The same fight - Every Night! - Page 8
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:20 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

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You're still not convinced? It really can be that simple. As it stands now, you are in control of frequency. He depends on you to give him cues to when it's ok for sex. I'm thinking he resents that.

I was talking about this subject with my husband. He said if a wife turns down her husband he's going to withdraw. Even if it has only happened a couple of times. Rather than face another rejection, he just stops trying. He waits on her to initiate and then he knows she's into it. What ends up happening is he starts to resent being controlled by her in that way. Maybe he wants it every day. Middle ground on that would be 3-4 times a week, but she only initiates a few times a month. It's not enough for him, and he probably feels bad for being angry about it, but he deals because he loves his wife. The anger has to go somewhere... so he finds things to do outside the home. Stays away from her so he's not lashing out.

Let's couple the lack of frequency with the 'mommy' thing 24/7. Nope, not fun at all. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy IMO.
A Bit Much,

This post of yours is perhaps the best one I've read about the issue of the sex struggle between husbands and wives.

I am currently living this life and your husband hit the nail square on!

My wife has only iniated about 2x this year so I have to say my frustration level was very high. We have averaged a little less than 1x a week this year

I have withdrawn into myself and no longer to out of my way to express my love for her through non-sexual touch or gestures. I'm still polite as hel* and do all that I've always done around the house but I now do more for just me and don't include her. I go out for meals with friends, do a little fishin or whatever else I want to

as I've stated too many times to count, we've done all the talking, counseling etc and I have seen improvements in my wife but they've always been short lived.

I plan one more try in about 2 weeks and I'll see what that does (waiting for her current busy time to end). after that? Who knows?
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #107 (permalink)
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A Bit Much,

This post of yours is perhaps the best one I've read about the issue of the sex struggle between husbands and wives.

I am currently living this life and your husband hit the nail square on!

My wife has only iniated about 2x this year so I have to say my frustration level was very high. We have averaged a little less than 1x a week this year

I have withdrawn into myself and no longer to out of my way to express my love for her through non-sexual touch or gestures. I'm still polite as hel* and do all that I've always done around the house but I now do more for just me and don't include her. I go out for meals with friends, do a little fishin or whatever else I want to

as I've stated too many times to count, we've done all the talking, counseling etc and I have seen improvements in my wife but they've always been short lived.

I plan one more try in about 2 weeks and I'll see what that does (waiting for her current busy time to end). after that? Who knows?
I would think this is a cycle. The more you pull away, the less interested she gets.

Plus it's a little ridiculous. If you turn down your husband "even if it's just a few times" he is going to withdraw?

We all get told No in our life. If everyone just stopped trying after the first few times they were told no, many accomplishments would not have been made, careers, inventions, explorations.

Havenít' you heard the expression "if at first you don't succeed, try try again?"

Where does it say that sex is mutually exclusive from this theory?

Plus - while as wives we want to be viewed as sexy, we also don't only want to be sex objects. In her mind, if you put the whole future of your marriage - relying on sex and her willingness. She is bound to think you don't balance the other important parts of the life you two build together.
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:03 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Hey wife...
We all come on TAM to help each other with our experience by sharing.

From your last post, I think you have helped me more than you may realize. I do need to do the things that I want her to do. Even if she may not respond at first. Eventually, she will. Even with hugs and all, It seems forced. Practice make perfect though. So thank you wife!... I will work on that.
Well this may sound completely stupid, but I am a corporate trainer and one of the first things you learn is that - People as a whole are creatures of habit. Hence why you feel the need to push the elevator button when you walk up to the elevator, even if it's already been pushed. It's just what you habitually do in that situations. So if we are teaching a new process to a group, we want to make it a "Habit" for them. This means it has to be something they get use to, to the point that they don't even really notice its something they do, day to day.

Pavlov’s Dog - you want that conditioned response. So if you start small by little calls, or text, build it up to a daily thing, next thing she knows - it's part of her day to day. Then when you start to wean off some, she will want to do what is habit and will pick up the slack.

It really works. I used to call my husband every day, "Just checking in - how is your day going" "Are you still alive out there in the world"
Now it's not every day. But he does tend to reach out. Not on the phone, but he will email, especially if he comes across an article or something that he thinks might interest me.

It's NOT overly romantic, but it does show that I am part of his day to day mental dialog.

He is not all bad!

Last edited by Wife30; 05-11-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I would think this is a cycle. The more you pull away, the less interested she gets.

Plus it's a little ridiculous. If you turn down your husband "even if it's just a few times" he is going to withdraw?

We all get told No in our life. If everyone just stopped trying after the first few times they were told no, many accomplishments would not have been made, careers, inventions, explorations.

Haven’t' you heard the expression "if at first you don't succeed, try try again?"

Where does it say that sex is mutually exclusive from this theory?

Plus - while as wives we want to be viewed as sexy, we also don't only want to be sex objects. In her mind, if you put the whole future of your marriage - relying on sex and her willingness. She is bound to think you don't balance the other important parts of the life you two build together.
You know what I read here? Lack understanding for what a man really needs to feel whole. You dismiss it because it's not important nor a NEED for you as a woman in the same manner. That's your disconnect from your husband. You almost sound very put out by the idea that sex is that important to him.

You're not a sex object to a man that truly loves you. You're his beacon. You're the soft place to land when he comes in from dealing with the world. His comforter. Sex is sharing with him in the most intimate way he can share his love for you. To act like or treat it like it's a bother or an unreasonable task, is to literally reject him as a man.

ETA: they don't like to admit it, but a man's ego is more fragile than an egg... they don't need much trampling on it to stop trying. They'll do what they have to do to avoid getting their feelings hurt.

Last edited by A Bit Much; 05-11-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:26 PM   #110 (permalink)
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You know what I read here? Lack understanding for what a man really needs to feel whole. You dismiss it because it's not important nor a NEED for you as a woman in the same manner. That's your disconnect from your husband. You almost sound very put out by the idea that sex is that important to him.

You're not a sex object to a man that truly loves you. You're his beacon. You're the soft place to land when he comes in from dealing with the world. His comforter. Sex is sharing with him in the most intimate way he can share his love for you. To act like or treat it like it's a bother or an unreasonable task, is to literally reject him as a man.
No - I never said sex isn't important - or that as a women I don't view it as a need.
Nor did I say it was a bother or unreasonable. I do think it's unreasonable to think your spouse is ALWAYS going to be in the mood when you are. Shoot my husband isn't ALWAYS in the mood when I am.
I like mornings, he is more of an evening kind of guy.

Every human being has a libido - but the clocks don't always show the same time. Like time zones sometimes you get jet lagged.

I think it's a very telling statement, if a man says that his whole marriage would be better if "we just had sex more". This isn't true, and while you might feel more connected, you still have other aspects that bring weight to a marriage.

I am sorry. Now if she is habitually rejecting him that's another story - But a slow patch, or a bad day, should not make your husband withdraw into himself and you said even if it's just "a couple of times". - Now THAT is ridiculous.
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:36 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Toffer,
It is almost impossible to succeed if YOU initiate the conversation. The only time I have seen the HD person get a good outcome in those situations is when they do something that I am personally not capable of. Which is basically to have the "I am leaving you" conversation. And it only works if their partner believes they mean it, AND really wants to stay married. I couldn't do that to my wife.

What is fairer and generally works better is to keep deprioritizing her until SHE says she wants YOU to increase how you prioritize HER. If she does not initiate this conversation it will fail. And that means you are going to have to start cutting back on stuff she DOES care about. So far you have been a bit careful not to cut back on things you know will make her angry or upset.

Until you get past your fear of upsetting her, I cannot imagine how your sex life could improve.

The fact that she is so comfortable rejecting you shows a huge lack of respect and consideration. For a woman, desire is linked to respect. The way you avoided directly addressing the negligee tease is a great example of this. That was a PERFECT example of you choosing to not enforce the "no teasing" boundary.

Until you get to the point where you accept that to improve the marriage, you have to be willing to "bet the marriage", nothing will change. If you truly "accept" that the marriage might not mean so much to her, and she might be willing to let it end, your fear will diminish greatly. If you don't there is no way you will be able to mask it.

Most women perceive male anger in these situations as fear. The most unsexy situation in the world for a woman is when a man projects fear in a conversation where he is asking for sex.




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Originally Posted by Toffer View Post
A Bit Much,

This post of yours is perhaps the best one I've read about the issue of the sex struggle between husbands and wives.

I am currently living this life and your husband hit the nail square on!

My wife has only iniated about 2x this year so I have to say my frustration level was very high. We have averaged a little less than 1x a week this year

I have withdrawn into myself and no longer to out of my way to express my love for her through non-sexual touch or gestures. I'm still polite as hel* and do all that I've always done around the house but I now do more for just me and don't include her. I go out for meals with friends, do a little fishin or whatever else I want to

as I've stated too many times to count, we've done all the talking, counseling etc and I have seen improvements in my wife but they've always been short lived.

I plan one more try in about 2 weeks and I'll see what that does (waiting for her current busy time to end). after that? Who knows?
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:48 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Toffer,
It is almost impossible to succeed if YOU initiate the conversation. The only time I have seen the HD person get a good outcome in those situations is when they do something that I am personally not capable of. Which is basically to have the "I am leaving you" conversation. And it only works if their partner believes they mean it, AND really wants to stay married. I couldn't do that to my wife.

What is fairer and generally works better is to keep deprioritizing her until SHE says she wants YOU to increase how you prioritize HER. If she does not initiate this conversation it will fail. And that means you are going to have to start cutting back on stuff she DOES care about. So far you have been a bit careful not to cut back on things you know will make her angry or upset.

Until you get past your fear of upsetting her, I cannot imagine how your sex life could improve.

The fact that she is so comfortable rejecting you shows a huge lack of respect and consideration. For a woman, desire is linked to respect. The way you avoided directly addressing the negligee tease is a great example of this. That was a PERFECT example of you choosing to not enforce the "no teasing" boundary.

Until you get to the point where you accept that to improve the marriage, you have to be willing to "bet the marriage", nothing will change. If you truly "accept" that the marriage might not mean so much to her, and she might be willing to let it end, your fear will diminish greatly. If you don't there is no way you will be able to mask it.

Most women perceive male anger in these situations as fear. The most unsexy situation in the world for a woman is when a man projects fear in a conversation where he is asking for sex.
The only thing I would add to this is:

My Grandmother is divorced. Has been for over 40 years. Her husband and her had an abusive relationship, on both sides. But if you ask her, she always says "When I said I wanted a divorce - I never expected it would go as far as it did". Even today at 84 years old, she says this.

Basically be careful what you ask for. Not everyone understands that when you say "I want out" - really you mean "I want you to fight for me to stay".

My grandmother has NEVER remarried. She never really dated again either. Now my grandfather got re-married, and was married for 20 years with his second wife before she passed and then he passed. Sometimes, even if someone is pushing you away - it does not mean they don't LOVE you.
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:51 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Default Re: The same fight - Every Night!

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But a slow patch, or a bad day, should not make your husband withdraw into himself and you said even if it's just "a couple of times". - Now THAT is ridiculous.
I take offense to that, only because I was speaking from what my husband says about 'a couple of times'. I don't find his opinion ridiculous. But you know what? I don't deny him sex for any reason so I guess I wouldn't find what he said ridiculous. He's not a hound, he is very respectful of me and cares if I'm sick or tired, or had a bad day... he's very in tune to me to know when it's a good time to go for it and when not to bother.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #114 (permalink)
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I take offense to that, only because I was speaking from what my husband says about 'a couple of times'. I don't find his opinion ridiculous. But you know what? I don't deny him sex for any reason so I guess I wouldn't find what he said ridiculous. He's not a hound, he is very respectful of me and cares if I'm sick or tired, or had a bad day... he's very in tune to me to know when it's a good time to go for it and when not to bother.
I don't mean to offend you, but you do put him off. You put him off by mood. You said yourself he is in tune and knows when it's a good time and when not to bother. So even if he is IN THE MOOD, if it's a time "not to bother" - he doesn't get any.
Maybe your more passive than overt about it - but there are times, when you are sick, tired, had a bad day, that he doesn't get any even if he finds you particularly lovely.

And you dont' feel like a sex object because he is "not a hound" and respectful of your moods.

This is exactly my point. You two aren't ALWAYS on the same page, but he still feels like a man, like YOUR man.

Actually sound like a GREAT give and take.

Last edited by Wife30; 05-11-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:13 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I don't mean to offend you, but you do put him off. You put him off by mood. You said yourself he is in tune and knows when it's a good time and when not to bother. So even if he is IN THE MOOD, if it's a time "not to bother" - he doesn't get any.
Maybe your more passive than overt about it - but there are times, when you are sick, tired, had a bad day, that he doesn't get any even if he finds you particularly lovely.

This is exactly my point. You two aren't ALWAYS on the same page, but he still feels like a man, like YOUR man.
We are on the same page, we just don't disrespect each other and have a sense of courtesy when it comes to certain things. I don't go jumping on him when he's sick (tired etc.) either. It makes me feel like a jerk. He says that he feels bad if he wants it and I'm not feeling well. Any normal human being would feel the same way.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #116 (permalink)
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We are on the same page, we just don't disrespect each other and have a sense of courtesy when it comes to certain things. I don't go jumping on him when he's sick (tired etc.) either. It makes me feel like a jerk. He says that he feels bad if he wants it and I'm not feeling well. Any normal human being would feel the same way.
RIGHT! - But not all men are like your husband. Some are dense and donít' realize their wife has had a bad day, has come home, maybe she doesn't bring it up because she doesn't want to bring home her bad mood, she is in bed, internalizing her feelings, trying to un-wind, read a book - whatever! He leans over "wink wink" - She says "not tonight honey, I have had a bad day" - Next thing you know she is being accused of rejecting him.
He then has reason NOT to try anymore? To reject her on other levels. - No Way. If he loves her, knows her, then he understands that her "not tonight" is not about him.

Again this is in the situation where its not a consistent refusal. If it's all the time, over a long stretch of time, fine. There is another issue there.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:29 PM   #117 (permalink)
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And I am sure some men are "hounds" and disrespectful! - As are some women!
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:31 PM   #118 (permalink)
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She says "not tonight honey, I have had a bad day"
In a marriage in which there is true 'in tuneness' (if you will) she doesn't have to say a thing.

And personally, if I had a bad day I want to unwind and can't think of anything BETTER than an O to fix me right up.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:32 PM   #119 (permalink)
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The way I see it, the sex isn't just for him. It's for me too.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:37 PM   #120 (permalink)
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He says that he feels bad if he wants it and I'm not feeling well. Any normal human being would feel the same way.
And I am not saying your husband is ridiculous. Just the statement he made. As you stated above, he knows there are times that you both arenít in the mood. He respects your feelings. - So while he made the statement, he is aware there are situations that you would turn him down... or - to better phrase, Not be up for sex. And he understands it's not him.

Please dont' think I was calling your husband ridiculous. That was not my intention and I am sorry.
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