iheartlife

Please explain to me what you define as, "act as if she's cheated." Just rephrase what you mean by those words using different ones, it will help me understand what you are trying to say.

As far at the titles--5 Love Languages has a free questionnaire on the book's website--have her take the quiz tonight. It will give you a jumpstart on MC.

The other two books also have free questionnaires on the marriage builders website, but they are much longer. If you can get her to take them (Her Needs and Love Busters) you will make a lot of progress.

(again, all bets are off if there is a third party involved).

iheartlife

Just bringing this forward so you see it, too.

Lon

I agree with others, almost certainly there is an OM. But even if there isnt an OM she is checking out of the marriage - she is going through the motions of pretending to care about it, staying there, going to MC in order to preserve whatever benefits she gets from it (things like have a free nanny for her kids and takes care of all the domestic duties and financial responsibilities while she pursues her happiness alone as she likes).

The cruelest part of it is when a WW checks out of the marriage and loses the attraction to you, anything kind and generous you do only makes you look weaker and more pathetic in her eyes, when you allow yourself to be used, or she perceives at some level that she is getting away with using you, you've lost her respect.

The catch is that the only way you gain respect back is by willing to lose her and the only way she will actually believe that is when you let her go. I for one would show her that being married to you and taking care of her responsibilities isn't tying her down, what is tying her down is her own perception of marriage and committment, what life looks like if she were to act as a responsible wife and mother. If she wants to be in the marriage then she has an obligation to do her share of the lifting, if she is not willing to do her part and prefers to be let loose give her what she wants and she can do her own lifting.

LeMont

We are in our 40's... And no males in the group. I know it seems like I'm in denial, but I looked and am still looking and have not found a thing. I am actually pretty good finding stuff, lol.
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LeMont

She went as an intern from school. A classmate of hers (who is single) she was only a little close to went with her. Now they hang all of the time. I agree with what you said about me coming off as weak. I am trying to stop that and prepare to take you suggestion.
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LeMont

If I confirm or even have strong evidence that there is a third party involved in will not remain in the marriage. I would immediately proceed with a divorce.
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LeMont

The new friends are connected to the classmate that went abroad with her. They are female. They go out to eat, shop and look at architecture. They travel to yearly conferences and went to Chicago one weekend. We still have vacationed but it did not seem fulfilling or fun.
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greens07

It is possible for a woman to develop friends and interests of her own without doing anything wrong in the process. Life can become very routine and boring for a woman when all of her focus is on her family with very little time for herself. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can imagine it would feel very exhilarating for a woman to only have to think about herself for a little while.

In spite of the fact that it didn't work out for me (there are other problems that led to that though), you guys should plan a romantic getaway together. My husband and I had some of the best talks of our relationship planning that trip. Find a little spa and get a couple's massage. Relax on a beach somewhere and get to know each other again. Find out why you fell in love in the first place. Plan date nights. Bring her flowers. Romance her. Not just once, but on a regular basis. She'll either fall in love with you all over again or she'll do the right thing and let you go. Either way at least you'll know and you'll also know you did everything you could.

COguy

That's all fine and dandy, the thing is, women don't realize they have "fallen out of love" unless they have found someone else to "fall in love" with. Like, you didn't realize how blurry your vision was until you got LASIK and now everything is all crisp and clear.

There's a reason almost every single cheater story starts with the ILYBNILWY speech.

The hardest part is convincing the guy that it's all too common and that they are in denial. Before you go through it, you think there's no way your wife is someone who would cheat. You don't think that your wife would go to a hotel with another dude when she's supposed to be at girl's night. Or that she would buy a prepaid phone to hide her texts or calls. Or that she would ditch work to go on a screw fest. Or that she would turn lesbian and be interested in her best friend that she swore she was "not into like that."

And yet, the forum is filled with stories like that.

In fact, I'd like for someone to come back and share with me a story about a woman who started spending all this time away from home, gave the ILYBNILWY speech, but WASN'T cheating.

The speech proceeds a desire to create space, or get out on your own. If she just wants to hang out with her friend, she can't do that married? Why does she want independence so bad if she's not interested in someone else?

She may not have even cheated yet, but she is out there with her friend and she is at the least, excited by something when she is out that she can't do without feeling guilty while married.

My guess is they are hitting the bars together and flirting with guys, or that she is having feelings for her female friend, or that she is smart and took an affair underground (prepaid phone, secret email, etc.).

She went on an overnight trip, anything could've happened. Spend $40 and put a VAR in her car, that will really tell you what's going on. Or get a babysitter and tail her a couple nights and see where she's going and what she's doing.

DayDream

What choice do I have? I ache constantly. Cry in the shower and in bed at night. (I sleep alone.) I try to psych myself into not feeling anything for him anymore and look to the future to a life without him. I try to gather enough courage to end it but never do. I envision a life with somebody (somebody else) who is into me and will be kind and considerate to me. I focus on raising our son.

greens07

I'm not saying there aren't cases of cheating too. I just think it can be either way. When someone cheats, it's because they're missing something and when they can't find that something with their partner, they look for it elsewhere. The problem is just deeper than her cheating or potentially cheating.

iheartlife

Hit the nail on the head, COguy.

I knew this is what was bothering me.

-----------------------

You supported her as she finished her degree.

You supported her as she travelled for 6 mos.

You've been supportive as she's made lots of new friends, people with whom she evidently spends plenty of time.

Wow, that sounds like a LOT of independence to me.

And she's married with all that independence.

So what does she want independence from--and what for? What MORE independence is she seeking?

DayDream

Sounds a lot like my husband with his new job where he travels a lot and has met all kinds of new people and has this whole separate life. He's become somebody at work so this life with me is no longer good enough. I'm too "blue collar". I don't want to "rise with him".

greens07

I see it more as trying to figure out who you are as an individual. You know who you are as wife and who you are as mom, but who are you as just you. It's not that it can't be done married, it's more that it gets seen as a threat and misunderstood which causes problems. I think I read somewhere that they had skype calls or chats of some sort everyday? That shows that she does want to include him, just on her own terms. She should have her own interests anyway. It gives them things to talk about when they are together and will help make their time more quality instead of the routine "how was your day...fine how was yours".

iheartlife

Well, in my book, a healthy marriage should include 10 to 15 quality alone hours per week. I realize that some people have jobs (such as the military) where this is physically impossible. But I don't see that here. If you spend lots of time apart, you grow apart, you don't grow together.

I have tons of interests and my husband has his own, and we don't share very many. But that just makes it way more interesting when we spend our quality time together daily, we have lots to share and talk about. Our separateness enhances our togetherness.

She is telling him she isn't in love with him any more. That's enough to make any spouse break down and cry on the spot. This is far more serious than 'she needs her space.' She got her space, and it took her away from him, and now she wants even more.