General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
the trip is meant to "get away from everyone"...everyone except his friends, I suppose.
He's going to a party place to "get away from everyone" and he's going with his buddies? Uh, what part of this am I not understanding? Getting away from everyone, IMO, means going somewhere up in the Rockies to camp and hike for a week. Going to a place where people get drunk, cram the dance floor to bump-and-grind, and forget what happened the morning after .... yeah, he is getting away from YOU, while hanging out with a lot of strangers. I hope you aren't buying this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by galian84
.... if he would consider going somewhere less party-like, and he said he didn't see why he should, that if he wanted to cheat, he could cheat anywhere he wanted.
He then went on to say that I was beginning to sound like his and his friend's ex-wives, who they both thought were controlling, and that he thought I was more reasonable, and that I was blowing this way out of proportion.
Not respecting your side of this, so you are going to keep dredging up this conversation in the hopes of changing his mind. I told you he was going. Something you are choosing to ignore. So, you either like it or learn to live with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by galian84
Now what? He kept on asking what the difference was if he went to some party place or somewhere else. He also said that I should be glad that he's being honest with me, because he easily could have lied.
NOW WHAT? ONCE AGAIN ... you either put up or shut up. He is going. He has made that clear. If you have a problem with it, then it's YOUR problem. This is the kind of guy who is going to do what he wants to do. You are already getting that old, worn out you're-trying-to-control-me speech. The next variation of that speech will be you-are-a-nag.
I have been on vacations without my wife to fairly party friendly places with some of my guy friends... I had some of the best times of my life and I was completely faithful... We went around ate at some nice restaurants saw some sites drank and just had a good time! I loved it and came back still faithful. I let her go out for gno's and girls weekends, why shouldn't I be allowed to do the same. And both of us are aware of the others friends and their debauchery, but we trust one another as we should!
Yes, but the difference is, you guys were there to sightsee and eat (I assume). My boyfriend and his friends' sole duty for going on vacation is to get drunk and party. I have no problem whatsoever if he wanted to go explore a city with some friends, take in the sights, and whatnot. My ex-boyfriend used to go away on long weekend vacations with his friends to concerts, and to sightsee, and I always wished him the best, as I wished for my boyfriend to have fun when he took his son on vacation with his family without me last year.
You and your wife know and trust each others' friends, I don't even know one of the guys that's going with my boyfriend. And his other friend...well, only met him once and can't say from that initial meeting. But then again, this same friend is the guy who divorced his ex-wife because he wanted to go out to clubs and bars with a wife and child at home, and she wouldn't let him.
You're in a tough situation. I can see his feelings too. No one wants to be controlled, but I do think a little respect for the other side needs to come into play here. Do you really think he wouldn't have a problem if you went to Vegas or Cancun without him with a few girfriends who wanted to do nothing but drink & F*** around? If so, then he is definitely more liberal than you.
You could always allow him to go, but make it clear that you are not happy with his choices and it hurts your feelings. Maybe he can make it up to you with a trip for the two of you. You won't know if you can trust him or not in the future years if you don't try now.
Not eveyone sees things in black and white. There can be gray areas sometimes. I've noticed a lot of people on this board are more conservative than me in their views about what is acceptable and what's not - but their relationships definitely seem no better than mine. Sometimes I think we need to limit our spouces less unless we have a reason not to trust.
Good luck to you, sweets.
That's true...that's where part of my dilemma is. I asked him the question that you did, and he actually said he would have no problem if I went to Vegas with some single girlfriends and all they wanted to do was meet guys and get drunk. I found that hard to believe.
He was planning on going on vacation with his son after this, and then with me once I finish my internship.
Unfortunately I feel like if it gets to that point where there's a reason not to trust, it's too late already :/ Prevention is always better than cure, I always said...I always so no reason to put yourself in a risky situation if there are a million other ways you can achieve your goal.
I'm going to talk to him once more tonight, when we actually have some more time. If he still refuses to budge, even after I tell him how I feel, then I will take your advice and tell him what you said. And then if his only excuse is that I sound like his ex-wife (aka the "you're controlling me" speech), then it's time for me to take a BIG step back from this relationship.
Also, I found it interesting that my boyfriend won't hang out with females alone because of the fear of temptation. But yet he is totally fine going out partying with a bunch of strangers, with massive amounts of alcohol involved.
Just wanted to give an update...spoke to my boyfriend about it and after a big blowup initially and a clear discussion later on, we finally managed to work something out.
I said to him that doing this is unacceptable in a serious relationship / marriage, and he agreed, saying that if we were married / engaged he wouldn't think about going off on vacations with friends alone, period. He also assured me that he doesn't vacation with his friends often even while single, and that the last vacation he went on with them was 1.5 years ago. He also said that when he was married, the most he ever did with his buddies was go out on a guys' night every few months.
So for this time, I told him to go have a good time. He promised he would call every day and would avoid going to clubs, saying that if his friends wanted to go, he would suggest that they do something else, or stay in that night, go to the casino or take a walk. He also wanted me to drive him to the airport, so I could meet the other guy who was going.
It turns out we had some unresolved, deep-buried issues with trust (my part) and communication (his part) as well, which didn't help matters. He also apologized for saying those things, and to his credit, he has never said those things before, even when we have had disagreements / arguments.
I also made it very clear that if this becomes an ongoing issue and that if he did things behind my back, and I find out later about it, that I'm not going to stand for it and will not hesitate to leave him.
I also made it very clear that if this becomes an ongoing issue and that if he did things behind my back, and I find out later about it, that I'm not going to stand for it and will not hesitate to leave him.
I am sorry you took this approach. IMHO, a serious relationship doe not have these types of separate vacations. Period. The pronouncement that your response was controlling and like his ex-wife tells mountains about him. He has done this before while married.
I agree, KanDo. I wouldn't have had any issue at all if he wanted to go out with his friends for a night, or go on a vacation with his son / family without me. He takes his son for a week every summer and I never have any issue with it whatsoever...I encourage it because he has some time to bond with his son.
He assured me that this is NOT something he would do when he is engaged/married, but I'm not sure if I can believe him, after the way he reacted.
What's particularly concerning to me was not the vacation itself, but the reasons he gave and the way he reacted when I talked to him about it. It was a side of him I'd never seen before, as he's usually pretty calm when we have a disagreement.
The reason I was hesitating re: all your advice is because he's very good to me otherwise. He did agree not to go to clubs and agreed to call twice a day, and he is taking me on a weekend trip for my birthday afterward, then followed by another 10-day vacation for just us a few weeks after that. I also know he took his friend up on this vacation offer because he had a week off work, which originally was for him to go somewhere with me or his son, but it didn't work out. He said that even when he was single, he only went on "guys' vacations" every couple of years.
However, eventually it came out while we were talking that he didn't feel this relationship was "very serious" (by his words) because we were not at that level of commitment yet (engagement/marriage).
I had even asked him "so, if we were engaged or married, and I didn't want you to go on this trip, what would you do?" And he said "I wouldn't go, I never went away with my friends when I was married. All I did was have a guys' night out once every few months." And he doesn't go out with his friends often at all, maybe once every few months, if that.
I don't quite know what to make of all this, but with the revelation that I was more serious about him than he was about me, I decided to take a big step backward. I'm going to keep seeing him, although on a not-so-serious / just-dating basis, and am open to meeting other people.
Would like to thank you all for your responses and comments, really opened my eyes and made me think twice about this relationship and where I stand with him.
I agree, KanDo. I wouldn't have had any issue at all if he wanted to go out with his friends for a night, or go on a vacation with his son / family without me. He takes his son for a week every summer and I never have any issue with it whatsoever...I encourage it because he has some time to bond with his son.
He assured me that this is NOT something he would do when he is engaged/married, but I'm not sure if I can believe him, after the way he reacted.
What's particularly concerning to me was not the vacation itself, but the reasons he gave and the way he reacted when I talked to him about it. It was a side of him I'd never seen before, as he's usually pretty calm when we have a disagreement.
The reason I was hesitating re: all your advice is because he's very good to me otherwise. He did agree not to go to clubs and agreed to call twice a day, and he is taking me on a weekend trip for my birthday afterward, then followed by another 10-day vacation for just us a few weeks after that. I also know he took his friend up on this vacation offer because he had a week off work, which originally was for him to go somewhere with me or his son, but it didn't work out. He said that even when he was single, he only went on "guys' vacations" every couple of years.
However, eventually it came out while we were talking that he didn't feel this relationship was "very serious" (by his words) because we were not at that level of commitment yet (engagement/marriage).
I had even asked him "so, if we were engaged or married, and I didn't want you to go on this trip, what would you do?" And he said "I wouldn't go, I never went away with my friends when I was married. All I did was have a guys' night out once every few months." And he doesn't go out with his friends often at all, maybe once every few months, if that.
I don't quite know what to make of all this, but with the revelation that I was more serious about him than he was about me, I decided to take a big step backward. I'm going to keep seeing him, although on a not-so-serious / just-dating basis, and am open to meeting other people.
Would like to thank you all for your responses and comments, really opened my eyes and made me think twice about this relationship and where I stand with him.
You're doing the right thing for sure. He was screaming red flags. Men usually lie when they get super defensive, especially when they are calm during other arguents/discussion.
And just cause a man "agree" not to do something doesn't mean he won't.
So I am glad you open to meeting other people, he seems a little childish with his actions.
Whether you end up with or someone else, I wish you all the best!
At the age of 40, I think I'd rather take a vacation with my sweetie then go hang with a bunch of guys that are just going to get drunk and hit on chicks half their age.
One consolation to it though would be that if he's as serious about your relationship as he says he is, let him go and just trust him. He'll not only think you're cool for doing it, but I'll bet he ends up missing you and thinking about you the entire time and not have half the fun he thought he was going to have.
Maybe while he's gone you should plan to have a few girls nights out yourself and you could nonchalantly mention that to him in passing one day. I'm sure that will bother him a little while he's on his trip and make him think of you even more.
I'm not saying that you should put up with this every single year but maybe when he goes this year, he'll realize what a drag his immature friends really are, how gross they look partying it up and hitting on chicks half their age and maybe won't even want to go next year.
Sometimes when you give a little..you get a lot more in return. Hang in there!!
This is not the healthiest thing to do, but it worked for me. Twice it was suggested that my wife go on vacation with the girls without me. Once with a group of cousins (some married some not) to Vegas and once with a group of girlfriends (4, 3 single) to Jamaica. Almost identical scenarios both times, the ladies talked about it with her in those tones people take when they are fishing to see how you'll react but aren't really talking to you. With the cousins I answered b4 she did. I said "If she gets to go to Vegas without me, I get to go to Thailand or Amsterdam without her. My wife let out a fake laugh and then went stoned faced and said "I don't think so". The second time, with the friends, I guess she learned from the first time b/c she shut things down b4 I was able to do my schtick. Galian84, I don't remember reading, but did you ask your bf how you going somewhere like Jamaica with a bunch of single friends (and without him) would go over? If he doesn't care, that pretty much tells you what you are worth to him imo.
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Galian,
I think you handled this well. I was a bit put off by his comment that he could have just lied to you about their destination. That is a scary response. As for his ex wife, if you can get some truth syrup in him, (3-5 drinks) you could seed that conversation with a fictional couple you used to know where the husband was really controlling. Then ask him "what was the best part of hour marriage? And the worst? Was there stuff you resented having to give up?
OTE=galian84;810946]I agree, KanDo. I wouldn't have had any issue at all if he wanted to go out with his friends for a night, or go on a vacation with his son / family without me. He takes his son for a week every summer and I never have any issue with it whatsoever...I encourage it because he has some time to bond with his son.
He assured me that this is NOT something he would do when he is engaged/married, but I'm not sure if I can believe him, after the way he reacted.
What's particularly concerning to me was not the vacation itself, but the reasons he gave and the way he reacted when I talked to him about it. It was a side of him I'd never seen before, as he's usually pretty calm when we have a disagreement.
The reason I was hesitating re: all your advice is because he's very good to me otherwise. He did agree not to go to clubs and agreed to call twice a day, and he is taking me on a weekend trip for my birthday afterward, then followed by another 10-day vacation for just us a few weeks after that. I also know he took his friend up on this vacation offer because he had a week off work, which originally was for him to go somewhere with me or his son, but it didn't work out. He said that even when he was single, he only went on "guys' vacations" every couple of years.
However, eventually it came out while we were talking that he didn't feel this relationship was "very serious" (by his words) because we were not at that level of commitment yet (engagement/marriage).
I had even asked him "so, if we were engaged or married, and I didn't want you to go on this trip, what would you do?" And he said "I wouldn't go, I never went away with my friends when I was married. All I did was have a guys' night out once every few months." And he doesn't go out with his friends often at all, maybe once every few months, if that.
I don't quite know what to make of all this, but with the revelation that I was more serious about him than he was about me, I decided to take a big step backward. I'm going to keep seeing him, although on a not-so-serious / just-dating basis, and am open to meeting other people.
Would like to thank you all for your responses and comments, really opened my eyes and made me think twice about this relationship and where I stand with him.[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
After some of the responses I got from him through the last month, the vacation itself doesn't even bother me anymore.
He compared me to his ex-girlfriends once, saying that they always let him go on vacation with his friends, and that he loved them more for it. To which I asked, "then why did you tell me so many times that you never loved them, and if they were so great, why did you break up with them?" To which he had no answer for.
I even pointedly asked him if by "getting away from everyone", he meant getting away from me, his son, and his family. He said yes. He sees his son 2-3x a week and feels a need to get away from him. This worries me.
He also said he couldn't understand why I had this problem, that other couples he knows and works with wouldn't have this issue. So I told him "Then ask them, if their SO went to them and said they wanted to go on a vacation to get away from you and the kid(s), you think they would be okay with that??" Again, he really had no answer for that.
He also gave me this long speech the other day about how we need to save money. I told him not to go on this vacation and opt for a night out with his friends instead, if he wanted to save money...you don't go on vacation to save money. To this, he kept saying "I NEED to go. I MUST go on this vacation to clear my head," I don't know, maybe someone can give me a different viewpoint on this, but I found this response rather odd.
I said to him....look, if you wanted to go on this vacation because you happened to have a week off, in which you were unable to go somewhere with your son, or me, and your friend suggested you go hang out, and you had extra money to spare, then go ahead. THEN he said "Oh yeah, that's the reason," o_o
I think I made the right choice in taking a step backward in this relationship...one of the reasons I originally fell in love with him because he seemed to have his priorities on straight, but I'm not so sure anymore...
Been awhile so I thought I'd pop in here and post an update =) Well, for those who are still reading this.
Boyfriend is going, no matter what. Interestingly enough, I met his friend, the one who he's going with. Very friendly guy, made an effort to get to know me. We got along fabulously...he is about 6 years younger than my boyfriend, and one of his closest friends (as they are both single dads and often hang out with their sons together). My boyfriend kept pushing the vacation...friend didn't seem like he was too enthusiastic about it, and just kept saying "yeah we'll figure it out." In fact, he seemed more interested in the weekend trip they were taking with their sons in August, and the one my boyfriend and I were taking, than the one they were taking together. Later on, found out it was because his friend was worried about money, and he said he felt bad because they'd been talking about it for a long time. The day ended without any definite plans still, and the trip is supposed to be in 3 weeks.
Funny thing is, my boyfriend's on some kind of saving money-kick and he's booked 3 vacations.
So you know what I did? Planning a trip to Vegas with of my girlfriends from high school, before I go away with him. Not to spite him, but I saw it as a good opportunity to hang out with this girl (and potentially her friends) as I haven't seen her since May, and also a good opportunity to take a trip before I begin working full-time. And yes, she is single and had just broken up with her boyfriend recently...and is a partier.
When I brought it up to my boyfriend, he wasn't too happy and got paranoid that other guys might be going, and started saying I should be saving my money instead.
Was it the healthiest thing to do? But nothing else worked, short of breaking up with him, that is.
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Re: Vacationing without your SO/spouse 
