people use it or define it as some inescapable cruel zone women place men is ridiculous.


But yes i would agree with you

I feel most mature men and most mature women realize what you just said to be for the most part true. In addition many studies exist and research has found that people even women often almost always make close close friends with someone they find physically attractive and they can connect with on an emotional level.

Is it any wonder why a huge huge portion/percentage of relationships start first as friendships?

How often a friendship turns into dating?

How often a friendship turns into a relationship?

How often a friendship turns into a sexual relationship?

How often a friendship turns into Love?

How often a friendship turns into a marriage?

Most women make close friends with a male that fits their needs on an emotional level and at first more often than not they found him physically attractive. Most of the times "stereotypes FYI" the "hot" cheerleader will not be friends with the obese video game nerd) sorry but its true most of the time. Likewise most guy's are not going to become really really close friends with a girl unless they find her attractive on a emotional and physical level. The difference is that when it comes to not very close friendships women can and tend to easily be able to communicate and associate with males they consider "Friends" but not "close friends" they can mingle with the "friends" and never feel an attraction to them. This is because of many reasons and she has not selected him individually and chosen him to be the one to get closer to her on an emotional level. On the other hand most males who have a female friend but she is not a "very close friend".. The males who have the female who is "friend" But not close friend is a girl they put most of their time focusing on her looks. Since she has not divulged personal and deep stories and since they are not close on a very interpersonal level he could care less about her non deep and her casual talk he will only associate with her if she is attractive.



Often when a female is first attracted to a male and she likes him but he does not initially like her she will always have those feelings if a relationship never ensues. So say a female likes a male and is of course physically attractive to him he eventually turns over and likes her they get to know each other and than they decide on a platonic relationship or a small short term relationship failed but they remain friends. Or for some reason she losses feelings really likes him and the emotional connection that ensues but she lost feelings for a relationship desire with him. Lets say they remain friends and he moves on and she moves on or they had a little thing that never materialized. Flash forward years' later these two are friends. Do you know what will eventually happen 9/10 times?

A relationship of some sort will ensue between these two as the feelings of pent up attraction to one another have been going on to long. Although they have remain detached likely from huge personal feelings and turned those away the constant connection and strengthening of an emotional connection as well as the fact they were previously very physically attracted to one another will cause the inevitable to happen. And what will that be?
The female realizes "wow, ____ and is a really really amazing guy i like him all these feelings i had before are back and its not like when we had our little thing or attraction i really like him"

The male realizes "wow ___is a great girl i cant believe i never initially liked her but now that i can see through her non verbal cues that she digs me and she is to confess it my feelings have returned, i have always been attracted to her but i lost the emotional connection"



The only times i have seen a relationship that is so close remain purely platonic is friendships that date back from the sandbox days. That can only really occur to since kids are not sexually attracted to one another. However if a close friendship from High School or a close "ex" or "love" or friendship that never turned into the relationship both of you wanted but at different times" if any of those friendships carry over into a marriage and the people still meet you can more than likely bet on something happening between the two.

I think its great friendship i am not opposed to that in dating but in a marriage its bound for trouble. Its obvious the older posters and those with more experience know this and yet some people want to remain in denial and play devil's advocate against what is widely the truth accepted and the norm. Of course there will always be individual rare differences but that is an anomaly.

NextTimeAround

I can talk about women who wanted to be "friends" with my husband. They were short with me. At parties, if I wanted to join my husband in conversation, they shut down. If they call the house, they want to be passed immediately to my husband. Then cellphones became more widespread, so they call more often on the cellphone and by pass me completely.

I learn about how my time has been committed through my husband. No joint discussion about the weekend with the female friend. A couple of times I would call them to finalise things, they call my husband to tell him that I called them. Now what can they do for me?

For whatever, reason, my (EX) husband seemed not to have a problem with this.

NextTimeAround

Interesting description that you put here as this is the "friendship" that my bf was having that brought me here. Because of course, anywhere else you go either IRL or on other relationship message boards, you be vilified for being immature, selfish and insecure. Oh dear.

Things are going well between me and my bf. HE cleaned house of her and she is well out of his life. However, I am always curious as to what was actually going on between them.

Before he met me, he knew her for about 4 months (max) and was trying to date her. The e-mails and text messages paint a rather sadistic woman ie "I don't know when I will be free, call me back next week....."

So he moved on. But he stayed in touch with her since I could see an FB private conversation between him and her that he started on the day of our first date. She texted him often by my standards, regularly two or three a day. Then he told her he met me and thinks I'm kind of nice. So she while professing to be his friend, she gets him to talk about me......from "friend to "confidant."

I went to visit my family for 3 weeks at this time. So for someone who is kind of lazy at making friends, he welcomed her invitations to hang out with her friends.

I am really intrigued by the text messages between them. She was asking about me all the time. At first he acted cool about it, like don't worry about her since I don't know how I feel about her. Somehow she managed to convince him to take a trip with her and also to diss me the day I came back from my family visit.

HE told her how many times we had had sex. Also about an incident where my bf hadn't emptied his trash so I was worried as to when that condom was used. But in hindsight, I also realise he turned down sex with me on a couple of occasions.

My bf tried to frame his dealing with her as "Just friends." And asked me do you mind if I go out with other women but "just as friends."

I started going cool on him and then he started showing me more attention. According to him, there was a point at which he realised she wanted more than friendship and he was no longer interested in her that way.

I can see from the messages between them. She accused him first of leading her on. Then she mentioned that she was dating another guy who was really into her....she didn't want to lead him on....why don't she and my bf date again. Then she told him to drop me because obviously since we weren't having sex, I had no interest in him.

I told my bf that that remark more than anything else is a good reason why I should never have to waste my time with her as once he came clean about her, he wanted to frame her as a friend.

What is not clear to me and I know I will never get the answer from my bf, and that is, was he ever seriously considering dating her again and thought to use my presence as a way to increase her interest in him.

And it is also possible that age and experience had some impact her. The "friend" in question was 29, so not that far away from a college coed lifestyle and beliefs.

In any case, while I am trying to catalogue the acceptable behaviors and boundaries for opposite sex friends, it easy enough to see that that friendship would never make the cut.

Love Song

You know what I dont like? I dont like when people disguise themselves as "friends" when they really have other intentions. Because then it's the people who are honest who get a bad rap for it. People who know me know that I am a social person. When I go to a new place I have to explain myself to people all over again.

My point?? Dont mistake dishonest intentions for the real thing. There is a difference. It would be nice if people stopped lumping us all together.

You can write extremely long posts if you want to about why it wont work for SOME people. But there's a difference between someone with boundaries and good intentions and someone without.

My $0.02

Cee Paul

For the record that I did not mention earlier; my wife and I do have opposite sex friends who are maybe co-workers or neighbors, but they are not people we just run around to the malls & go shopping with or to a ball game or ever hangout with apart from each other.

Love Song

Well is it possible for you to go with them? Have you asked her? What does she think about it?

NextTimeAround

So can you tell us how to differentiate between those who have sincere intentions and those who don't?

Entropy3000

The thing is that most situations that turn into issues are with two people with good intentions. I think having good boundaries can go a long way with this. I suspect for many of us those boundaries would be seen as overly restrictive to many. After all. We are just friends. When folks say this they do mean it at least early on. Sure there are predators but it is not this black and white. You basically have two people who care for each other. They bond. In a very natural way that feels innocent enough. I think those that should be most concerned are the loving, compassionate and caring people. They will be the most vulnerable to getting in over their heads. Then they start justifying their feelings.

I feel the disconnect here is when we say guys will only invest their time in women who interest them. This does not mean they intend to cheat. It makes them a "potential" predator. I guess that is a puzzle for some. It should not be. Attraction is normal. Close freindships are a strong bond and can become in conflict esepcially during marital stress. Marital stress happens. Friends start meeting more needs. There does not have to be an intent to take anything to the next level. The choices that are made are very subtle. Some people can handle this better than others.

I frankly do not have the time to invest in other close relationships beyond my wife and family. Folks in my situation would then be most vulnerable to a workplace EA.

__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."

Entropy3000

So this is a good thing then. Right? Is this something you guys want to do?

__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

No, not in my marriage. My husband fully agrees.

lovelygirl

Just because you meet / go out with a friend of yours [opposite sex] doesn't mean that you're dating her.
It all comes down to your definition of "dating".

Cee Paul

We both agree that it's inappropriate and can be a bad look for a marriage, and not something either one of us would be comfortable with. And we trust each other 1,000% but it's OTHER people no matter who they are that we don't trust, and so why put yourselves and others in an akward situation like that.

Entropy3000

Yes. I am saying it is a date. What is the difference? Intent? How is it not a date? In fact another way of saying you are dating someone is to say you are going out with someone.

Realize that "we are just friends" is what we all say in an EA. And we mean it. To the people involved at least in the early stages they see nothing wrong with seeing each other.

Why would I as a married man want to hangout with a single woman at her apratment without my wife? What needs are being met that a male friend cannot meet? Folks will come up with a whole list of why women can be good friends. I get those needs met by my wife.

Realize also I am speaking as someone who was in an EA. And while everyone is different we can see these same choices being made again and again. I thought I was bullet proof. I thought my character was unbreakable. But what I learned was the power of the brain chemicals. They make you feel everything is ok. People can say, that they are different and take their chances. But look at the divorce rate. Look at the infidelity. Sure there are scummy people in the world. But it is very naive to think that the majority of these people are not just like you and I and made some very poor choices and have very poor boundaries. That said my wife is the one that called me on this, very early. She had every right to do so.

So why are we meeting up with single people? Why are we meeting up with married people? There are nuances to each situation.

Why are the spouses seeking out indiviuduals of the opposite sex for one on one isolated time? Again I have female friends but I do not go over to their homes for one on one time. In my marriage that would be Inapprorpriate, Unfaithful AND Cheating behavior. For some marriages it would be just either Inappropriate or unfaithful. I grant that this is fine in some marriages.

So as someone who is not yet married. Claims to be a virgin. What do you think is appropriate in a marriage? I call this dating but what are you talking about? Do we just call it going out? I guess I hear folks say hanging out.

So you are a wife. What activities are you talking about doing with a single guy? Is it ok for you to go over to his apartment in the evening and hangout? What will you two be doing and / or talking about? Why is he investing his time in you. Are you that awesome that instead of prusuing single women he needs to spend his time with you?

__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."

NextTimeAround

Suppose your definition of dating and his definition of dating differ. Even on relationship message boards that don;t discuss infidelity, there is still a lot of confusion --even among single people "going out" with single people-- what a "date" is. Which then of course leads people to wonder if they're "leading someone on" and whether because of that "they owe that person" something.

You keep assuming that you live in a perfect world where everyone has the same understanding as you do as well as the same intentions.

Entropy3000

I know young women can hangout with guys and consider them friend zoned. They can at the same time be dating ( in their minds ) others.

So I see how some women feel they can continue thier single behavior after marriage.

But again what is this single guy doing hanging out with a now married woman? Alone with her.

So for those rare women at 24 who are no longer virgins, how many of thier close friends have had zero sexual interest.

Is it ok for a women to have "dated" a guy when single and then still hang out with him after marriage?

How about an ex lover?

Is this ok as long as you tell your hubby you are just close friends because you feel that is true ... now?

How would a spouse know if a given friend has been an initmate friend in the past?

Then their are couples who "double date". Cool. Very common. Is it ok for the couples to schedule one on one time with the oppiste sex friend? Just another common scenario. I think there are people who would be ok with this and not with the non mutual friends. A lot of couple pull this off. But it can get very awkward too.

__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."