General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Like many others, I have arrived here seeking a floatation device for what seems to be a sinking ship. My husband and I have been together for 4 years. It's a second marriage for both of us. Together we have 4 kids. Three boys live with us. They are 18+.
When we first got together, life was great! He was attentive and loving in his behavior toward me. We talked, he listened.
Soon after we married and moved in together, while cleaning and organizing the house, I uncovered his stash of porn, which seemed a little excessive to me (a large duffel bag full of DVDs), 4 home videos and screen printed pictures from those videos. I explained to him that in order to progress in a healthy relationship with me, he would have to let go of tokens from former relationships - that meant the home videos HAD TO GO! While I didn't agree with keeping the massive porn collection, I tried to accept the "all guys do it" sort of thing.
About 6 months into our marriage, mutual/pleasurable sex stopped and he became VERY selfish in his behavior. Suddenly he became a person who obviously thought my pleasing him was actually HIM pleasing ME! Seriously! Even that has dropped to once every couple of months. On weekends we don't have kids around at all, I make suggestions that we have a little fun - he claims that it's not spontaneous and he doesn't like it to be planned or acted on just because of timing. Seriously????
The big thing is, I am OCD - I notice EVERYTHING - things, behavior patterns, etc.
I know he watches porn ALOT! Sometimes he'll watch it when we're sitting in the same room with the kids - the kids can't see the computer at all, but there's just something CREEPY about that to me. He thinks it's his own little secret, but everyone has him figured out. Two of the boys went with him for a weekend to the lakes, his son called me and said they saw 6 DVDs stashed in his sons car.
I've tried to explain to him that porn use is causing him problems with performing - it's causing US problems in our relationship because he has his "intimate" relationship with porn and is spending his bonding brain chemicals there instead of on us.
He said he "might have a small problem with watching it, but it has nothing to do with our marriage." Whatever!!!!
When it comes to our sexlife - I've actually thought he may be bi or gay because he has NO interest in touching me intimately - I think the last time I had a REAL kiss was October 2009 and that was only after he had made me extremely angry.
Finally I confronted him on a day I new he was prepared to talk. I did find out he had been abused as a child by a relative. Well there was another justification for his porn use and the way he treats me. I told him I feel bad for what happened, but I can't fix him, he needed to take that step himself.
It hurts on such a DEEP level to know that he would rather watch porn and have sex with himself than to be with me. I'm not out of shape, I even had breast augmentation for me mostly, but hoping he would somehow find me more attractive. He says he finds me very attractive, but his actions tell me something else.
Yes I snoop. I have a keylogger on the home computer he uses. It has only revealed porn over the last couple of months. No gay porn, just a whole lot of the pleasuring men kind of stuff and he does like the legal ones that are marked teen.
Doing laundry is both traumatic and depressing - I see evidence of "excitement" often. So I'm assuming he's watching it at work or I've even thought he may be hooking up somehow.
Yesterday when he came home, I was instantly STUNNED. He came in about 45 minutes later than normal - his shirt untucked and several spots from the stomach down to the hem that were exactly like the spots I've seen in his briefs.
This morning I placed a VOR in his car. I had held off on doing that because once it's there, I know there's no turning back. He already accuses me of being too nosy and has forbid me to go in his closet. Ya RIGHT! Like that's going to stop me. Yesterday, before he arrived home from work, I saw a napkin in his closet that was wadded up and hidden. I can only assume what was on the napkin that was sticky enough to result in the condition it's in now.
His cell phone is on my account so if he has one he uses, it's at work - same with private emails.
I want so badly to ask him about the shirt episode to see if he was HOPING I would notice or if he was seeking a reaction of some sort - but I haven't to this point.
I want to tell him that his actions and more frequent distance from me is leaving me in the position to ASSUME what is going on. And the assumptions I have are:
1. He's secretly bi or gay and watches straight porn for the men instead of the women.
2. He's an extreme porn addict and chronic with J**king O*f
3. He's having an affair
4. He's trying to push me out the door
Should I confront him on this?
I'm simply not able to think in logical terms right now, so much emotion is getting in the way.
Is there any other logical explanation for the spots on his shirt?
Any sound advise you have to offer would be so appreciated.
I know he watches porn ALOT! Sometimes he'll watch it when we're sitting in the same room with the kids - the kids can't see the computer at all, but there's just something CREEPY about that to me. He thinks it's his own little secret, but everyone has him figured out. Two of the boys went with him for a weekend to the lakes, his son called me and said they saw 6 DVDs stashed in his sons car.
I don't have much advice for you, but counseling was my first thought. Would he be willing to go to marriage counseling for this? This to me does seem like a deal breaker for me, and for me at this point, it would be the porn has to go or our marriage is over. That's just how I would feel about it, it seems to be creating a mess of problems for your marriage and your children. Your H watching porn in the same room as your children or even taking a stash of porn on a lake trip for his kids is pretty gross IMO and borders on sex offending quite frankly and your H needs help big time. There is a time and place for porn, the family room with the family present is not one of them, or a lake trip with your children is not one of them. But again, these are just my feelings on it.
I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. I had a sex addict husband once, and while pron started off as fun, it DID get in the way eventually. When frequency and intimacy as a couple suffers, it's no longer ok IMO.
I have no advice for you other than to speak openly with him about your concerns and tell him how much it bothers you. Tell him it wouldn't bother you that he watched it if
1) he didn't watch in front of the kids
2) You as a couple were more frequent
3) He was more intimate/kissing/ caring of you -
Also, I would be a little leery about the fact that he looks at teenage men stuff AND you have teenage boys AND he watches it in the same room as you guys. IT IS CREEPY. One on it's own, not so much, but all three?? Scary IMO.
I hope the VAR doesn't reveal an affair.
Please keep us posted.
I think I would do what you are and keep looking but not confront yet. Once you have what you want as evidence, then I would give him the ultimatum that either he quits cold turkey and gets into serious therapy, or he's out the door, him and his stash.
My husband is a sex addict and he attends a 12 step group. There's several, you can have a look here
Have you seen this video? It's a famous Ted lecture on how porn addiction and excessive masturbation can seriously impact a man's performance. Doctors are seeing ED in younger and younger men and viagra does not work for them because the problem isn't physiological.
Maybe he's having an affair, or maybe he's just having an affair with porn.
Nearly all men enjoy porn, and nearly all men masturbate. However, when taken to the level of a full-time job, it is a compulsion that they are unable to stop on their own. (Not that he particularly wants to.)
It is scary that it is impacting your kids. I find that tragic, terrifying, disgusting, depressing.
You may find this thread interesting. It starts out being about her husband's emotional affair, but the core problem in the marriage is his porn addiction. Online affairs - dangers of unfinished business
This type of compulsive behavior is not something he's going to wake up one day and stop. Nor are you going to be able to end it on your own. If he will go to marriage counseling, you need one trained in sex addiction / porn addiction. The very best in your area that you can find.
I am cutting and pasting from that other thread I linked in my recent post.
Quote:
In terms of enabling, this is why I want you to find a porn addiction specialist. Again, so many people hate the word addiction, so let's just say really really bad porn habit that is destroying his life. Addiction therapists have support groups and counselors for you, the spouse, to explain how you enable their behavior. For example--do you contribute income? Do you make him meals or do the laundry? These are the types of things that allow his habit to function. He has extra time in the day because someone else is doing stuff that takes his habit into the realm of an occupation.
You might be interested in a chapter from the book, Why Men Stop Having Sex--the chapter called Caught in the Net. In it the authors say that in at least one survey, 9% of men said they watched online porn 11 hours or more per week. (Of the wives surveyed, 13% said their husbands watched 11 hrs or more a week.) You can see that your husband is probably in a small group--because 11 hours is a lot. I imagine he's in the top 5%, or even the top 1%, of online porn users.
You have to eat. You have to make money to live. Your counselor can show you how you are contributing to this habit. But this type of advice is far beyond what an Internet forum is equipped to handle. **** You need the big guns! Please try to find them.
I'm in agreement with everyone who says that you guys need professional help.
I wouldn't recommend a verbal confrontation. As with any addiction, denial and protecting the drug of choice is the addict's strongest motivation, which means he'll only see the message that you snooped - not that he is doing things that harm your marriage. (With porn, I believe the way our brains are affected by the release of oxycontin qualifies as a drug of choice.)
You have said one thing that I think is a good starting point: "He said he "might have a small problem with watching it, but it has nothing to do with our marriage." You can gently inquire about the reason HE sees it as a problem - even a small one. This is an important clue that he's unhappy with his own behavior.
Listen carefully, and continue to look for what's important to him about the things you hear. Maybe it makes him feel more in control. Why is that important to him? And so on. One area you can introduce questions about is how important he feels marriage to you is in his life.
Once you have a good understanding, use his OWN reasons to persuade him to seek therapy. If you've learned that it's important to him to stay married, have good intimacy, and find sexual pleasure without giving up control, you can use those things to explain how counseling will help him find ways to meet those needs without forcing you to give up yours, and let him know how important that is to you and that you believe he'll do the right thing by you.
I don't understand this question or your perplexity because the guy you have is the husband you've always known. When you married and moved in together, you found his porno stash. Within six months, he began to reveal his selfishness and porn addiction. What you know now is what you've known from the beginning. Because it has gone on for so long now, you may be frustrated and lament that he's not who you thought he was or what you hoped he would be, but he's the same guy. The time you and he dated before marriage, he hid his true self from you to dupe you into falling in love and marrying him.
Everyone thinks you should somehow get him to seek counseling, but I don't think that should be your main focus. Your husband has a very, very big problem that didn't begin after marrying you. He's had it for a long time, so counseling is going to take quite a while and much effort on his part, if it works at all. In the meantime and for the past 4 years, your sons know of his addiction.
You may be sure your sons are also into porn. They are into your husband's stash. I know you probably never thought of that and likely don't believe it, but you must believe it because it's true. If porn is anywhere within a teenage boy's reach, they are going for it. Your husband's stash is just way too close and convenient. They are also doing what he does on the computer because anyone can log onto all the pornographic websites, particular those that are free.
What I'm trying to say is your husband's problem is unhealthy. It's unhealthy for him. Unhealthy for your marriage. Unhealthy for the young men in your household. To your boys, he is a freak, but they are also doing it and don't consider themselves a freak. Yet, the addiction is affecting their life and their psyche. So, just try to imagine their wives and girlfriends going through the same thing that you are dealing with. Try to imagine your own sons having a compulsive addiction to pornography. Try to imagine your sons never growing up and remaining teenage masturbators when they are 30 and 40 years old. That is what's happening right now. They are well on the road because what we live with in our early years affects us our whole life.
You don't seem to find anything wrong with your young men being exposed to this kind of behavior, but it is not okay. You don't think it is affecting them because they hide it from you. They probably joke about it to throw you off course and so no one knows how much it means to them - just like your husband hid it from you when you were dating.
I think your main concern should be your sons, not a grown man. You can save him or fix him, but you can influence the mental health of the young men you are responsible for. They need to see you take action. They need to know you are not in support of your husband's behavior. You need to make him leave and tell him he has to stay away until he gets help. You also need to make sure your boys (and his son too) get counseling so their own future is not riddled with this addiction. He is the only role model they have. They need to know they are not to model his behavior.
Seeking help is up to your husband. What influences your sons' lives is up to you.
From iheartlife's post, quoted from another post of hers:
"Addiction therapists have support groups and counselors for you, the spouse, to explain how you enable their behavior. For example--do you contribute income? Do you make him meals or do the laundry? These are the types of things that allow his habit to function. He has extra time in the day because someone else is doing stuff that takes his habit into the realm of an occupation.
You have to eat. You have to make money to live. Your counselor can show you how you are contributing to this habit."
UTTER INSANITY!!! I have never in my life heard of a sex-addict's spouse being blamed in part as an enabler for the addict's behavior because they cooked his food or washed his clothes. What on Earth is being a wife all about?!? For being a common woman performing duties that we wives do for the men we love (much less "contributing to the income??"), we are ENABLERS in their porn habits?! That therapist/"expert" ought to be shot! I tell you what. If my being an average, all-American, dutiful, and companionable housewife warrants my blame as my porn-addicted husband's enabler, this perv needs a new wife! How DARE they co-blame the spouse!! Imagine. You're actually enabling his behavior b/c you're leaving him with enough time to masturbate. I've never heard such nonsense. What a cop-out for the addict!
Sorry iheart. No hard feelings. I just feel that that particular passage/theory is a slap in the face of addicts' spouses, whose lives are being destroyed by the addictive behavior. If I've got to stop being a wife in order to attend my husband's addiction, that's just it. I'll stop being his wife. (Then who's he gonna blame?)
Addicts MUST take responsibility for their own behaviors and not make scapegoats out of their loving/undeserving partners!
In situations like this, the most important action a spouse can take is to stop focusing on what their partner's behavior means, and take a clear, non reactive position. Let him know that what is happening is completely unacceptable to you, and that the marriage is at a crisis point.
A next step would be to suggest intensive marital therapy, to get a more clear sense of what the extent of the problem is. If he is unwilling to get marital therapy, begin to see a therapist on your own.
David Olsen, Ph.D., LMFT
If your husband is going thru a true addiction, HELP him, do not judge him. If he isn't do not judge him. Men and women are different. We are not here for you to change, we are here for you to grow with. Respect us as we respect you. As a father I do things that are not seen, as a husband I do things that are not seen, these things are for you and not for me because I could care less. I know they are important to you.
Support your spouse and recognize they think differently than you, DO NOT give up on them. You got married for a reason.
What I don't understand is why men like these, who have no interest in giving to a spouse, attempting to meet anyone else's needs or be a partner, want to get married?
Is it so they have someone to resist? Are they playing out a parent/child relationship? Do they just want someone around to cook and clean? Help with the bills? Do they feel they deserve to be loved by someone though they are willing to give nothing in return?
And how long do they think it's going to last? They know full well that they are playing a role in the courtship period, that bears little resemblance to their actual personalities.
5Likes
Who is this guy and where did my husband go? 
