General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Thanks, we're in counseling now. My thought is this and let me know if it doesn't make sense. My wife really feels I betrayed her by spying. I feel she really betrayed me by lying. I am thinking about using this as an opportunity to clear the deck so to speak.
In essence we're even. No more spying, no more lying. We start at ground zero with a new understanding and everything out in the open. Like I said, I for the first time in my marriage know for sure what is going on. She for the first time knows that I know her secrets and that must be somewhat refreshing.
Is this really something we can build from or am I fooling myself? The biggest thing I have to figure out is what is the consequence if she lies again? It must be swift, severe, rock her world.
I think it COULD work, but I don't think it's gonna happen without transparency.
I made that mistake, and I wouldn't suggest it. The solution to someone lying to you is not less accountability, it's more. She needs to invite you into her life and I think you should tell her that trust is only going to be built when she stops being defensive and starts being an open book.
People that don't have **** to hide don't need to hide things.
I think my wife has done a great job with this. I mean every time I ask to see something she throws it all on the table, "Look through it, I have nothing to hide, I know I haven't done anything wrong."
Coming from someone who called me a controlling spy a few months ago, I think it shows the change in mindset someone will have when they are no longer living in lies. If your wife is resisting the transparency, she's probably not ready to give up the secret life.
Thanks, we're in counseling now. My thought is this and let me know if it doesn't make sense. My wife really feels I betrayed her by spying. I feel she really betrayed me by lying. I am thinking about using this as an opportunity to clear the deck so to speak.
In essence we're even. No more spying, no more lying. We start at ground zero with a new understanding and everything out in the open. Like I said, I for the first time in my marriage know for sure what is going on. She for the first time knows that I know her secrets and that must be somewhat refreshing.
Is this really something we can build from or am I fooling myself? The biggest thing I have to figure out is what is the consequence if she lies again? It must be swift, severe, rock her world.
I think this is another chicken or the egg scenarios. Had you not had a gut feeling that she was witholding something from you, it probably wouldn't have occurred to you to snoop. I know this is certainly the case in my relationship...
I think starting from ground zero and moving forward, if possible, is a sensible plan, and I wish you both well.
I don't see anything wrong with snooping in a marriage. You have a right to know what your wife is up to as well as she has a right to know what you're up to. If the communication has broken down then snooping is the only way.
Snooping and cheating are not the problem in your marriage. It sounds like there is resentment that both of you are feeling. You both have to find out what they are and let go of them. Does your wife really want this marriage to work? If she does she has to take responsibility for her part. How did your session go last night?
There is nothing wrong with a woman -- especially a SAHM -- having a bank account of her own. It is, in fact, advisable. She doesn't need to have to depend on you for every dime -- and what if you up and leave her?
Secondly, any man who put a keylogger on my computer would get the riot act read loud and clear. That's a betrayal of her privacy. You just assumed that a) she was cheating and b) that you had the right to look over her private emails etc. She's your wife, not your slave, not your child. You need to work out the issues in your marriage by mature communication, not by snooping.
I don't blame her for being mad. You were in the wrong.
I know I am bucking the trend here, so flame away, I can take it
There is nothing wrong with a woman -- especially a SAHM -- having a bank account of her own. It is, in fact, advisable. She doesn't need to have to depend on you for every dime -- and what if you up and leave her?
Secondly, any man who put a keylogger on my computer would get the riot act read loud and clear. That's a betrayal of her privacy. You just assumed that a) she was cheating and b) that you had the right to look over her private emails etc. She's your wife, not your slave, not your child. You need to work out the issues in your marriage by mature communication, not by snooping.
I don't blame her for being mad. You were in the wrong.
If I had to guess, I'd either say that you are single and not familiar with what it's like to be married, or in a marriage and actively hiding things from your spouse (like talking crap about him behind his back?).
I know I am bucking the trend here, so flame away, I can take it
You're bucking the trend because what you propose isn't healthy, it's deceit.
If she wants a separate bank account, then fine, get a separate account, but it should not be done in secrecy.
Would you feel the same about a man having a secret account he tucks money away into? In a marriage with joint finances, it is literally stealing from your mate when you hide money without telling them. Especially in a marriage where there are debts and he is using his money to pay them down in good faith that it is the only resources they have.
In marriage there is no such thing as a private bank account, if there is a divorce, the money is split evenly anyway. It's called community property, and withholding the information is not just unethical, it's a crime.
As for snooping, marriage is about opening the book and sharing life with someone else. Secrets lead to mistrust. If you don't have anything to hide, it shouldn't bother you. What would you want to tell someone else that you wouldn't be comfortable sharing with your spouse? If there is anything, outside of surprise parties, it means you are keeping vital information from your spouse about your feelings or relationship that he doesn't know.
There's a million threads about it on TAM, there's a reason you're thinking is in the minority.
If I had to guess, I'd say that you are either single and don't know what it's like to be married. Or married, and actively hiding things from your spouse (like talking crap about him behind his back?).
In one of our attempts at reconciliation, my wife confessed to me it was tempting to take the $80-$100.00 I routinely handed her and "set aside" $20 or $40 "just in case".
There is nothing wrong with a woman -- especially a SAHM -- having a bank account of her own. It is, in fact, advisable. She doesn't need to have to depend on you for every dime -- and what if you up and leave her?
Secondly, any man who put a keylogger on my computer would get the riot act read loud and clear. That's a betrayal of her privacy. You just assumed that a) she was cheating and b) that you had the right to look over her private emails etc. She's your wife, not your slave, not your child. You need to work out the issues in your marriage by mature communication, not by snooping.
I don't blame her for being mad. You were in the wrong.
I know I am bucking the trend here, so flame away, I can take it
My wife took thousands that I gave her to pay off debt and secretly put it into a bank account that she lied about having. I snooped originally because she would not communicate what her feelings were and I knew I had to rule out a third party in our marriage in order to try and fix it. Given that foundation, tell me where I was wrong.
There is nothing wrong with a woman -- especially a SAHM -- having a bank account of her own. It is, in fact, advisable. She doesn't need to have to depend on you for every dime -- and what if you up and leave her?
Secondly, any man who put a keylogger on my computer would get the riot act read loud and clear. That's a betrayal of her privacy. You just assumed that a) she was cheating and b) that you had the right to look over her private emails etc. She's your wife, not your slave, not your child. You need to work out the issues in your marriage by mature communication, not by snooping.
I don't blame her for being mad. You were in the wrong.
I know I am bucking the trend here, so flame away, I can take it
Wait you have no problem with a secret bank account with a pile of money in it,but you do have a problem with him checking up on if sheis cheating. Wow, by any chance are you also of the opionion that it's ok for a person to step out and have some strange sex so long as they come home to sleep? Posted via Mobile Device
Paul,
Just one question and one observation for you.
Is it correct that your W claims simultaneously that:
- She somehow doesn't trust you emotionally - trust you to treat her well AND
- Is determined to remain a stay at home wife and continue to be totally financially dependent on you
There are other threads like that.
This is what stuns me about this type situation:
Good spouse: I resent you and am not sure how long (if ever) it will take to get over it
Naughty spouse: Sorry - what exactly did I do that was so awful? And if it was so bad, WHY didn't you say something at the time?
Good spouse: I don't know exactly what you did - but I resent you for it and you need to make up for it.
To be fair - to your W - I believe she wants a good marriage. I also believe that she and the therapist somehow have decided that YOU are the sole reason for any marital discord and somehow need to "figure out" how to make it better. The fact that your W takes no responsibility for the situation, the resolution or acknowledges any concrete steps she should take makes this a very difficult problem to solve.
Be careful going down this path. I do believe you truly know what you need to change/fix. I also believe that if she gets to skate this way the subtext is "she deserves a better partner - and you don't deserve her". The underlying mechanics of that are frighteningly simple. ALL the good things you do - get discounted down to zero. ONLY your flaws and mistakes get accounted for.
I will describe the "memory tape" that plays in my head for you.
ME: In a bad place due to stress, general irritation with life. Suddenly a stream of "mean things" my W has done to me flood into my head. I let the stream run for a while and then I stop it. And redirect my memories to the hundreds - no thousands - of kind, decent and loving things she has done for me. And after a while I shrug internally. Because the good outweighs the bad by a giant amount......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulination
Thanks, we're in counseling now. My thought is this and let me know if it doesn't make sense. My wife really feels I betrayed her by spying. I feel she really betrayed me by lying. I am thinking about using this as an opportunity to clear the deck so to speak.
In essence we're even. No more spying, no more lying. We start at ground zero with a new understanding and everything out in the open. Like I said, I for the first time in my marriage know for sure what is going on. She for the first time knows that I know her secrets and that must be somewhat refreshing.
Is this really something we can build from or am I fooling myself? The biggest thing I have to figure out is what is the consequence if she lies again? It must be swift, severe, rock her world.
Paul,
Just one question and one observation for you.
Is it correct that your W claims simultaneously that:
- She somehow doesn't trust you emotionally - trust you to treat her well AND
- Is determined to remain a stay at home wife and continue to be totally financially dependent on you
There are other threads like that.
This is what stuns me about this type situation:
Good spouse: I resent you and am not sure how long (if ever) it will take to get over it
Naughty spouse: Sorry - what exactly did I do that was so awful? And if it was so bad, WHY didn't you say something at the time?
Good spouse: I don't know exactly what you did - but I resent you for it and you need to make up for it.
To be fair - to your W - I believe she wants a good marriage. I also believe that she and the therapist somehow have decided that YOU are the sole reason for any marital discord and somehow need to "figure out" how to make it better. The fact that your W takes no responsibility for the situation, the resolution or acknowledges any concrete steps she should take makes this a very difficult problem to solve.
Be careful going down this path. I do believe you truly know what you need to change/fix. I also believe that if she gets to skate this way the subtext is "she deserves a better partner - and you don't deserve her". The underlying mechanics of that are frighteningly simple. ALL the good things you do - get discounted down to zero. ONLY your flaws and mistakes get accounted for.
I will describe the "memory tape" that plays in my head for you.
ME: In a bad place due to stress, general irritation with life. Suddenly a stream of "mean things" my W has done to me flood into my head. I let the stream run for a while and then I stop it. And redirect my memories to the hundreds - no thousands - of kind, decent and loving things she has done for me. And after a while I shrug internally. Because the good outweighs the bad by a giant amount......
This is what’s happening in MC and it’s what happens between toxic friends. It happened to me and my wife. My younger son is her toxic friend. All they ever do is talk about the bad, never the good. And if there’s not enough bad, they make it up as they go along. It’s like frenzied, possessed feeding each trying to outdo the other!
The longer this goes on, the worse Paulination will be painted, the worse he will look in their eyes and the more there will be to get “undone”.
It’s like having a GREAT BIG SHADOW put over you, which while you are with them you simply cannot get out from under of NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!.
I literally wrenched myself away from the shadow my wife and son painted over me. And now I’m out of it, in the sunshine looking back. And from this type of perspective I can more or less see it all. Or, at least as much as I need to see.
And the really strange twist in all of this?
After a year or so of separation my wife concluded that she now feels bad because I was more concerned with keeping her happy than she was concerned with keeping me happy! It’s what happens with resentful people. They slowly but surely withdraw the loving things (that made me happy) they used to do. I was never resentful (I sure could have been) so I never withdrew my love!
And another really strange twist in all of this?
She wants back with me. But SHE has CONDITIONS! It really is all quite unbelievable.
Paulination, I hope the above somehow helps you. I really do think that while you are “there” you’re never ever going to be appreciated. It’s not until she’s lost you that she’ll appreciate the things you did for her.
I still think she's totally bored and unhappy. Not much you can do about that, she has to be willing to stop living in fantasyland and do something productive with her life. Not enough drama being a SAHM, soccer is done for the year?
I know you think she is busy and has a fulfulling life and hobbies.
Seems like they are just time fillers, really. Otherwise she wouldn't be acting out the way she is.
Paul, is this MC actually legitimately certified in Marriage Counseling? I'm a broken record on this forum when it comes to this factoid but I think it's important - About 85% of private counseling practices claim to offer MC services but have not actually studied any course work and are not certified in Marriage Counseling.
Are you sure this MC is one of the 15% who is certified??? It sounds like she's not... and it could be the big difference between making or breaking your relationship at this point.
There is nothing wrong with a woman -- especially a SAHM -- having a bank account of her own. It is, in fact, advisable. She doesn't need to have to depend on you for every dime -- and what if you up and leave her?
Secondly, any man who put a keylogger on my computer would get the riot act read loud and clear. That's a betrayal of her privacy. You just assumed that a) she was cheating and b) that you had the right to look over her private emails etc. She's your wife, not your slave, not your child. You need to work out the issues in your marriage by mature communication, not by snooping.
I don't blame her for being mad. You were in the wrong.
I know I am bucking the trend here, so flame away, I can take it
Ordinarily, I would agree that snooping is wrong. However, if one party is refusing to engage about what is wrong in a relationship, I believe it can be appropriate for the other party (who is desperate to save the relationship) to use any means at their disposal to find out what is wrong. Had the OP's wife communicated with him like an adult, he mightn't have been driven to doing this.
Of course a SAHM is entitled to her own bank account, but not at the expense of the family finances. The OP's wife opened a secret bank account without his knowledge, and squirrelled away large sums of money without consulting him.
Well she is in absolute blame shifting and gaslighting mode tonight. We got into a slight tiff about nothing in particular and she suddenly started to cuss me out. I said "where the f&*ck is this coming from?" and she said "because I'm pissed that you spied on me".
I tried to explain the logic of me spying and basically she said that our relationship will never be the same because I betrayed her trust. I reminded her of the lies and she either denies them or minimizes them. She says she told me about the extra bank account and that I am too stupid to remember that. I kept pointing out that it wasn't true and she was lying now and she just go more pissed.
And when I say pissed, I mean pathological. She told me she hated me, doesn't want to be married to me, wants to leave and doesn't care if she dies. She drives away and then shows back up 20 minutes later accusing me of taking her thyroid medicine so she'll get fat. This is hell.
I'm less concerned about her and more concerned about my kids. I am taking the hard stance of "if you want to leave, then leave" and all that does is make her make her more pissed and crazy. She just left again. I don't know what to do. God, tonight sucks and I have to work tomorrow. How can a woman with no options and a husband that treats her like gold be such a b#$tch.
36Likes
Re: Caught Snooping 
