General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
The PA would occur somewhere in the cheating phase. But realize that the affair partners may have no intention of being unfaithful let alone cheating at the beginning. It starts with poor boundaries and manifests itself in inappropriate behavior. Dating starts here. Hiding the dating is during unfaithfulness.
One can argue that is cheating already and I would no argument, but unfaithfulness is more general. Lying is unfaithful.
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Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
I thought I was in a pseudo-EA with my best friend, but one poster said that by my responses there was nothing pseudo about it. There is no targeted outcome in my situation because the OM and I only speak via texting and have sine we met (online). There are feelings between us now, conversation between us has escalated to an inappropriate level in the past 6 months, but we both agreed to take a step back and focus on our friendship because that has always been more important.
Excluding the recent line-crossing, I didn't feel as though I was having an EA because both of us are trying to help each other with our marriages not meet up for a PA or jump ship on our marriages to be together.
So I guess my understanding was wrong.
Yes, you were in an EA. You were bonding with another person by sharing intimate things about your marriage. That is bad on many levels. Confiding in a same sex friend is not the same as an opposite sex friend. If your best male friend is not your husband you are already upside down on things. Having close opposite sex friends is tempting fate. Inappropriate IMO. Once you have secrets with another man from you husband you are pretty much being unfaithful.
My wife is my best friend period. I need to be at least her best male friend. She has a BFF female friend she grew up with. I am fine with her being my wifes best female friend. I think people need both. I just feel the best opposite sex friend needs to be their spouse. In fact it seems ludicrous to me if they are not.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 06-08-2012 at 01:47 PM.
But I will say that not everyone in an EA (at the beginning of one) isn't "blind" to the feeling/connection. It can be something small you have in common w/ someone. Or maybe the same sense of humor, etc. Because let's face it--some people are aware they connect with someone on some level... so that is why the "avoiding" it altogether is the solution. If you feel, and especially if you feel, any sort of connection with someone--stay fvcking far away if you are married/partnered.
I agree. I do think there are inappropriate rationaizations involved. Some folks are naive. Some folks realize they are in over their heads but do not want to stop. Yes, it is not black and white but rather a slurry of things. The actions are being driven by the good feelings they have from the brain chemicals. Poor choices occur where the priority of those choices is changing from being faithful to a spouse and more faithful to the rush. Bad stuff. Humbling stuff. Stupid stuff.
Maybe they realize they should not be doing this but their ego gets involved. I can stop anytime I want. I just don't want ot stop now.
Yes, you are correct. There are choices made all along the way. But it becomes moving friction. A slippery slope. This is a fall from innocence. The APs choose to ignore the signs and can for a time be in denial. But as things move along innocence erodes.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 06-08-2012 at 01:52 PM.
A secret relationship between someone in a committed relationship and a member of the opposite sex that impacts on the level of intimacy in the relationship due to the time and emotional energy they are investing in that friendship. Often someone in an EA will discuss problems in their relationship with the friend, rather than working on the problem with their spouse / partner.
This is dead on.
I would add that the friendship may be absolutely in the clear for all to see. But a secret relationship can occur within this one. Others can eventually see it for what it really is.
Sometimes a person will hide the relationship completely. To me this is very sinister. To keep it hidden from the start says something about intent.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
I thought I was in a pseudo-EA with my best friend, but one poster said that by my responses there was nothing pseudo about it. There is no targeted outcome in my situation because the OM and I only speak via texting and have sine we met (online). There are feelings between us now, conversation between us has escalated to an inappropriate level in the past 6 months, but we both agreed to take a step back and focus on our friendship because that has always been more important.
Excluding the recent line-crossing, I didn't feel as though I was having an EA because both of us are trying to help each other with our marriages not meet up for a PA or jump ship on our marriages to be together.
So I guess my understanding was wrong.
Definitely an EA, if you started feeling feeling for this person, you're having an EA. Thats how they always start, a talk, a meet up, and than a PA.
You shouldn't have feeling like that for anyone else bur your wife, but if you do you need to start and realize why you're feeling these feelings-are you lonely, is your wife not giving you something, etc. OR if you're feeling this feelings because you are REALLY in love with your wife anymore.
EA is as bad as PA. Figure out the bottom of your problem. And figure out what YOU really want. Who is more important this woman or your wife? If it's your wife than end that lil friendship of yours, it will only lead to no good.
And if you even think there is a chance with that other woman, or if you feel feeling for her than end your marriage. Don't waste your wives nor your own time and don't even risk of hurting her like this.
Find out the exact reason for your unhapiness and this EA and do something about it. If you want to continue this EA than file for divorce, because give it a year or two and it will turn into PA with this lady or someone else.
Ok see this is interesting to read, and that's been my own definition as well.
This is your excuse for seeing it that way. But you clearly are having EMOTIONS for this OTHER woman-not just talking to her and confining in her, that is a NO NO, and might as well be cheating.
Yes, this is what bothers me about my wife's EA so much even after we've worked on our marriage for so long. She was leaving this guy out of discussions about events he attended intentionally and well before the EA was active. I can almost understand the lying once things were definitely inappropriate. But I've never accepted the lying so far in advance of there being anything apparently wrong. It left him a ton of time to work on getting what he wanted from her, and she aided him in this rather than it being something that developed over time like in some other EAs.
I am with you brother. That is actually being unfaithful from the start.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
So are you really saying that getting advice from anyone (friends, family, people on a website) who isn't a trained professional is infidelity?
Any man not your close relative. How about that? An exception would be a trained professional formally engaged by you. Meaning do not share with your doctor friend either.
You are looking to have needs met in an inappropriate and risky way. Yes, I see this as being unfaithful. Not even a gray area for me.
Be aware if this is an actively ongoing situation you will not see it for what it is until you go NC and go through withdrawal. Your intergity is compromised. You are under the influence of chemicals. Been there.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 06-08-2012 at 02:20 PM.
Well said. Emotional infidelity would proceed and emotional affair. Other than with a trained professional, taking one's marital issues to an outsider rather than to one's partner is infidelity. Unfortunately this is so common it is considered to be OK.
My H thinks its ok to do this, even with our past infidelity issues.
That is why I'm moving out and divorcing him.
Friendship over wife??? Yeah right, I'm out. Not going down the road of another PA in a few months since he won't cut contact.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 06-08-2012 at 02:36 PM.
I don't think there's automatically a lack of intimacy in the primary relationship in order for a person to get involved in an EA, though a lack of intimacy certainly makes it more likely. A person who is happy with their primary relationship could still meet someone unexpectedly who happens to touch a nerve in them that they want to itch - a longing for excitement, perhaps.
CORRECT -- An affair partner only has to meet some small number of needs EAs can happen in very good marriages. We keep seeing folks who insist they need a whole stable of close oppostie sex friendships for some reason. They have some need for this being filled.
Going to friends, families, or forums isn't likely to build the kind of intimacy that has the person fantasizing romance with someone outside their marriage. Also, friends, families, and forums are more likely to turn the person back to working on the problems with their partner, but when an EA begins, there is a conflict of interest that prevents sound advice from taking place. If I want to be with you, am I really going to help you get your marriage back to great so that I won't ever be able to act on those fantasies of romance?
Though many will deny this again and again there is an immediate conflict of interest just because of gender.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 06-08-2012 at 02:19 PM.
Actually that's exactly the case with my best friend of 5 years (OM mentioned in my background thread). My spouse has always been the first person I speak to about an issue, but he no longer likes to communicate with me about much of anything. Due to that, I seek input from others (after trying to talk to him) to see if I'm being subjective and not letting my feelings and emotions interfere too much with my thoughts. My family gives less sound advice than my best friend has in terms of marriage saving/defense. They would have rather I jumped ship years ago.
That must mean that what I'm experiencing is an exception to the normal flow of things, right?
No. This sounds like a typical EA. If your best male friend is not your husband you have other issues. You are rationalizing now which is another check mark indicating you are in pretty deep. You should not be confiding in an OM about your marriage. The fact that he is your best friend is very disconcerting.
You do realize that you guys have probably destroyed you friendship by this? Meaning you are going to have to go NC with each other so you can witdraw ... forever. You do not want to hear this,.
A requiremnet for an EA is that you think your are immune or somehow different. CHECK
Also realize that this relationship is going to push you further from your husband. Why? Because your internal dialogue has to rationalize your feelings for the OM. So it is called history rewriting. You are having marital problems so you are connecting with another man. Nothing too complicated about it. Yes your are confused in your mind because of your feelings.
if you are torn apart by the idea of losing your friend then that should tell you something. You will try to rationalize how important a friend is and so on. Indeed he is very important to you. That is the problem.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 06-08-2012 at 02:16 PM.
It is anyone you become obsessed with spending time with, about which you do NOT tell your spouse. If your spouse knows about all the time you spend with this person, knows what you talk about, and knows what you do, it's not an EA. Just an open marriage.
Actually that's exactly the case with my best friend of 5 years (OM mentioned in my background thread). My spouse has always been the first person I speak to about an issue, but he no longer likes to communicate with me about much of anything. Due to that, I seek input from others (after trying to talk to him) to see if I'm being subjective and not letting my feelings and emotions interfere too much with my thoughts. My family gives less sound advice than my best friend has in terms of marriage saving/defense. They would have rather I jumped ship years ago.
That must mean that what I'm experiencing is an exception to the normal flow of things, right?
Nope, as Entropy said, you are rationalizing here. My second EA started with a friend who was giving advice on how to improve things with my husband. Little by little, it became less about my husband and me and more about this guy and me...our mutual likes and dislikes, music, kids, everything. My husband and I were both friends with this guy and I thought talking to him would be ok because my husband had informed him of some of the issues he had been having. So, I just picked up where hubby left off...and it grew bigger and bigger. I never thought this would happen, not after the first one. I actually never expected the first one to happen. But this guy became my best friend. I told him everything. It started out with advice regarding my marriage, and eventually ended with him influencing pretty much every decision in my life, more than my husband was. By rationalizing that it "must mean what [you are] experiencing is an exception" to the norm, you are deluding yourself. Been there, done that... And I am in the process, STILL of repairing. Not just my actions, but my husband's. He got involved with a woman in the same manner. I thought it would be ok for my husband to have a female friend to confide in. That was while I was in my EA fog. Once that fog lifted and I saw what was BEGINNING with my husband, I knew where it was headed and it was ended because he knew, just as I finally did, that our marriage is more important than ANY friendship...whether 2 months or 20 years. It doesn't matter. Your loyalty is to your husband, not your friend.
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Re: What's an EA? 
