General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I would suggest you use a hidden VAR to her what she is saying to him before you do anything else.
You've spoken with her and she has bluntly told you that she doesn't regard your feelings as important, certainly not as important as her freedom. That's the response a teenager gives to her parents That's at the core of this. A married person shoud be carring about their SOs feelings, even if they give up a little person do as you please freedom.
Since this is now at a lot of texts per day and phone calls, itis quite possibly going EA especially since Ken is going to on the prowl to feel good and prove he still can bag girls.
So use a couple of vars, one in her car and one in the bedroom or wherever you think she goes to talk to him. Posted via Mobile Device
Her initial contact with ex boyfriend was this past December. She told me about their conversation they had on FB. I was able to see most of the chat log, and what she had told me pretty much matched what was typed.
Contact with him since was very sporadic. One text here or there. Until yesterday when they pretty much texted back and forth all day.
A month ago, he posted on FB that his dog was sick, our dog had just died so she chatted to him that we had just lost our dog and she hoped that his was ok. At this point she asked him how were things going. He said not well, his wife had left him...papers served and all. She basically said that she was sorry to hear this. Somewhere in the chat she said that I had looked at the cell phone bill and got upset that she was talking to Wes. The OM said to her, don't get in trouble talking to me, its not worth it. Her reply was that it would all be ok. That she is totally innocent in her mind. A big part of me believes this.
I think the approach should be as a husband and not as a parent. Telling her NO and I forbid it isn't going to get anywhere.
She already is aware of your spying, thus the deletions. She knows you aren't above it, and her method to resolve the upset you get from what you see is to remove it from sight.
The problem isn't that you see the texts, the problem is she's getting them in the first place. She's not making the connection that your relationship with her (you feel) is being intruded upon by this ex.
If you tell her you've been still checking on her and snooping, yes that'll make her angry, not for the reasons some others have mentioned here regarding cheating and EA's, but she'll be angry for you not trusting that she has control of this situation. On her own.
I had similar concerns but there was nowhere near the history so I don't know if what I am saying will help. The problem with setting these sorts of boundaries is that in your wifes mind, they are already there. She probably genuinley believes she won't get into an EA and that she is completely faithful to you so what's the problem? In her mind you are being controlling and trying to stop her from getting into something she knows in her mind won't happen. She looks at these guys as friends and who are you to tell her who she can and cannot be friends with and who are you to monitor and regulate her actions in regards to her friends. Mind you, this is how she thinks. It gets annoying to her so now she finds it easier to just delete the texts then to deal with you.
My wife felt the same way and I did the same things as you because I was sure something was going on because of the secrecy. She started going back and deleting FB messages that I had seen which were totally benign. She even deleted some from a guy that started getting inapropriate with her that she completely shot down.
In the end it was all exactly as she said it was and all I ended up with was me being paranoid and a wife who pulled back and became even more private (which made me more paranoid) since I was so intent on observing every little thing she did.
It has taken alot of time to break this cycle. In the end, you have to decide to just trust her. You have to trust that she will establish those boundaries herself and honor the marriage.
You will relax, she will relax and things will become much more comfortable.
I'm not saying ignore the red flags if you find them, just don't go creating them to justify your own suspicions.
The problem with Emotional Affairs is that they are trojan horses. The vast majority of people start out by communicating with someone who has sexual potential. Doesn't have to be an ex, just someone who meets some bare minimum of qualities. The two people start out with innocuous conversations that are entirely innocent. Pretty much no one wakes up, looks in the mirror, and says, "today I'm going to enter an emotional affair."
The point at which the EA definitively starts is when the two start to discuss things that are inappropriate for a spouse to discuss with someone who is outside the marriage. The likely starting point between these two would be for her to be a shoulder for him to cry on through his divorce. He tells her all about how awful his wife is / was, and she consoles him. She isn't going to say "you both contributed to the situation you're in right now," instead she will avoid criticism and will stick to vacuous validation. Wouldn't you?
Just this topic alone is off limits for discussion with her and crosses the marital boundary. But what it does is it puts her in the role of rescuing him. That is something that gives anyone a boost and makes them feel special.
The next turn would be for her to start confiding in him about her marriage, and he would express support and care in turn (not love, just care). Bang, they are off to the races.
It takes only about 2 or 3 weeks to become completely infatuated with someone. It's not love, because love requires actually knowing someone and accepting them as a totality. But the feeling is very powerful and intoxicating. Many married people assume they will never feel this way again and it's been long enough since they experienced it before that they will tightly hold the EA to their chest just like Gollum with the ring.
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but all that said, A Bit Much makes a difficult point and the answer is tough. When someone is at the brink of an emotional affair, the spouse exhibiting a lack of trust can add fuel to the fire. You would never be the cause of her entering an emotional affair, but perhaps if she says to herself, "I'll show you, I KNOW I can handle this," all of a sudden she is upticking her communications with him in an immature bid to prove you wrong.
I just said this a few minutes ago in another thread, EAs start with the spouse telling you, "not me, not me, not me" looking at you over their shoulder, dead in the eye, but the pit of the EA is in front of them and they're not paying attention to the direction that they're going.
My favorite book on the subject is linked in my signature.
From what I can gather your wife is a "rescuer." It's OK to have empathy and be there for others who are in need, but not at the expense of your own well-being or that of your family. Emotionally investing in other people's problems (unless it's our spouse or close family) is unhealthy, and often indicative of a need to escape from our own issues.
I can well understand your concerns about the texting and telephone calls. IMO, it is totally inappropriate for someone to be in constant contact with members of the opposite sex (particularly ex partners). Whilst it may be totally innocent, it makes the other partner feel disrespected and uncomfortable, and eventually those feelings can lead to feelings of insecurity and jealousy - both of which are killers to a happy, healthy relationship.
Somehow you wife needs to be made fully aware of how this is affecting you (possibly in MC), and stop damaging her relationship with you.
"she'll be angry for you not trusting that she has control of this situation. On her own"
While this may be true, I still think that you need to impress on her that while you do trust her, you don't feel comfortable about this relationship
I would also be concerned that the OM basically said "we shouldn't talk if it bothers your husband" and she said not to worry! Sorry but she is definitely the pursuer in this, innocent or otherwise!
"she'll be angry for you not trusting that she has control of this situation. On her own"
While this may be true, I still think that you need to impress on her that while you do trust her, you don't feel comfortable about this relationship
I would also be concerned that the OM basically said "we shouldn't talk if it bothers your husband" and she said not to worry! Sorry but she is definitely the pursuer in this, innocent or otherwise!
Pursuer? Interesting point. I see it another way. She feels needed. Useful. Supportive. Helpful. And the value of those feelings from being there for a friend have superceded the value of her husbands feelings about this particular friend.
Maybe she doesn't feel that way with her husband?
ETA: I think telling him not to worry is a statement like 'I got this'. She is under control of this entire thing. It's not going anywhere other than where it is, a genuine friendship.
Pursuer? Interesting point. I see it another way. She feels needed. Useful. Supportive. Helpful. And the value of those feelings from being there for a friend have superceded the value of her husbands feelings about this particular friend.
Maybe she doesn't feel that way with her husband?
Some people genuinely aren't getting their needs met. The issue is, frequently the loyal spouse feels the very same way. I know I did! But one person breaks the marital boundaries, but the other one doesn't. That's why apportioning blame to marital problems is at least 50/50, but entering into an affair is 100% the stupid choice of one person, the disloyal spouse.
Then there's the case of people who are damaged or broken in some way. They need to feel valid 24/7 and no one spouse can fill that need. You can work night and day to fix the marriage, but the fixing really needs to happen INSIDE the spouse who breaks the marital boundaries. Good look with that if they don't think they need fixing. (And some people can't be fixed, period.)
It may be that because this is on the brink, if he comes in and works on the marriage to turn things around, it could make a difference. In that case, the excellent books to read are:
His Needs / Her Needs by Dr. Harley (have your wife take the free Her Needs questionniare on the website)
Love Busters by Dr. Harley (ditto re website questionnaire)
5 Love Languages (free website quiz, a jump start to improving your marriage; people frequently express love to others the way they want to receive it, but often both spouses don't match up)
And our MC swears that The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by Gottman will put him out of business.
But emotional affairs are powerful things, a marriage will not show noticeable improvement if 3 people are in it, and the fantasy is so powerful that the disloyal spouse doesn't much notice nor do they contribute their fair share of improving things. She may not be in one--I need to keep saying that--but realize that if she were to enter into one this would be the case.
She is not talking to him on phone at all. It is only text messages and occasionally FB messages.
She needs to let you see them, if they are harmless then there should be nothing to hide and if she respects your marriage she will do what she can to appease you.
A man fresh from a D is going to want to hook up, I would be concern about his motivations. What she is doing is inappropriate for a married woman and needs to come clean asap. Do not tolerate her hiding communications with him.
She needs to let you see them, if they are harmless then there should be nothing to hide and if she respects your marriage she will do what she can to appease you.
One thing that is stopping me from doing that is this. The time I told her that I snooped and looked at phone records, I told her I would not do it again. So if I confront her about the texts then it shows i've been dishonest and went back on my word. So that will blow up in my face. I by all means want to make this marriage last forever. If I'm wrong, and she is in fact innocent then I'm definitely the bad guy and can not be trusted.
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Re: Am I being insecure or am I terribly wrong? 
