Gaia

which is why i feel NOW that it's 50/50 ...

Pandakiss

BTW...I have 4 kids. A 16 year old and triplets. We survived loss of many jobs, having no car, losing apts, being homeless, cheating, horrible friends, controlling moms...

Living through abuse, over coming resentment, drifting apart emotionally...

In my eyes, my husband is special. We are fast approaching our (I think) 22 years of us being together, and later this year it will be our 12th wedding anniversary.

We are special. Why not. If I choose my husband to be my person, instead of my kids, how is it deranged. I can speak about this point of view since we have kids, and have been together over half our lives.

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yami ni madoishi awarena kage yo
hito o kizutsuke otoshimete
ts umi ni oboreshi go no tama
i ppen shinde miru?

Gaia

TRIPLETS!!! wow.... and here i am fearing i may have twins!!

EleGirl

The marriage comes first as a strong, passionate marriage can provide a good foundation for the children.

This does not mean that the children are left uncared for or sacrificed for the marriage. It's a delicate balance.. for example when a child is ill the child's needs become very important and take precidence until the child is well. And both parents need to be mature enough to handle this.

From time to time this topic comes up here and the responses are usually about the same even if the posters are different. What does not get discussed in detail is what does it mean to put the marriage first while still balancing this with the care and love it takes to raise a child?I’ll add one to start this.

A couple should spend about 15 hours together doing date-like things… just the two of them… each week. So how do parents get this time with demanding little ones around. Parents are often also struggling with budget issues as well so just hiring a nanny is not the answer for most parents.

One way is to set an early bed time for the children. Once the children are in bed and asleep the parents can spend an hour or two a day together. This time should be sacred.

On the weekends the parents can get a baby sitter and have a weekly date. If they cannot afford a sitter, ask a family member or ask friends to swap babysitting time so that both couples can get time out.


Anyone want to chime in with some examples?

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Surviving An Affair - What Are Plan A and Plan B? 180 for Betrayed Spouses


To Create A Passionate Marriage - Five Steps to Romantic Love His Needs, Her Needs Love Busters

Gaia

With mine and my hubbys case... we can't afford a nanny/babysitter nor is any of our family really capable or available to take care of the kids soooo we decided that when were able to go out it will be something along the lines of.... Going out to dinner (Golden corral probably) and going to a movie after... (Something the kids can sit and watch too) All our friends are either to far away or.... in my hubbys case.. already full with tending to other peoples kids to really take on our own.. nor do we want to burden them with two added kids. Another thing we plan on doing is going out on a picnic later on... which would give the kids plenty of time to run around and play and us time to sit together, talk, cuddle, ect.

jaquen

Where is the "love" button when you need one?

Thank you for sharing.

EleGirl

What I have seen in a lot of marriages, to include mine to my son's father, is that the children are put first... far above the marrital needs.

We see a lot of men here complain that once their first child was born their wife seems to have checked out of the marriage and only cares about the child. This is not healthy for the marriage or for the child.

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Surviving An Affair - What Are Plan A and Plan B? 180 for Betrayed Spouses


To Create A Passionate Marriage - Five Steps to Romantic Love His Needs, Her Needs Love Busters

Gaia

I agree... I was the same when I had my first as well... then the second came along and changed my viewpoint over these past two years...

jaquen

You guys are incredible. Thanks for offering practical advice on what to actually consider doing to maintain our marriage after the kids have come. It's nice to get out of just theory (which is interesting to discuss), and actually have some real tools to pull out when it comes to scheduling "us" time.

I think it's a mentality. I have met people, and indeed have people in my life, for whom the kids have become their total focus, the glue that holds them together. One, or both, have elevated their children to basically "soulmate" status. We'd like to do all we can to fight the good fight, and love our growing family, but still recognize that we are the center, and impetus, behind said family.

It just seems rather silly for us to lose sight of the sole reason the family exists in the first place. We view marriage as foundation for our children, not a mere road to get to our children. Hopefully it is a perspective we can hold on to in the face of falling head over heels in love with our children LOL (which I know we will)!

I just love her so much. I do not want to lose her, or become a cautionary tale of what happens when you basically marry your kids.

Lyris

This is something I have really struggled with. To give my background, my husband and I have been together for more than 20 years, married for nearly 10. We were high school sweethearts. I have adored him for more than half my life, he is the love of my life and I have no doubt I will love him till the day I die. We have two daughters, 5 and 2.

Before I had my first daughter, I could have written your OP. 'it will be a different love, not more' 'why should I have to choose?' 'the marriage is the most important thing' 'we've been through so much, we'll be fine'. The thing is, you don't know. You just don't know what having a baby is like. All is changed, changed utterly. Your whole life is different, and if you get a baby who doesn't sleep and cries a lot, like I did, then life will be much sucker than your pre-child life.

Babies need more. There needs are bigger, more intense and more important than an adult's because they can't wait and their brains and characters are forming. They're learning to trust and how the world works, so the stakes are really high. And the love is different, it is intensely protective, much more primal and somehow more part of the fabric of your soul than the love for a partner, no matter how beloved he or she is. Plus you are exhausted and anxious and resentful that life has changed so much and there is nothing to be done. Nothing else you do has basically no escape clause, if you're a decent human being anyway. You can leave jobs, divorce a husband, move house, but parenting is forever and parenting a baby is relentless.

I remember through the haze of sleep-deprivation and resentment, looking at my husband asleep as I was dragging myself out of bed at 6am yet again and thinking "I *hate* you.". This man I had adored for more than a decade, and that was the topmost thought in my mind.

Looking back, we were both depressed and in shock for about 2 years after our first daughter was born. I'm amazed we made it through, but very thankful. And the thing is, pretty well every couple I know well enough to discuss these things with felt the same way for the first year. I don't expect you to really believe any of this applies to you. I sure didn't. I heard negative things about parenthood and I'd nod and act like was considering it, but secretly I was thinking, "yeah, but not for me. It won't be like that for me.". It was.

And I didn't even have it that hard. My daughter was healthy and perfect, she wasnt twins, I had no problems with breastfeeding, I didn't have a Caesarian, I had 12 months leave, my husband had 6 weeks, my mum was supportive, although my dad was being treated for two kinds on cancer during my daughters first year. And yet.

My daughters are five and two now and things are much, much better. I can truly say now that I am very glad I have them, I would choose it again, even knowing how hard it was. I wouldn't have said that 18 months ago. I would have said that although I loved them with the power of a thousand suns, if I could go back in time I would make a different choice. If my husband and I hadn't been able to pull our relationship out of the fire I would still feel that way now.

But things are different. *I* am different. Motherhood has changed me, permanently. Fatherhood has changed my husband. Nora Ephron said that children are like a hand grenade thrown into a marriage. When the dust has settled, things will be different. Not necessarily worse, or better, but definitely not the same.

So sure, the marriage should come first. Obviously. But add in exhaustion, resentment, plain old lack of time, anxiety, differences of opinion, trying to integrate this incredible, over powering love you feel for a baby into your relationship and it is easier said than done. Practical suggestions; spending an hour after the kids are in bed. Again, that might not be so easy if you get a difficult sleeper or twins, or a baby with special needs. Date nights are good, but my husband and I don't leave our girls with babysitters yet, so we have a romantic dinner with wine etc every Saturday night in our own lounge room after they're asleep.
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jaquen

No, it's actually quite the opposite. This is exactly what I want/need to hear. We are both very well aware that our perspective exists in a vacuum, and that the added, crucial ingredient of an actual child can, and likely will, change everything. We're trying to balance realism with idealism. A little from column A, and column B.

So it's good to hear all perspectives. Especially since we're thinking of eventually adopting an older child, from within the "system", which presents it's own very different, unique challenges.

I know parents who've managed to pull it off, and others who've lost their way as the child(ren) become the primary recipients of their love and affection.

Just trying to get as many views as I can.

that_girl

The big thing for us is to keep dating.

Yes, it's difficult to slink away or go out when the kids are little, so many date nights were at home when the kids went to bed. We ALWAYS made sure the kids were in bed with enough time for us to hang out afterwards. I hear of people letting their kids stay up til 10 or 11 and I think, "where's the 'you' time??" Our kids were in bed by 8 when they were small and we go to bed at 10.

Now, our older daughter stays up until 9, but she knows that "family time" ends at 8:30 and that's her time to unwind and hubs and i hang out until 10 together.

Now that she's almost 13, we have her babysit (pay her 10 bucks ) so we can go to dinner. We leave when the younger one goes down at 8ish...and are home by 11. It's good for her to learn that responsibility (I was babysitting for 3 different families on a regular basis at age 12 to 17), and it gives us "date nights". We go to places close to home and we text her to make sure she's ok. usually she has a friend stay the night with her when we go out.

But it's all about COMMITTING to making time for each other. Sure, newborns take up a lot of time, but people need to learn to put the baby down and pick each other up. When our younger one was new, we took every nap, every 'quiet time' to hang out. Now, we look forward to bedtime for the kids because we know it's OUR time.

Our issues didn't come from our children. It came from my own issues..and his own issues...not about our kids. Thankfully, we've worked those out.

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tacoma

That_Girl has the key I think.

I`m sitting here reading about how hard kids are and while it`s not easy I don`t recall it being THAT difficult.
Apparently we were lucky.

We had no support system with three kids(Two from my wifes previous relationship) and simply could not go out on anything that resembled a date night.

We did what That_Girl did, the kids were in bed as early as possible and we had date nights at home.
Saturday night became our salvation and was something we both looked forward to all week.

Now those kids are old enough to be left alone (The two boys are adults and our daughter is 11) we still do Saturday night the same way we always did at home alone with no distractions.

It`s important that the kids are put on the back burner at least once or twice a week to stay intimate and connected.

that_girl

OMG! We are the parents until 8:30...then we just can't wait to tuck our little one into bed and kiss our older one goodnight. Their doors close and WOOT! We are a couple again.

Gives us something to look forward to. We love our kids, and we're raising them the best we can, but they know the sun doesn't rise or set on their behinds, and I think it keeps them grounded.

I have always been in the mindset that I didn't have children so I could have friends. I had children and I'm raising them to be good humans and adults. I am still 'me'...and Hubs is still 'him'. When the Mommy and Daddy hats come off, it's just us again.

I could be in the minority about that, but honestly, as much as I love my children, they are not my whole life. And they shouldn't be, imo. I'm raising them to be productive adults so someday they can leave our home and be on their own and raise their own families. When that happens, i don't want to look across the couch and wonder who the hell that man is...nor do i want to look in the mirror and wonder who the hell I am.

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that_girl

Just to add: I don't mean we stop being parents at 8:30 No. we are still parents.

But we stop censoring ourselves. We stop being good role models. We stop managing and running the house. We stop worrying about bills/kids/money/house/cleaning, etc. We grab a beer, light up a smoke, and we hang in the garage (where I am now on a couch) and game. Right now Hubs is in the "zone"...killing zombies! The game is WAY too intense for me...so I'm here, but i can't watch the whole game. Gives me nightmares.

But I can be ME now. Cuss, burp and not say excuse me, grab my Hubs' junk (well, not right now cause he's in the "zone" and we want to pass this game ) and in a bit, we'll go to bed and snuggle...and more.

The thing is, you cannot forget who you were when you married and why you married them.

We forgot for a while. the stress of everything and our own issues plagued us.

No longer.

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