The same fight - Every Night! - Page 4
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:03 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

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Originally Posted by Tall Average Guy View Post
I agree with TAG on this since I am currently in this exact position. I almost never intiate because I am tired of the rejection.

I have been actively working on this over the years but the last ditch effort will be made in June and then we'll see what happens!
I am actually hearing this advice. I do feel like maybe it's me some - if not majority. Even though my friends and mother say otherwise.

I do notice if we "get out of town" with or without the kid, we are better. I relax, he eats vacation style, and doesn't exercise so much. We have fun. We went camping with friends, took a hike, HAD A BLAST.

We went to his brother's wedding and had a wonderful time, dancing and such.

We spent a week at the beach just the 3 of us last April. I didn't want to come home!

But we can't always be on vacation and 2-3 weeks a year of good, don't make up for the rest of the time.

I think I need to find time for ME! - to be honest though, I would like some me time at my home, to decorate, paint, read a book. I am never in an empty house. And when I suggest he take the 3 year old to play golf with him, he looks at me like I am silly!
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:17 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

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I think I need to find time for ME! - to be honest though, I would like some me time at my home, to decorate, paint, read a book. I am never in an empty house. And when I suggest he take the 3 year old to play golf with him, he looks at me like I am silly!
I've played hooky from work to get some "me" time, to be alone in my own home We have 3 year old twins and quite frankly I've not had any time to develop a hobby since they were born (I didn't have any from before, I drank, that was my hobby). My hobby now is alone time or quiet time when I can find it. Sometimes my H will tell me to disappear, to go take a nice bath, etc. Kind gesture, but my kids seem to always find me and next thing you know I've got toddler twins splashing around my tub

Maybe golf isn't the forum for a toddler, but the suggestion that he take your child out and about to give you just a little time to yourself is not too much to ask, IMO.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:22 PM   #48 (permalink)
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What you describe is a man that thinks himself single and free of any obligations other than himself. He's not home to spend time with his kid either, much less you. If it's this bad, then I'm not sure if there is a solution that would work for both of you other than seperating. He sounds like he's halfway out the door anyway.

Why bother? What's in it for you? Other than grief? You can be single and be happier. You're doing everything as a single parent anyway.
From smother him with your coochie to just give up and don't bother? Yikes.

Wife30, you have repeated yourself enough times - 3-4 times as if you never said things in the first place - to get the message you aren't going to get any help here......except the suggestion to seek counseling. Yes it helps and can save your marriage. The biggest thing is it doesn't matter if he is grumpy. He has to learn how to treat you and how not to treat you. You have to learn the same. You both have to learn how to prioritize your life, and you both have to learn better communication skills. If he needs anger management, then make him go there too.

As much as anything else, you both need to learn to communicate your ideas of family values and how to get on the same page, or at least find a compromise. For example, you have to stop harping on the differences between your upbringing. You state that like a badge you carry on your breast pocket. What you've done is determined your upbringing was better than his. Maybe it was, but is that really how you want to make your husband feel? You carry that badge through your daily lives, and he resents it. He resents you thinking sitting at the table for dinner is the way he also is supposed to believe. He resents it not because it's some terrible idea but because you use it against him - to change him, to make him feel less than you, inferior somehow. You don't do this intentionally, but you do it just as clearly as the things you've stated he does.

The badge you carry is not necessarily about the same issue, just that he resents and rejects you wanting to control and change him on whatever the issue, and the result is him being made to feel inadequate or that you think you are better than he is. I will tell you also that his workout regimen just might be a way to stay away from you and how you make him feel. That's one way of lashing out. Then, when you're both together, he lashes out in a different way - his anger and grumpiness.

This is why I say counseling will help because both parties bring something to table and add to, if not initiate, the conflicts even though they don't realize it. You didn't realize you contribute at all. He doesn't realize he contributes either. You're both just reacting to present circumstances and from past ones. You have to learn to let go of all that and accept each other in order to become Mr. & Mrs. Wife30, not the children of your parents. Glean from your upbringing, but become the couple and family of your own creation. Dinner at the table together doesn't have to be when you say or because you say. It can be Sundays only, or it can be Saturdays and Sundays, or it can be never. You both have to decide to appreciate and respect each other's wishes. Mutual respect will make it so much easier to usher in compromise.

I think I may have accomplished making you realize something - that you may also be responsible for your own unhappiness being that you both contribute in ways you don't realize. And that is what counseling will do much better than I am able. However, the last thing you want is for a counselor to come down on you and make you feel as if you are to blame for everything like your husband does. That will serve to make him feel great and validated and all that, but it will make you feel terrible and unwilling to continue therapy sessions. By the same token, you have to determined not allow a counselor to do that to him either. A good counselor never should be that way with either of you. To say that you are right and he is wrong will make you feel like "finally somebody is telling him what I've been saying all the while" but just like in my converse example, it will make him feel awful and unwilling to open up and participate the way you need him to for counseling to be successful. No one should be alienated like that. A good counselor will have much better and much more effective methods for helping you both deal with your problems. So, you might have to shop around and try on a couple marriage counselors before finding a good fit. Don't be afraid to reject them if they make either of you feel uncomfortable. Just keep in mind that counseling is not for either of you to feel jumped on, but that the ultimate goal is for you both to learn how to make your marriage work and work much better.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:24 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

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From smother him with your coochie to just give up and don't bother? Yikes
I was taking what she said at face value (which is her perception as doom and gloom)

If its as bad as she describes then yes, why bother? Is it really THAT bad?

I don't think so. But I'm not married to him either.

ETA: You have to admit the more she said about him the worse sounding he is. My next question was what are his endearing qualities... something is keeping her there.

Last edited by A Bit Much; 05-09-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I am not sure where in our relationship he decided it was ok to treat me like the enemy, or to speak to me like this.
When I call him on it he treats me like I am silly.

...

I understand people get grumpy - but this has become a constant thing. It's weekly. I go to bed sad, mad and hurt. He continues to claim that it's not any different than how I treat him so it's justified? We have the same fight - Over and over again.
This is not okay. It is, for you, a serious problem and he refuses to take into consideration the fact that his disrespect of you is taking its toll. You need to communicate with him in a way that he understands how bad the situation really is. I bet he doesn't see it from the outside. Unfortunately, ignorance or ego-centrism is not an acceptable excuse for his treatment of you.

Have you guys tried going to counseling? Have you read any books about how to communicate better in marriage? Is he under some kind of stress at work? Is your sex life suffering? Are either of you depressed? Do you both have sufficient time for your individual hobbies and interests? How are things between you when you're not arguing? Have you ruled out the possibility of infidelity?

The fact that you are frequently upset about this and that he refuses to deal with it signifies that it's a serious problem. You're right to be looking for resolution and a way to deal with it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

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Well he is really smart. Like book geeky smart and it's really cute when he gets on a history channel tangent. He likes books and reading. I like to read so we can talk about books.

He is sarcastic in his humor, and makes me laugh - when he is in a GOOD Mood!
I had to jump in on this because it really brought back very fond memories for me. My husband was a brainiac. When I first met him, he didn't have cable. He spent his evenings reading. And he had what he termed "dry" humor, but yeah, it was pretty sarcastic at times.

How about this: get a babysitter and start having a date night once or twice a month?

I completely understand your wanting to be a good mother and to be there for your child, particularly since you work full time. But it sounds like hubs is feeling ignored and left out; thus, he spends his time working out.

The gyms I've belonged to have all had childcare for the little ones, and I saw plenty of pregnant women walking on the treadmills. Maybe you should consider that as well. My ex runs marathons. I have no desire to run, or walk 60-plus miles each week to train for such an event. But I loved attending to see my husband cross the finish line.

See, the thing is, you come from a family that enjoys regular interaction. Like my dear friend who is from a big Italian family. Everyone is emailing or talking with one another on the phone every night. They're all yelling and laughing with each other. They are a very tight knit group. Your husband is from the other end of the spectrum.

This boils down to a matter of COMPROMISE. No, you probably will probably never completely understand his being comfortable with aloofness, and he will probably never fully appreciate your family and the way they behave. But try to find some common ground. Just lay down the law and tell him you want to work as a team. You give a little, and he gives a little.

Please don't construe anything I am saying as trivializing the seriousness of your situation. But it sounds to me like your husband has qualities you love. I hope both of you are able to work this out for the best.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:47 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

You can get a sitter for alone time too. There's no law against that.

When your husband is gone arrange a play date or send him with the child to the gym daycare.

Take a day off during the week if you can... send the child to daycare like it's any other day.

There are ways to squeeze in me time, you just have to be creative.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:56 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

I read a bit more of the thread and wanted to amend or add to my reply. I'm not suggesting that he's cheating or being nasty to you, just that something's wrong and it's bugging you so communication is needed. When my H began acting this way, I was perplexed, and a number of factors were involved, including infidelity. However, it made me see that the real problem was how we were communicating about our conflicts. He would just lash out at me and then stonewall and I would just be a doormat about it. I wish we'd been able to find a way to fix things before it fell apart; I wish you luck in finding a way to communicate. At the end of the day, you see a problem and he doesn't and you need to find a way to make him see that there is a problem before you give up trying to fix it.

I agree with "johnycomelately" that power dynamics are probably at the root of this; and, with "Almost Gone" that time away from him which allows him to miss you will really help a lot; and with "ten year hubby" that you are being too emotionally reactive, which is making things worse between the two of you (don't assume or jump to conclusions or be needlessly suspicious; just take a step back and observe and wait before you react to him).

Also, dieting and being sore from working out can definitely make people grumpy. Is he more grouchy the days after his workouts?
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:59 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I agree with Prodical. I would love more date nights. 1 date every 4 or 5 months doesn't do it. When We do go out we "have" to be home before our 8 year old goes to bed. rives me nuts.

My wife spens so much time taking her to after school programs annd Summer Camps it keep us broke so we can't afford to go out.

I would like attention anything. It may be too way way too late for bring back love.

I think it is time for you to have interests. More than just your child. I want my wife to get a life and a hobby or two. She BORES THE HECK out of me.

I also see pregnant women walking all over. Here, we have hike and bike trails.

My wife does have qualities that I love. I am out growing her more each day.

Find hobbies yourself and make him miss you a little. At first he may not miss you. He may pretend to be happy that you are doing something. THEN he will want to be around you more. He may give up HIS exercise time. Then again... Nothing may change. Worst case, you will have a life. It is Called a 180. I am sure somebody said it already and I missed it. Become more interesting tham a mother... (not that its a bad thing) that is all my wife is.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:22 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

I have a five year old and a two year old, both of whom need me/us at bed time. The 2 year old pretty often wakes at about 9 and needs me again. So my husband and I have 2 date nights a week at home. Friday night we watch a DVD together and Saturday night we get take-away, wine and talk.

I think we'll be able to get back to going out in a couple of years. Till then, this is working well to keep us connected.

I was in a similar situation and it wasn't until I sat down and basically forced my husband to talk to me that I discovered how hurt, resentful and depressed he'd been since our first daughter was born. In return I told him how alone, and resentful I had been. We both apologized. It wasn't until we really cleared the air and understood how badly we had both been feeling that we could begin to repair things. So it's possible that fiddling around with date nights or shared hobbies won't help until you address the underlying issues.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:21 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

[QUOTE=Wife30;735135]I am actually hearing this advice. I do feel like maybe it's me some - if not majority. Even though my friends and mother say otherwise.

I do notice if we "get out of town" with or without the kid, we are better. I relax, he eats vacation style, and doesn't exercise so much. We have fun. We went camping with friends, took a hike, HAD A BLAST.

We went to his brother's wedding and had a wonderful time, dancing and such.

We spent a week at the beach just the 3 of us last April. I didn't want to come home!

Wife,

It's not about assigning a percentage of blame for the marital issues. It's about recognizing that there are issues and then making a conscious attempt to resolve them. Both parties share the blame for the issues but oft times it's one of the two who have to take the lead and surface the issues and offer remedies to get the ball moving.

I find it very telling that he thinks he is simply treating you the way you treat him. Something is out of kilter here because that's not what you see but it is what he thinks. He probably has some resentment over something that happened in the past and continues to look at small issues and say to himself "See? she just said x to me! How dismissive and insulting!". I know because at times I've done this to myself at some of my lower points when my self esteem took a beating after a number of rejections by my wife.

I also wonder if it's possible that he could be feeling alot of stress now that he's responsible for not only you (yes, I know you work full time but that's just how we men think sometimes) but for 2 kids! That's alot to process and deal with even if he was the one who wnated the kids!

Again, I still think counseling is key!
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:10 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for your opinions. My husband and I are having lunch today so I plan to start another conversation there.

I never once said I didn't have hobbies, they just are more around my house, reading, hanging w/friends and family and work. I have exciting work. I just can't flitter off to the gym every day. I have a 3 year old, who already spends a good amount of time in child care and maybe husbands don't understand that often brings guilt to moms. (And maybe that’s on me, but I feel like I had the child, I should spend time with him)

It's not as commonly accepted for us. At work, as a professionals, being pregnant is like having the plague. They take projects from you, worried you won't return after maternity. They have to be more accommodating because you have doctor visits, and pre-school plays that need attending too.

Men seem to have it easier, the expectation to balance it all is not there, That is what your wife is for right?

I wouldn't mind putting the mommy stick down now and then, but my husband doesn't make sure he has shoes that fit, coats for the cold, lunches for school, or play dates for socialization. Add to that a full time work load, managing the household budget, paying the bills, and housework - there is a lot on my plate. A lot to keep in mind. Then there are Stay at Home Mom's that make comments about how when they had children they made the decision that they "wanted to raise them". Like I am not raising my son because I work or choose to work.

So I already have outside influence on both sides of the argument that don’t agree with how I manage my life. My husband, my home should be my safe haven. My support, not another battle field.

Then you have my husband, who has a completely open schedule. He can work from home, work at night, work from wherever there is an internet connection really. He spends 10-12 hours a week on hobbies he enjoys (The gym). He NEVER plans a dinner, NEVER plans a vacation, NEVER plans a birthday party, NEVER plans a date. He does do the dishes, take the trash out, and shows up for soccer practice to cheer his son on. He doesn’t drink excessively, cheat, or hit. He does LIE and berate.

It takes a lot to keep a household running. No matter if you work or stay home – It’s a lot of work, more than one person can handle.

My husband and I do date nights and I don’t' "require us to be home before little man is in bed" we actually try to plan to get home after, to skirt the bed time routine. - And I enjoy decorating our home, reading, spending time with girlfriends, and family. – those are my hobbies and YES I need to make more time for them. I am not interested in spending 10-12 hours away from my family each week at the gym. I did, before pregnancy take a spin class once a week. Right now I can’t… I have been ordered not to by my doctor. I walk at lunch with girlfriends at work, and stay active with a 3 year old.

I just want him to RESPECT me. Treat me as an equal. Stop yelling at me over a bowl of cereal - because to be honest, I contribute more than my fair share, and even if I did leave the bowl in the sink so what. HELP your working wife out and rinse it. Don't berate her about it. I don't do that sort of thing to him - a bowl of cereal in the sink would not even bother me. (This is where I am labeled messy)

I pay for a maid service to come 2 times a month, because the MAN has never cleaned a toilet in his life, and I can’t find time for myself these days let alone his john!

Then with sex – It’s once or twice a week, when I say “hey honey want to – wink wink” – This is the only time I am told that I am wonderful, sexy, or pretty.
But the complements are never – Smart, funny, or thank you for hosting my mother’s 60th birthday party and cooking mini crab cakes for her and 40 of her closest friends, while herding a 3 year old. THEN on my 30th birthday – instead of taking me out, he went out the day of and got me a potted plant and a card, said love you and went to the D*MN GYM.

Don’t get me wrong, I love him. I care for him, he is my husband, the father of my children, smart, funny and charismatic. But the resentment is there. – Maybe I am young, naive or something… and maybe this is JUST WHAT MARRIAGE IS. But I am drowning. I can’t keep fighting and when separation sounds nice simply because I know I would get every other weekend to myself something is wrong.

What is so bad about wanting to come home to a peaceful evening with your family. Why can’t that be enough for him sometimes. He has needs, well so do I. I NEED HIM TO BE HOME and enjoy being home.

Ok it's official I am angry. Maybe I am stubborn, but he needs to give a little. I read over this thread last night. I think some of the advice is very valid... and I am going to try and incorporate it. I am not a saint. I may have "declined sex" before, I may "decline sex" again. I may leave dishes in the sink, and enjoy a bag of potato chips. I might not like his father, and worry he will turn into his father. Those are things I need to work on. BUT I sure as hell support him, raise his children, bring in my share of the income, try to build a nice home.

To be honest, YOU CAN"T ALWAYS DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! especially when you have kids. You need to engage, be in the room, and make peace with the decision you made to be a father/mother. Otherwise what is the point, we should just ship the little ones off to a boarding school so we can have ME time.

My son is my ME time. My husband is my ME time - but to him WE are an obligation. NOT FUN as A bit much stated.

Well I think we are fun and I am tired of being told otherwise.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:36 AM   #58 (permalink)
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From smother him with your coochie to just give up and don't bother? Yikes.

Wife30, you have repeated yourself enough times - 3-4 times as if you never said things in the first place - to get the message you aren't going to get any help here......except the suggestion to seek counseling. Yes it helps and can save your marriage. The biggest thing is it doesn't matter if he is grumpy. He has to learn how to treat you and how not to treat you. You have to learn the same. You both have to learn how to prioritize your life, and you both have to learn better communication skills. If he needs anger management, then make him go there too.

As much as anything else, you both need to learn to communicate your ideas of family values and how to get on the same page, or at least find a compromise. For example, you have to stop harping on the differences between your upbringing. You state that like a badge you carry on your breast pocket. What you've done is determined your upbringing was better than his. Maybe it was, but is that really how you want to make your husband feel? You carry that badge through your daily lives, and he resents it. He resents you thinking sitting at the table for dinner is the way he also is supposed to believe. He resents it not because it's some terrible idea but because you use it against him - to change him, to make him feel less than you, inferior somehow. You don't do this intentionally, but you do it just as clearly as the things you've stated he does.

The badge you carry is not necessarily about the same issue, just that he resents and rejects you wanting to control and change him on whatever the issue, and the result is him being made to feel inadequate or that you think you are better than he is. I will tell you also that his workout regimen just might be a way to stay away from you and how you make him feel. That's one way of lashing out. Then, when you're both together, he lashes out in a different way - his anger and grumpiness.

This is why I say counseling will help because both parties bring something to table and add to, if not initiate, the conflicts even though they don't realize it. You didn't realize you contribute at all. He doesn't realize he contributes either. You're both just reacting to present circumstances and from past ones. You have to learn to let go of all that and accept each other in order to become Mr. & Mrs. Wife30, not the children of your parents. Glean from your upbringing, but become the couple and family of your own creation. Dinner at the table together doesn't have to be when you say or because you say. It can be Sundays only, or it can be Saturdays and Sundays, or it can be never. You both have to decide to appreciate and respect each other's wishes. Mutual respect will make it so much easier to usher in compromise.

I think I may have accomplished making you realize something - that you may also be responsible for your own unhappiness being that you both contribute in ways you don't realize. And that is what counseling will do much better than I am able. However, the last thing you want is for a counselor to come down on you and make you feel as if you are to blame for everything like your husband does. That will serve to make him feel great and validated and all that, but it will make you feel terrible and unwilling to continue therapy sessions. By the same token, you have to determined not allow a counselor to do that to him either. A good counselor never should be that way with either of you. To say that you are right and he is wrong will make you feel like "finally somebody is telling him what I've been saying all the while" but just like in my converse example, it will make him feel awful and unwilling to open up and participate the way you need him to for counseling to be successful. No one should be alienated like that. A good counselor will have much better and much more effective methods for helping you both deal with your problems. So, you might have to shop around and try on a couple marriage counselors before finding a good fit. Don't be afraid to reject them if they make either of you feel uncomfortable. Just keep in mind that counseling is not for either of you to feel jumped on, but that the ultimate goal is for you both to learn how to make your marriage work and work much better.
To be honest, I normally cringe when I see Rivers1977 name on a post, and have found very little in common with any of the attitudes expressed, but THIS, THIS is golden, it is something that could have been written by me, as it expressed nearly all the thoughts I had already had while reading this thread!

I can sort of piece together a timeline of this relationship, and see where it went wrong.

Guy and girl enter relationship, all goes well, he wants kids, she wants him to wait, he accepts and is ok with it for a while. They enjoy their time together, his clock ticks a bit louder and a few cracks appear, she has baby number one and he is de-prioritised and rebuffed on any and all advances for an extended period, builds up his resentment, and decides to focus on himself. He is rallying himself for an exit from the marriage and child number 2 enters the picture. He remembers the hard times after number one but is also torn by a sense of duty and doing what is right by the family....."if only maybe" is his mantra now. He is looking for signs that things may go back, but is not holding much hope, thus the constant grumpy.

Realize that this is written from the masculine viewpoint and is not intended to direct blame at Wife30.

I am sure there are pressures that he put forward to create resentment from her, just as much as vice-versa, as River1977 stated.

They need to change their dynamic. Set aside a time to behave like they are both on holiday while still at home, time for them to interact in positive ways again, ACCEPT each other's foibles and adapt their thinking to work WITH each other instead of against. Be more accommodating of each other's every whim. It may not fix everything but it will be a great start.

2c rant complete.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:48 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I am actually hearing this advice. I do feel like maybe it's me some - if not majority. Even though my friends and mother say otherwise.

I do notice if we "get out of town" with or without the kid, we are better. I relax, he eats vacation style, and doesn't exercise so much. We have fun. We went camping with friends, took a hike, HAD A BLAST.

We went to his brother's wedding and had a wonderful time, dancing and such.

We spent a week at the beach just the 3 of us last April. I didn't want to come home!

But we can't always be on vacation and 2-3 weeks a year of good, don't make up for the rest of the time.

I think I need to find time for ME! - to be honest though, I would like some me time at my home, to decorate, paint, read a book. I am never in an empty house. And when I suggest he take the 3 year old to play golf with him, he looks at me like I am silly!
That is silly
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:52 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

>>Then you have my husband, who has a completely open schedule. He can work from home, work at night, work from wherever there is an internet connection really. He spends 10-12 hours a week on hobbies he enjoys (The gym). He NEVER plans a dinner, NEVER plans a vacation, NEVER plans a birthday party, NEVER plans a date. He does do the dishes, take the trash out, and shows up for soccer practice to cheer his son on. He doesn’t drink excessively, cheat, or hit. He does LIE and berate. <<

It's clear you resent him.

And, it's also clear you resent your own role in the marriage.

I would echo River77's post to get to counseling.

He's not letting your resentment run him around - that's a good thing. But, there are compromises that committed partners can make with each other.

I would read the His Needs Her Needs book.

And - be thankful he's not a doormat.

You'd have many worse issues if he was.
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