Tall Average Guy

Not at all. Your issues are very real. You have legitimate issues with your husband. But neither I nor you can change your husband. You can only change yourself. Your husband is not posting here, you are. I can only give thoughts and advice to you on ways that you can change. You can think about that advice, or you can get defensive and point out all the reasons we are wrong and you are correct. So how is that working for you?

So my question is now what do you want from us? Do you want us to just nod and pat you on the back and shake our head over what a rough life you have. I suppose we could, but that is not terribly helpful. I have tried to point out some areas where you can change to improve the dynamic. I have also urged counseling for both of you. Finally, I have noted that your posts are very dismissive of your husbands feelings. Your husband wants you to take the first step. You want him to do that. It seems like a stand off, so your choice is to keep up this dynamic or take a chance. I do hope this works for you.

Mephisto

One question, and I know it shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does.

How is your weight?

Sometimes this is an area that builds resentment from your partner as well.

MEM11363

Wife30,
Clearly you want to improve your marriage and willing to work at it. That is more than half (your part) of the puzzle.

You would not have married him if he acted this way at the start. Maybe I missed it but one big piece of this puzzle is timing. When did he change and why do you believe that happened.

He is chronically angry/tense despite a Lot of exercise. Why?

Do you realize that the two of you have managed to give you total control of sexual frequency? Have you thought about what that means?

He makes it as clear as he possibly can how much he feels loved and therefore responds in kind when you initiate. The 1-2 times a week you have sex are likely the peak of his week.

Before proceeding: I am NOT being critical of you. I am describing a very extreme dynamic. Why does he feel totally powerless in this critical aspect of your marriage?

You mention in passing a period where you rejected him a lot. I chuckled when I read that. This is like the tourist maps. The NY one has manhattan taking up half the surface area, the whole rest of the US is in the other half. Your map is of San Fran, his of NY.

Imagine this, you approach him for a hug and as you reach out for him you say "I love you". And he gently pushes you away and says nothing. Repeat that 3-4 times a week. How would you feel?

Obviously you didn't do any of this deliberately. Just as obvious to me, he feels so emasculated in this area he relies on you and secretly hopes each day you will initiate.

This is not easily fixable. You cannot fix it simply via (to be continued)


UOTE=Wife30;736597]Thanks everyone for your opinions. My husband and I are having lunch today so I plan to start another conversation there.

I never once said I didn't have hobbies, they just are more around my house, reading, hanging w/friends and family and work. I have exciting work. I just can't flitter off to the gym every day. I have a 3 year old, who already spends a good amount of time in child care and maybe husbands don't understand that often brings guilt to moms. (And maybe that’s on me, but I feel like I had the child, I should spend time with him)

It's not as commonly accepted for us. At work, as a professionals, being pregnant is like having the plague. They take projects from you, worried you won't return after maternity. They have to be more accommodating because you have doctor visits, and pre-school plays that need attending too.

Men seem to have it easier, the expectation to balance it all is not there, That is what your wife is for right?

I wouldn't mind putting the mommy stick down now and then, but my husband doesn't make sure he has shoes that fit, coats for the cold, lunches for school, or play dates for socialization. Add to that a full time work load, managing the household budget, paying the bills, and housework - there is a lot on my plate. A lot to keep in mind. Then there are Stay at Home Mom's that make comments about how when they had children they made the decision that they "wanted to raise them". Like I am not raising my son because I work or choose to work.

So I already have outside influence on both sides of the argument that don’t agree with how I manage my life. My husband, my home should be my safe haven. My support, not another battle field.

Then you have my husband, who has a completely open schedule. He can work from home, work at night, work from wherever there is an internet connection really. He spends 10-12 hours a week on hobbies he enjoys (The gym). He NEVER plans a dinner, NEVER plans a vacation, NEVER plans a birthday party, NEVER plans a date. He does do the dishes, take the trash out, and shows up for soccer practice to cheer his son on. He doesn’t drink excessively, cheat, or hit. He does LIE and berate.

It takes a lot to keep a household running. No matter if you work or stay home – It’s a lot of work, more than one person can handle.

My husband and I do date nights and I don’t' "require us to be home before little man is in bed" we actually try to plan to get home after, to skirt the bed time routine. - And I enjoy decorating our home, reading, spending time with girlfriends, and family. – those are my hobbies and YES I need to make more time for them. I am not interested in spending 10-12 hours away from my family each week at the gym. I did, before pregnancy take a spin class once a week. Right now I can’t… I have been ordered not to by my doctor. I walk at lunch with girlfriends at work, and stay active with a 3 year old.

I just want him to RESPECT me. Treat me as an equal. Stop yelling at me over a bowl of cereal - because to be honest, I contribute more than my fair share, and even if I did leave the bowl in the sink so what. HELP your working wife out and rinse it. Don't berate her about it. I don't do that sort of thing to him - a bowl of cereal in the sink would not even bother me. (This is where I am labeled messy)

I pay for a maid service to come 2 times a month, because the MAN has never cleaned a toilet in his life, and I can’t find time for myself these days let alone his john!

Then with sex – It’s once or twice a week, when I say “hey honey want to – wink wink” – This is the only time I am told that I am wonderful, sexy, or pretty.
But the complements are never – Smart, funny, or thank you for hosting my mother’s 60th birthday party and cooking mini crab cakes for her and 40 of her closest friends, while herding a 3 year old. THEN on my 30th birthday – instead of taking me out, he went out the day of and got me a potted plant and a card, said love you and went to the D*MN GYM.

Don’t get me wrong, I love him. I care for him, he is my husband, the father of my children, smart, funny and charismatic. But the resentment is there. – Maybe I am young, naive or something… and maybe this is JUST WHAT MARRIAGE IS. But I am drowning. I can’t keep fighting and when separation sounds nice simply because I know I would get every other weekend to myself something is wrong.

What is so bad about wanting to come home to a peaceful evening with your family. Why can’t that be enough for him sometimes. He has needs, well so do I. I NEED HIM TO BE HOME and enjoy being home.

Ok it's official I am angry. Maybe I am stubborn, but he needs to give a little. I read over this thread last night. I think some of the advice is very valid... and I am going to try and incorporate it. I am not a saint. I may have "declined sex" before, I may "decline sex" again. I may leave dishes in the sink, and enjoy a bag of potato chips. I might not like his father, and worry he will turn into his father. Those are things I need to work on. BUT I sure as hell support him, raise his children, bring in my share of the income, try to build a nice home.

To be honest, YOU CAN"T ALWAYS DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! especially when you have kids. You need to engage, be in the room, and make peace with the decision you made to be a father/mother. Otherwise what is the point, we should just ship the little ones off to a boarding school so we can have ME time.

My son is my ME time. My husband is my ME time - but to him WE are an obligation. NOT FUN as A bit much stated.

Well I think we are fun and I am tired of being told otherwise.[/QUOTE]
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Trickster

When my wife and I decided to have a child, I was the one that pushed her. She always told that "one day we will" So I asked her to marry me and it was still "one day when we are both ready" Then we were getting to the point where we were getting too old so she agreed to try to get pregant.

We got pregnant right away and when our daughter came, She had the hardest time. I should have listened to her when she said that she wasn't ready. i would of found somebody way before we even got married.

Well she put more energy into being mom. she and I decided that she shouls be a SAHM. so here comes all the Gymboree, moms day out, and many others. I got zero attention. I wanted a child, she gave me one and this was the result. 8 years later, it is still all about our daughter. Nothing about us or what I need. Yes it's childish, annd yes, It may be selfish on my part.

My wife write little love notes on our daughters water bottle with her lunch every day. I NEVER GET THAT. I used to write and leave notes all the time on the mirror and everywhere else. I feel so sad that she put zero effort into our marriage or attention to me. That is part of why I am angry. She does a great job of being MOM, not so good at being a wife. Sex is the easiestway to help me feel loved, wanted and desired.

MEM11363

Wife,
HE Has some issues. For sure he does. And maybe he is hyper sensitive.
Of course you have the right to say "not tonight babe".

If you are sick or visibly tired he should be considerate and not even initiate. And it is also true that somehow you two are either going to find a way for him
to feel comfortable initiating AND for you to reach an overall frequency you BOTH feel good about.

Now let's totally forget sex for a moment. He needs to man up - come clean with you about two huge things:
1. Acknowledgement his behavior towards you is not acceptable.
2. Define an overall compromise with you that allows him to get rid of the chronic anger that is driving most of his bad behavior

This won't be easy. The wedding bit shows a side of you that is not flattering.

UOTE=Wife30;737826]Let me ask you a question. Well if a wife is tired! SICK! or just wants a moment in her own skin. She is now harming her husband, because she doesn't drop all the feelings she is having at that exact moment to adopt his feelings, this is a deal breaker for you? It hurts your feelings when your wife says "not tonight honey" ?

I could see if I she said YUCK, gross, NOT you.

This is not attitude. I promise I am truly trying to wrap my head around this argument.

I agree I have probably hurt him, but not by saying "not tonight honey - I am tired"

And if that did hurt him, how do I fix that? I am going to have times in life where I don't feel like it. Am I supposed to just perform anyway, like a pet?

If he gets offended every time I am not in the mood we will never stop having the same fight. Doesn't he have to own those feelings?

I own my feelings of resentment. I know he deserves a hobby and time on his own. I know some of that is me but if you get upset because your wife says no (Sometimes) isn't that you?

I go and watch him run his races. I watch the kid so he can work out. I get grumpy about it... but I don't YELL AT HIM OVER A BOWL OF CEREAL. I don't yell at him at all. When I try and talk to him - honestly openly, I get told I am being silly.

Silly! But when he said he didn't feel like I paid him any attention any more - 2 years ago. I said ok - well lets plan time JUST US once a week - and we did date night every Friday night.

So I heard him. But if I have issues I am silly.[/QUOTE]
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Devastated and Depressed

There is an apparent underlying reason for his grumpiness and people can assume all they want, but no one really knows the reason except for your husband. And actually, he may not even know! Maybe he does not know the reason that he has become more bitter and maybe he needs to figure that out himself. I think since this is affecting your marriage to this point, you have to seriously sit him down and explain to him how you feel about the changes in your marriage and that you need to find some type of clarification or reasoning so that the two of you can start working on fixing it, whether that be counseling or communicating more deeply about the situation. He is your husband and he loves you so he should be able to realize how much this is hurting you.

Toffer

Is it me or does it look like someoen else has decided to not respond because they weren't getting the answers they wanted?

Wife30

No Toffer I am here, I just had a workshop to facilitate yesterday afternoon, and then I actually went home and spoke to my husband.
I showed him the thread. - He said he does not feel like he is grumpy all the time.

He actually said, he is just not that emotional, he doesn't get excited, or happy over things like I do. - I don't 100% belive this, since I remember him being joyful during our courtship - but we seemed to center around his reaction to the news we were having a girl. He has said for the past 8 years he would love a daughter. Now that we are having one, he was actually grumpy the day we found out.

He said I don't know him very well then... And maybe that's true. I told him well - you don't share yourself. You never come home and talk about your day, we are often that couple that sits at a restaurant eating in silence. He said I cut him off when he talks about work. - He is right, I have done this, and I need to work on this.

His job is highly technical, and I don’t' find it all that interesting. Don't get me wrong, I am proud of him, a lot of what he does involves math that is WAY over my head. - He did also admit that at work they tell him he has a hard time explaining stuff to other employees. He is the Lead architect on his project and has to bring people in sometimes. He understands it, and speaks at a high level, but even those trained in his field, have a hard time following him. - So he is getting that on both ends. And like I said before as he should be my safe place I should be his safe place. I am going to work on that.

He said he is happy with our sex life. I don’t' know if he is just placating me, but he said he is happy. I can only go off what he says. I told him I would like him to get the ball rolling sometimes. He said ok.

He does not want to do counseling and does not think we need it. I told him that is fine, but that I am going to give it to the end of the year - 6 months. And if I am not feeling better about "us" I want him to go with me.

Things seemed good last night and he seemed happy and was goofing around with our son this morning. I don't know. My fingers are crossed.

Wife30

The only thing I can say here is that I don't think our situation is the same... but I have work and friends that I also put energy into.

As a SAHM your wife's world is her daughter and you guys made that decision and it will be healthy and beneficial for your daughter to have a mom that is so evolved in her life. (Its a good thing)

My husband did pressure me to have children, but I love him for it. Now I was still young only 27 when I had my son, so there was no time pressure. My hold off was that I wanted at least 5 years for us first - because I knew, like my parents, that I would want to give my kids all that I could. My mother would give me the shirt off her back if I needed it. Sounds like your wife is a very dedicated mom. This is a good thing. And keep in mind, she pushed to hold off on having kids because she cherished your time as a couple.

I work near my husband, so at lunch sometimes I will drive by and leave a note, or treat in his car. Or I use to. He now won't eat the treats. But I do send him text, and facebook messages. Like if a silly picture makes me think of him, I will post it on his wall. But I understand the tunnel vision you get with your kids. - She is not doing all of if just for your daughter. She is raising your daughter for you too. Your daughter is part of you, so when she shows that affection toward her, it's to you too. You guys together created her.

I would try giving what you want to recieve. If it's little love notes. Leave her ones. Send her an email, or text. She most likely will respond. Make it a habit to check in on her once a day. On the days you get busy, she will notice you don't and may pick up the slack. - It is something I would like to see my husband do.

Wife30

Mem11363 - I actually think things changed when he started chatting with that female co-worker online. It wasn't flirtations but more venting. She spoke poorly about her husband a lot. How he got mad when she wouldn't make him lunch - but would make the kids lunch.

He in turn started talking, and thinking, poorly about me. I don't do my laundry - I am messy. I am not interested in staying up late to watch an eclipse. That sort of thing.

Now he stopped. And I truly have no worry that he is still caring on any kind of relationship with her. But I think this is when he decided he doesn’t' really like things about me. - And while I try to keep my laundry under control now. The seed has been planted.

I have said this to him. - I am being silly. "I like you, I love you" but his actions say something different sometimes. He opened up to her, probably enjoyed it more than opening up to me and even on an unconscious level, has never come back.

As A Bit much stated before - I truly believe he does not think I am "FUN" - (I just don't think it's sex)


And this hurts my feelings. I think I am fun but our interest have grown apart. What can I say?

It's been 3 years now, and I guess at this point I still question if he really likes me. I think he loves me but I am not sure he likes me. (If that makes sense)

This is my opinion. NOT His.

Wife30

I am small. I don't have weight issues. If I do they are the opposite. Where I try to gain weight.

But he is thin too. But he works at it.

A Bit Much

You're still not convinced? It really can be that simple. As it stands now, you are in control of frequency. He depends on you to give him cues to when it's ok for sex. I'm thinking he resents that.

I was talking about this subject with my husband. He said if a wife turns down her husband he's going to withdraw. Even if it has only happened a couple of times. Rather than face another rejection, he just stops trying. He waits on her to initiate and then he knows she's into it. What ends up happening is he starts to resent being controlled by her in that way. Maybe he wants it every day. Middle ground on that would be 3-4 times a week, but she only initiates a few times a month. It's not enough for him, and he probably feels bad for being angry about it, but he deals because he loves his wife. The anger has to go somewhere... so he finds things to do outside the home. Stays away from her so he's not lashing out.

Let's couple the lack of frequency with the 'mommy' thing 24/7. Nope, not fun at all. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy IMO.

Wife30

[QUOTE=Wife30;739563]He said he is happy with our sex life. I don’t' know if he is just placating me, but he said he is happy. I can only go off what he says. I told him I would like him to get the ball rolling sometimes. He said ok.

He does not want to do counseling and does not think we need it. I told him that is fine, but that I am going to give it to the end of the year - 6 months. And if I am not feeling better about "us" I want him to go with me.
[QUOTE]

I did talk to him about it. And I let him read the tread. He says he is happy. He also says he initates. Our perspectives on who gets us started are skewed. - But he does not say he is unsatisfied in anyway. - Maybe he doesn't realize it, but I let him read your arguments and asked him if he found value in them. He said, he does not like getting turned down, but that he knows why I have in the past. - Why he has in the past. And that we have sex plenty now.

I don't think his resentment is sex. I think it's me. My personality.

I know I am not supposed to do this, but his mom - did not work when raising him. His dad was the bread winner.
Now I don't make as much as him, but I make plenty - enough that I don't "Need" him financially. I think he wants me to need him.

I have always said I keep him around because I "want" him around, not because I "need" him around. - He wants me to need him. To find his interest interesting.
I am the kind of woman that kills her own spiders. It's hard to stop that. To let him kill the spider. I am there, I have a shoe, job gets done.

We are each going to try and be better for the next 6 months. I am going to listen to him and not cut him off when he talks about things that don't interest me. He is going to not raise his voice, and try and concentrate on my endearing qualities.

I think your fundamental argument that he does not feel "manly" is correct. I just think it's less sex, and more day to day interactions. - Even though I start us off, he pretty much takes the lead in bed. Trust me!

Trickster

Hey wife...
We all come on TAM to help each other with our experience by sharing.

From your last post, I think you have helped me more than you may realize. I do need to do the things that I want her to do. Even if she may not respond at first. Eventually, she will. Even with hugs and all, It seems forced. Practice make perfect though. So thank you wife!... I will work on that.

Ten_year_hubby

Wife30,

I hope you can see in retrospect that these statements come off as being judgmental