General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I just don't see it that way. He IS a third party to them. Otherwise, they would be talking with him about it.
It's none of his business if so-and-so is having sexual problems, another is having financial problems, and another is having vaginal itching issues. I do not share my friends' and family's personal issues - they confide in ME.
My husband is not a "third party" he is my equal. My mom is not entitled to 100% of our life. Maybe 25-40%.
I had a good friend, she hated the fact that my SO knew everything....I could have cared less. She is out of my life, and husband is here.
If it were a "secret" than she should have kept it herself.
This is a lot of Hallmark Card Bullsh^t. Everyone has stuff they don't need or want to explain.
My husband and I maintain separate identities outside of being husband and wife. We are not the same person. In order to be interdependent, one has to embrace their independence as well.
So we don't have each other's passwords nor do we read each other's mail. There is no need for that.
I leave my FB and TAM in plain view. My husband can read whatever I write if he wants to; but he chooses to respect my privacy. We are secure enough in our marriage that we don't need to breathe down each other's necks all the time.
I have always kept a private journal over the course of my life. It helps me work out my feelings and reflect. I would be livid if my husband read it because my journal is a part of me that I prefer not to share with ANYONE. Oooh, I must be writing about an affair or something equally sordid right?
Hank, all people who don't share passwords are cheaters? Wow, thanks for telling me that I am unfaithful to my husband. I didn't know.
A healthy adult is a whole person without a partner. I know my momma didn't raise no half a person!
I don't understand the point of aggressively putting down couples who do not share every little thing. We all conduct our marriages as we see fit and every couple has their own comfort level with privacy. Wouldn't it make more sense just to mind your own marriage, instead of telling others what they should be doing?
I agree that each person and couple is different in what they are willing to share and not willing to share. If your not comfortable with sharing everything that doesn't make you a cheater... and if you are comfortable with sharing everything with your spouse that doesn't mean your breathing down each others necks... Each person/couple is unique. That's where the saying "To each their own" comes in i think.
Heck, I am legally barred from sharing work emails with my spouse.
I think I'm morally bound to protect the confidences of my friends. That's not me choosing them over my spouse, IMO.
My husband and I maintain separate identities outside of being husband and wife. We are not the same person. In order to be interdependent, one has to embrace their independence as well.
So we don't have each other's passwords nor do we read each other's mail. There is no need for that.
I leave my FB and TAM in plain view. My husband can read whatever I write if he wants to; but he chooses to respect my privacy. We are secure enough in our marriage that we don't need to breathe down each other's necks all the time.
I have always kept a private journal over the course of my life. It helps me work out my feelings and reflect. I would be livid if my husband read it because my journal is a part of me that I prefer not to share with ANYONE. Oooh, I must be writing about an affair or something equally sordid right?
Hank, all people who don't share passwords are cheaters? Wow, thanks for telling me that I am unfaithful to my husband. I didn't know.
A healthy adult is a whole person without a partner. I know my momma didn't raise no half a person!
I don't understand the point of aggressively putting down couples who do not share every little thing. We all conduct our marriages as we see fit and every couple has their own comfort level with privacy. Wouldn't it make more sense just to mind your own marriage, instead of telling others what they should be doing?
It's not that not sharing makes you a cheater. It's that you have arranged for yourself an environment where it is possible at all.
I know it's a hard concept to grasp. I will revert to debate through anecdotes.
Do you see a single person that's gone through infidelity on TAM that DOESN'T advocate 100% transparency and doesn't wish they had instituted BEFORE there were problems?
I've said it before, it's really easy to not care about privacy before you cheat/get cheated on. No one thinks it will happen to them. Everyone is surprised and feels foolish after it happens. I used to think like you, then I got hit with a ton of bricks and realized I was not thinking properly. Hopefully you can learn from our mistakes.
You can reduce your risk of alcohol poisoning by 99% if you never have more than one drink. You can reduce your risk of being in an unfaithful relationship by orders of magnitude, if you have a transparent marriage.
I grew up seeing husbands in my immediate and extended family enjoy cheating, so I certainly know that it can happen to us. I don't worry about it because I will not tolerate infidelity.
Did you ever consider that a spouse can have extra cell phones or FB accounts that they simply don't share? Their partners may believe that they have access to everything, but the cheating spouse could be hiding even more. It happens all the time. Unfaithful spouses get P.O boxes to receive cell phone and credit card bills. Meanwhile, their poor naive partners have a false sense of security because they get to look in the cheater's other email.
My point is, it is ALWAYS possible to cheat no matter how transparent you think your marriage is. My father did not have a cell phone when he cheated on my mother. He called his OW from our house my mom was at work. This went on for years. Neither of my parents had email or Facebook and they opened each other's lettermail all the time.
I found your post very assumptive and condescending. Perhaps YOU are the one who is not thinking properly if you believe that total transparency can head off affairs. People will always find a way to do something wrong if they really want to.
I was responding to Hank's blanket statement that husband and wives who do not share everything are cheaters.
Hank, all people who don't share passwords are cheaters? Wow, thanks for telling me that I am unfaithful to my husband. I didn't know.
Oh dear.. that comment was tongue in cheek, thus the smiley. You need to read up on rhetological fallacies. I never said you were unfaithful to your husband, and to draw that conclusion from my comment is illogical.
There are so many personal experiences on this site about spouses who are fiercely (read 'fiercely') protective of their cell phone usage, messaging, etc, and it turned out they were having an affair. When someone is suddenly so protective of that, it is a red flag. Your mileage may vary, but don't assume the rest of the world is or should be like you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstYearDown
Wouldn't it make more sense just to mind your own marriage, instead of telling others what they should be doing?
You do realize that is the point of this message board, to Talk About Marriage? The title is kind of a big heads up.
My point is, it is ALWAYS possible to cheat no matter how transparent you think your marriage is. .
There are no garantees in life. There can be infidelity in the best marriages. In marriages where needs have been met and there is sincere love for each other. But the risks are less so.
However, this does not mean that a spouse should not meet needs. It does not mean that spouses should not be transaparent. It does not mean that spouses should not do POJA ( Policy Of Joint Agreement ). It does not mean that spouses should not have agreed upon boundaries. Caring for a marriage lowers the risks. Should here can be read as "well advised to".
I mean folks can have an open marriage if they want. I would say they would be well advised not to. Some would argue here.
You can disagree but I feel most infidelity starts with an EA between people who do not intend to cheat. Transaparency allows many things. Not the least of which another perspective on the activities of their spouse. It also allows you to see what thier friends and colleagues are communicating to them. This informtion is helpful to spouses who are actively caring for their marriage.
Sorry but it seems we have tunnel vision often and our spouses can see things in our and other peoples behavior that are a potential danger for a marriage. It seems a natural part of the mating game I am realizing. We bond with people and see the good in them. It feels natural and good. But our spouse is not so close to the forest and they can see what is going on. They can have a view that is not clouded by dopamine and oxytocin as we are when we are bonded to others. We have that glow about things and see things in an altered view.
We are seeing in other discussions that it is common for many women especially to be very comfortable with close male friends. Many husbands look at this and see their wife becoming bonded to and intimate with another man. So their is a proclivity here already for many. It would seem only right that the husband would be privvy to the communications that are had between these folks. Others can see these conversations in a different light. Spouse can also know when there are fishing attempts and by whom. Whether exes are being engaged. Whether boundaries are sliding. These can be subtle things. Spouse don't usually look unless their are other signs.
So it has little to do with preventing someone who wants to cheat from cheating. It has to do with monitoring inappropriate and unfaithful behavior before that happenes. I understand this dynamic all to well. It does make it harder for a cheating spouse to keep it a secret from the other spouse for a long stretch. A spouse can see whether or not their spouse is sharing marital discussions with another man or whether he is doing so with her. At what level flirting is going on. Flirting is always there. We hope at a low level.
I have seen this argument about cheating with folks who like to sleep over their opposite sex friends houses often. That this should be fine as if they wanted to cheat they could at anytime. So that not being able to sleep over their place of stay with them for a week long on a visit is a total lack of trust. I see this as extremely poor boundaries and not that different from privacy. Having privacy is the isolation portion of Instigtion, Isolation and Escalation. It looks to me like a spouse is wanting to be isolated with others from their spouse. It has that appearance.
So just saying if a spouse wants to cheat they will cheat is not engaging the marriage in a partnership. It is blind ambivalent trust. Again it is not just about the spouse themselves. Their spouse deserves to know if someone is pressuring them to be unfaithful. Many folks will not end a relationship with a friend who pressures them. They may enjoy being pursued or have a false sense of security.
Some of us have a different view of a partnership. Having secrets from a partner is very dangerous to any such relationship IMO.
Transparency enables trust. It also allows a spouse to look out for their partner. I think this is much more needed than dealing with people who are out to cheat. Privacy does allow a spouse to commnuciate and behave in ways that their spouse would not approve.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 05-04-2012 at 10:03 AM.
Oh dear.. that comment was tongue in cheek, thus the smiley. You need to read up on rhetological fallacies. I never said you were unfaithful to your husband, and to draw that conclusion from my comment is illogical.
There are so many personal experiences on this site about spouses who are fiercely (read 'fiercely') protective of their cell phone usage, messaging, etc, and it turned out they were having an affair. When someone is suddenly so protective of that, it is a red flag. Your mileage may vary, but don't assume the rest of the world is or should be like you.
You do realize that is the point of this message board, to Talk About Marriage? The title is kind of a big heads up.
Those who love to talk down to others are usually the most ignorant. If you were as wise as you think you are, you would remember that on the internet, we cannot see or hear each other. I cannot tell if you are joking and there is nothing illogical about believing that someone means what they have typed. I can't believe that you do not realize how easy to mistake tone without verbal communication or seeing body language. Your smilie could have been rueful or ironic.
I was under the impression that TAM was about sharing and helping others with their marriage problems or speaking of solutions. I wasn't aware that the purpose of this message board, was to denounce and insult those who may not always do what works for most members. Please remember that I am not the one who begin this thread, harshly judging couples for how much they share in a marriage. It was quite the opposite. I wouldn't dare start a thread with words such as "All couples who share everything must be...(insert horrible trait or behavior)" That would be very inappropriate.
Even the member who started this thread admitted that people can always find some way to be unfaithful. What does that tell you? Re-read my story about my father cheating by using the phone while his wife was not home. If you think that a "transparent" spouse can't get another cell phone or mailbox, you are not informed about the obvious ways around so-called transparency.
No matter how private my husband and I are, my morals keep me from being unfaithful in any way. One of the few benefits of growing up in infidelity is seeing the damage it does. My husband was the first to know when a man tried to get me into bed with him, even though my hubby did not have access to my bbm. My husband and I agree not to have opposite sex friends because it can lead to EA's.
I hope that my husband is always faithful to me. However, I am not naive enough to believe that he would/could never cheat. I don't put being unfaithful past anyone, even those that claim to have no privacy.
Those who love to talk down to others are usually the most ignorant. If you were as wise as you think you are, you would remember that on the internet, we cannot see or hear each other. I cannot tell if you are joking and there is nothing illogical about believing that someone means what they have typed. I can't believe that you do not realize how easy to mistake tone without verbal communication or seeing body language. Your smilie could have been rueful or ironic.
I was under the impression that TAM was about sharing and helping others with their marriage problems or speaking of solutions. I wasn't aware that the purpose of this message board, was to denounce and insult those who may not always do what works for most members. Please remember that I am not the one who begin this thread, harshly judging couples for how much they share in a marriage. It was quite the opposite. I wouldn't dare start a thread with words such as "All couples who share everything must be...(insert horrible trait or behavior)" That would be very inappropriate.
No matter how private my husband and I are, my morals keep me from being unfaithful in any way. One of the few benefits of growing up in infidelity is seeing the damage it does. My husband was the first to know when a man tried to get me into bed with him, even though my hubby did not have access to my bbm. My husband and I agree not to have opposite sex friends because it can lead to EA's.
I hope that my husband is always faithful to me. However, I am not naive enough to believe that he would/could never cheat. I don't put being unfaithful past anyone, even those that claim to have no privacy.
Live and let live.
I haven't talked down to you at all. I'm just trying to engage in some meaningful discussion on the topic. I'll agree that on the Internet it may not have come across that I was being facetious, and you may have misunderstood my post. However, in no way did I say you were cheating on your husband, and I feel hurt that you would put those words in my mouth.
I tried to see what you meant about people being insulting, but looking back at lovelygirl's original post, I really don't see anything other than her asking a genuine question. Perhaps if you could point out an example to me, it would help.
The point here is to help us understand each other, but I really feel like you're denouncing me instead of trying to understand my position here, thereby doing exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing.
Telling me the obvious title of the forum and asking that I read up about rhetoric is condescending and rude. I suspect that you know this but now you are trying friendlier approach because I called you in your BS. You DID say that all those who do not share everything must be cheating, so the only words in your mouth are your own! I clearly misunderstood your post, but I was only going on what you said.
Lovelygirl implied that wanting privacy means that someone is hiding something. That opinion has been shared with many other members. As a wife who does not share everything with her husband, I find that attitude shortsighted and insulting.
Lovelygirl implied that wanting privacy means that someone is hiding something. That opinion has been shared with many other members. As a wife who does not share everything with her husband, I find that attitude shortsighted and insulting.
I didn't say all those who hid things are cheaters.
I meant to say when you hid things chances of you being a cheater are higher. [NOT YOU PERSONALLY, I was talking in general]
So my sentence was not absolute.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
87Likes
Re: the big deal about privacy! 
I can't believe that you do not realize how easy to mistake tone without verbal communication or seeing body language. Your smilie could have been rueful or ironic. 
