General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Plus I love her. I really do love her, through everything I love holding her in my arms, I love spending time with her, she is still everything I wanted when we married 7 years ago come July 2nd.
But she has the opposite of your feelings, she mentioned she loved you but wasn't in love with you. Classic cheater script.
I'm not trying to hurt you but you have to look at it realistically. How are you planning on making someone do something they don't want to? Posted via Mobile Device
She came out today and stated that she has been unhappy this entire last year, for different reasons. She says she has "tried to make this work" but that now she is "unhappy and sad and only feels comfortable when it is just her and the kids", which I don't understand, I've been more supportive, doing dishes more, more meals, etc.
She said earlier today that she is done. She said that she tried this last year but that she never "got that feeling" back.
Now I'm devastated. I look at my kids and I get choked up, I wanted to fix this, I wanted to make things okay, I knew I wasn't the best husband but I was pretty dang good and a very good father to my children.
I just don't know now what I'm even going to do. Everything in my life is wrapped around my wife and my two children, 4 and 2 years old (girl and boy), now I'm utterly destroyed...
What do you do when you still love your spouse more than anything? What do you do when you've allowed yourself to be nearly dehumanized over the course of a year as you try and fix things? What do you do when they just tell you all the time that they are "unhappy" and now they say they only said "I love you because I didn't want to hurt you"...
I don't want to give up on us, should I? Should I just say to hell with this and give up? After a year of waiting for something to change, and now her talking about separating and a divorce all at once? I want to fight to save this but I don't know even what I'm fighting for anymore, I'm a man in tears right now...
This is tough but it will get better. I've been there. You have to do the 180. You have to reject her and move on. Be strong. Do not take any sh*t from her but do not overreact either. Often the best response is no response. The key is strength and maturity. That will not only help you regain a sense of control it is the most likely approach to give YOU the choice of whether you want to take her back.
Po and I are probably alike, and for me I was able to turn around my marital problems with MMSL without any need for threats. I did not want to go there.
The fact is that if a wife is falling out of love and the husband is not going to abandon the marriage, it puts that husband in a weak position when it comes down to it. It disempowers him.
The way I view it, the reality is that marital vows have no legal force. The only power behind our marital vows are those powers vested by us as a result of our personal values.
So, people such as myself in a position of our wives falling out of love with us... The way we have to view it is that we have very great personal value on the vows we made at our marriage, but those are vows that were made by the husband and the wife together. We owe it to that value to leave the marriage only as a last resort, but the fact is that if it comes to that last resort, it's because the vows were already broken by a wife and a marriage is between man and wife, not man and vows.
I feel as though I could go in circles. I'm just glad for my part that it never came to that.
What struck me about this response is you mentioned the word "threat". What I said wasn't a threat...it was pointing out a nasty remark and that it was uncalled for. Even if the marriage is in jeopardy I still don't see the benefit of pretending a person isn't being nasty toward you. I guess I just don't get it.
You are blaming yourself, and you are NOT the whole problem. Both you AND your wife have contributed to this, and it will take BOTH of you to work on it to fix it. Believe me, I jsut started this same process in February. MLC/ and ILYBNILWY talk...
What you are going through right not is the sense of loss...a similar feeling to: if your wife left on day for the store and a police officer showed up at your door and told you she had been in a bad accident and died...ONLY worse: she is still there with you. You WILL go through all the feelings and emotions people go through in a loss: blame/depression/anger/resentment/denial....and it is understanable.
TAM will help with this...heed the advise you get carefully though because you will get a lot of personal stories and need to take from them what applies to you. You WILL get people that have been hurt by infidelity insisting that she is cheating, which may not be true, but they can be convincing....
Po, nothing you've done so far is working, in your own life or your marriage.
Time for the 180, if only to get some self control & emotional well being.
Do the 180!!!
And about the boob and a-- grabbing...I thought that was normal? I love when my husband takes the time and notice to enjoy what I have to offer. And I do it too. Maybe it just depends on the person, but personally I find great pleasure in grabbing my husband's butt or sticking my hand down his pants when I can find a little private moment. So don't beat yourself up over that either.
I used to ask myself this...do you ever feel like a square peg trying to fit itself into a round hole?
What struck me about this response is you mentioned the word "threat". What I said wasn't a threat...it was pointing out a nasty remark and that it was uncalled for. Even if the marriage is in jeopardy I still don't see the benefit of pretending a person isn't being nasty toward you. I guess I just don't get it.
It was more directed at the 180 comment from Keko than you. I think I'm in agreement, but how he responds is key. An arguement, even a sound rational arguement, is a losing response. The nastinessis obvious, and by responding to it she gets to make the response the focus of the moment and she doesn't get the chance for the self reflection that might otherwise lead her to think to herself "That was really a stupid thing to say."
I have gotten more apologies from my wife for the times she says something out of anger when I've refused to respond than I've ever gotten by saying anything. Sometimes she'll apologize much later if I just respond by saying that she said something mean... But it takes that time for her to process and realize on her own that she said something stupid.
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The thread linked below is about as close as I get to my story, it has my posts about the point where I turned my marriage around and on the day my wife was planning to move out, instead we started a new beginning. I've been keeping my updates in this thead as well: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general...-sex-life.html
And about the boob and a-- grabbing...I thought that was normal? I love when my husband takes the time and notice to enjoy what I have to offer. And I do it too. Maybe it just depends on the person, but personally I find great pleasure in grabbing my husband's butt or sticking my hand down his pants when I can find a little private moment. So don't beat yourself up over that either.
I used to ask myself this...do you ever feel like a square peg trying to fit itself into a round hole?
It wouldn't be normal if someone who you weren't comfortable with and/or did not have respect for came up to you and grabbed your boobs or ass. It's not about the action, it's about the state of the relationship.
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The thread linked below is about as close as I get to my story, it has my posts about the point where I turned my marriage around and on the day my wife was planning to move out, instead we started a new beginning. I've been keeping my updates in this thead as well: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general...-sex-life.html
It wouldn't be normal if someone who you weren't comfortable with and/or did not have respect for came up to you and grabbed your boobs or ass. It's not about the action, it's about the state of the relationship.
Which, really, is what I was getting at. Like you said...if the relationship wasn't in jeopardy it would be. But I was afraid he was talking like he wasn't normal or something was wrong with those actions period.
I do feel abnormal even touching her anywhere that could be considered an erotic zone. Like I said, she hasn't felt 'sexual' at all in the last year, went so far as to say she hasn't even taken care of herself.
Our appointment yesterday with a new marriage counselor was okay I guess, not really what I expected. I'm realizing more and more that I truly am The Nice Guy by very definition. The MC listened to us, asked questions, and gave his input. Basically he stated that I need to just let her go, if she decides she wants to leave I can't do anything about that, begging for her to stay only makes it worse because it makes her stay for the wrong reason, to keep me from hurting. For her, he wants her to communicate better and be more open with me. Basically he states (correctly I must admit) that I have allowed my own personal well being to be far more tied up in her emotional well being, and when she is upset I blame myself, instead of letting her work it out herself. It is okay for me to support her but not to blame myself or think I can fix her.
I downloaded No More Mr Nice Guy last night and holy crap, even more of a wake up for me. I have always believed in being the nice guy, in giving up whatever I needed to, sacrificing, to maintain a happy family, without realizing that giving up that much of myself makes me something I'm not. Instead I end up bitter, angry, and a host of other 'victim' mentalities.
I don't know if the 180 is needed quite yet, I'm going to work within the realm of the NMMNG book, and also work on my own health and well being. I've spent a year trying to do this my own way with crappy counseling and medication, and while the medication has helped, the counseling has been substandard, obviously. I would think any counselor worth his weight could have determined the Nicy Guy syndrome and confronted me on it.
Now for at least a little good news. While she is leaving tomorrow with the kids for two weeks, that will still give me some time to get my life a little more in order, start finding my way back to things I enjoy, get back to working out, and focus on my job. Even better news, she is talking all about this coming school year and what she wants to do, and it involves being here.
The really crappy part I am realizing, is that the only way for me to break this cycle is to, for lack of a better term, "fall out of love" somewhat, so she can come back into the fold and feel comfortable. Just seems like such a crazy course of action, love her less to fix the problems... but both the counselor and this book seem to say the same thing, and crazy enough it makes sense.
The really crappy part I am realizing, is that the only way for me to break this cycle is to, for lack of a better term, "fall out of love" somewhat, so she can come back into the fold and feel comfortable. Just seems like such a crazy course of action, love her less to fix the problems... but both the counselor and this book seem to say the same thing, and crazy enough it makes sense.
I think this requires reformulation of what you think love is. Love is wanting the best for someone else. There is an essay on here, Let Them Go, and that is its essence. Love that involves forcing someone to do what they don't want to do is too selfish to be a pure love. Of course no one is entirely capable of this, it is a superhuman quality to love this way, but that should be our goal. Posted via Mobile Device
That's what I ended up doing with my husband this year. I sucked up my despair as well as I could and calmly told him that if I was really holding him back and keeping him from fulfilling his dreams, then maybe we just aren't meant to be together anymore and it was time to let the marriage go. He asked if that was what I wanted, and I said "no, but if that's what you want I will let you go. I'll do it for you."
I don't know if the 180 is needed quite yet, I'm going to work within the realm of the NMMNG book, and also work on my own health and well being. I've spent a year trying to do this my own way with crappy counseling and medication, and while the medication has helped, the counseling has been substandard, obviously. I would think any counselor worth his weight could have determined the Nicy Guy syndrome and confronted me on it.
Good for you Po, you're making progress, that should give you a lot of encouragement.
The men on here can correct me if I'm wrong, the NMMNG IS essentially doing a 180, so you're already in the process.
You're a Nice Guy & now you want to shed that identity, hence a 180 with NMMNG.
Men of TAM, do I have that right?
Good for you Po, you're making progress, that should give you a lot of encouragement.
The men on here can correct me if I'm wrong, the NMMNG IS essentially doing a 180, so you're already in the process.
You're a Nice Guy & now you want to shed that identity, hence a 180 with NMMNG.
Men of TAM, do I have that right?
Being a "nice guy" in any sense of trying to buy a relationship (supplicate e.g. with gifts/actions/promises/bargaining etc. when it's to get the relationship) at ANY stage is instinctively and deeply unattractive to women. Women are hard-wired to feel, "BLEH", or at best ambivalent about any guy that does this, even if they like the attention/ego boost. Non-neediness, strength, confidence and pro-social maturity are key. These qualities are attractive to both sexes.
Doing the 180 is more than simply not being supplicating, although that's a significant reason why it is helpful, particularly for men. The 180 is a break-up-handling strategy mainly encapsulating this principle but not being a "Nice Guy" in the sense above is also about improving a man's inner game, confidence with life in general and helping him across the board in all relationships. For example - you don't have to be the classic "bad boy" to not allow people to treat you like a doormat.
Okay, thanks guys, I appreciate it. I am going to make these changes, for myself, because if I don't I am not going to make it... I have given so much of myself away at this point that if she were to decide to walk out that door, in my current mental state, I'd likely lose whatever sanity I have left and I don't know what I would do to myself.
Today she left for her mom's in Wisconsin, and I hope you don't bash on me too much in here but I got the truck all ready yesterday and today so she could go. Changed the oil, made sure the tires were all good as far as pressure, topped off the antifreeze, changed out the throttle positioning sensor, etc. I didn't do it expecting anything from her, I just want to make sure they have a safe trip, it is 10 hours, and our quad cab Ram has 121,000 miles on it. Her, a 4 year old and a 2 year old, I will still worry a bit, I am just not going to fixate on it.
So, for the next two weeks, till Friday the 6th of July, I am here by myself. I will still be working but I am going to be trying to fill my evenings up with better things. I have realized from the Nice Guy book that I let myself be too much of a pushover in a lot of areas in my life and that just needs to stop. I am going to try and find some better friends, people who are well to do and enjoy the same things I do, and try as hard as I can to avoid the "woe is me I am such a victim" mentality. As of now my wife is already talking about this fall, and going back to school, so I think we are okay from that standpoint. I think I'll leave the forum floor to you all for a bit, there is more to say here but I want to spend some time doing a few things around the house, and you know what else? Going to play some Warcraft since I have the place to myself too haha.
23Likes
Time to do the 180 and move on my friend.
