General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Im new to the site, however i have read alot of posts to try and figure out my situation and how to deal with it, without having to post. However i have not quite found a thread to help me with my own problem thus the post. And thus the story begins :-).
I am 22 years old my wife is 20, we got married 2 years ago after dating for a year. I am in the military and though i have never deployed we did spend alot of time away from each other while we were dating. We started out like every new couple starts out. Madly in love with each other, hearts on our sleeves and forever in our minds. Both of us were so certain that we were each other's soulmates. That our love could get through everything. However after we got married and she moved in with me (1100 miles away from everything shes ever known) we had some amazing times, again just being open with each other, finding the little things that we didnt like about each other from living together we noted them and told each other them. Then i started to pull away, close myself off from her. I was unhappy about alot of things that she did or didnt do. She noticed that i was unhappy about these things and did everything that she could to fix it for me. Over the time we had our ups and our downs, much more ups than downs :-). Both of us trying to fix whatever imperfections the other saw in us, but she did this more than i did. I feel as if maybe because i had some life experience before we got together that maybe she felt that i was right and whatever she felt was wrong. Im not sure. However getting into the thick of things. Into year two i continued to close myself off and question weather our marriage was what i wanted. I stopped putting her first and put myself first which has never been the person that i am. I started doing things to keep myself happy and not caring about her feelings and she simply backed off and let me do what she thought was making me truely happy. She stopped trying to fix the issues that she had in our marriage to sacrifice for me. Over the last 8 months her grandpa (who was also her father figure) has been dealing with a particularly bad case of leukemia. At this point we are still miles away from her family (which is a very tight family) and she really starts to get unhappy. This is what i have found that definatly made her unhappy.
1. We had been trying to have a baby for a year and instead had 2 possibly 3 miscarriages. It was devastating to both of us and i did everything that i could to console her through all of these.
2. For the majority of our marriage i had been slowly growing more emotionally distant from her, and stopped taking care of her needs and doing everything i could to make her happy.
3. Her grandfather slowly dieing.
4. She knew that i was trying to figure out if we were a mistake.
5. She was miles away from her family her friends and she was living with someone who can be a complete jerk sometimes, and really sweet others.
6. I was trying to teach her how to cope with pain and unhappiness, and ended up physically hurting her. Though not on purpose i would never purposely hurt my wife physically or mentally. However i did end up making her feel like i was trying to hurt her when i was trying to help. This happened maybe 3 times and it wasnt from fighting it wasnt from me being angry or trying to control her. I didnt do anything like punch her or beat her but i held her down and i can honestly see why she would be scared and hurt from it.
7. I had threatened divorce while i was pulling away from her.
8. I had stopped caring about her, and her needs to try and figure out why i was unhappy
9. She felt like she was the only one putting any effort into us.
10. She was working full time and going to school full time and had no time to spend on herself taking care of her needs. (she also hated her job)
11. She started seeing a counselor because she wouldnt tell me what was making her unhappy, or she didnt know. She got diagnosed with depression and started having to take medication for it.
All of this led up to last month her grandpa was in the worst part of his leukemia and so we got her a ticket home, she quit her full time job (at request from me because i had started to come around and notice how unhappy she was and try to fix things)and she went home to see him and help take care of her family while they go through this rough time. While she was there she began to realize that she was happier there without me. She started seeing her friends and everything that her friends have gotten to experience living on their own and she just over all felt happier there. One night after about a month of her being back home she called and told me that she wants to stay there, go to school, live on her own and figure out who she is. Naturally knowing that she was unhappy with me i called and i asked questions like why do you need to do that there, why cant you do that here? so on and so forth. I got out of her that she felt like she would be happier alone instead of in our marriage she needs space and she needs to figure out if being alone is what is going to make her happy. She was now doing what i was doing over the period of our marriage. She finally opened up to me and told me all the things that i had done in our marriage that made her unhappy. She opened my eyes to the man that i had turned into. Over that day, that night, and the next day i finally did my own soul searching. I found out that i was unhappy with myself because of the man that i was now. I was emotionless, i was selfish, and i wasn't being true to my beliefs or myself. I decided that there is no way that i could possibly be happier alone, and that this was my wife, my soulmate. I found the man that i have always been again in our old letters. I found the caring, selfless man that i had always been before our marriage, before i joined the service. I decided that that is the man that i want to be and that that was the man that i am. The one who knows he is married to the love of his life, that has full faith and trust in his feelings, who wears his emotions on his sleeve and cares for everyone else more than he cares for himself.
I decided to go to her, even though she asked for space, i decided that it was my time to finally put the effort in and fix my marriage or i was going to lose my soulmate. After arriving there she was very distant, after trying to talk through things with her i found that she was pissed that i didnt give her the space that she had asked for. That i was doing this all for myself and not for her. I told her no i do this for us because i dont want our marriage to end, and i know that you feel the same way because you have been fighting for this for the last year, doing everything that you could to try and fix things except telling me what was wrong (until now) so that i could help fix us. On top of her being pissed at me i found that she was talking to an ex of hers, who is currently dating someone else. They are just friends, however she says that she still has feelings for him and she always will. She told me that she loves me but she doesnt think that she is in-love with me anymore. Then she told me she wanted a divorce, and i fought again to save our marriage. I told her that i dont think that that is what she truly wants, then she convinced me to give her, her space and let her figure everything out so that she doesnt make a rash decision. I spent two days away from her durring my trip there, after that two days things seemed like we were getting back on the right track. We made love multiple times while i was there (over a period of two weeks) and every time we did I felt like it was passionate and that we connected again. We both climaxed (her multiple times) every time we made love and we have always had a good sexual relationship. I feel like that is the best way for me to connect but i understand that she needs more than just a sexual relationship. I tried to convince her that i am changed and that I am proud of the man i see in the mirror now. However she isnt convinced that I will last like this.
I am completely sure that if we can work through this (from what ive researched its the disillusionment phase) and figure out that we are soulmates, and that we want to stay true to our vows, and we do love each other, that we can make it through any and all of lifes obstacles and have a marriage that we both are happy in. I found out that what makes me truely and completely happy... is making my wife, my significant other, my soulmate, happy. Making her day wonderful and amazing no matter what it takes out of me. I understand that this is probably not healthy, but it is truely what i know makes me truely and completely happy. I love my wife more than anything, and i want to help her work all of this out but she doesnt want my help. I want to help her figure out, what she needs to figure out in order to decide if she will be happier with me or without. If she decides that what will make her happier is me leaving then that is what i will do. I want to stay true to my vows and i dont want to leave her it will devastate me to do that but if that is what is going to make her happy in the long run it is what i have to do for the love of my life. Its been 2 weeks since i left her back at home to give her, her space and let her figure things out. Every time we talk it seems to me that she isnt actively trying to figure things out, and she is unable to make a decision. This makes me feel like she made her decision but she loves me to much to want to hurt me which leads me to believe that for the sake of her happiness i should just leave and not come back. I told her that today and she told me that.. she doesnt know if that is what she wants, so I'm stuck wanting to fix my marriage and wanting to do everything that i can to make her happy. Waiting for her to figure things that out that she wont open up to me about. Do i continue to just wait for her to figure things out or do i ask her to confide in me, that my only intention is to make her happy regardless of what it takes from me, i know that if she opens up to me that i can help her find her happiness because i feel like ive been where she is right now.
I dont know what to do here, and im hoping someone who has been through something like this before can give me some good advice. I love her and i cant imagine a life without her, but ill do anything to make her happy again. She deserves to be happy, she deserves to love life again, and i dont know that she will be able to in being with me.
Thank you for reading, and for any responses. If you have any questions i will be answering them as quickly as possible.
I'm thinking that you're far more controlling than you realize. That's great when you're on a mission, but it's not so great when you're treating your life as if you're her CO. You say you've changed back, but the truth is that you are who you are, and she's learned that you're the type of person who jumps in with both feet and takes charge of anything that might get in the way of your mission - which in this case happens to be your marriage - but that you will otherwise let things slide.
I think you're minimizing whatever happened physically. You hurt her more than you've said here, and when you didn't get your way you manipulated and controlled her by abandoning her. Instinctively, we all know that people might say they've changed and believe it, but when they're talking about deep-rooted personality traits those promises are most often just wishful thinking. When you add that she takes a huge risk if she believes you (because it takes her so far from her family and friends), I can understand why she's reluctant to believe.
Then the matter becomes even more complicated because she's having an emotional (and/or physical) affair with her ex. While that's going on, she isn't going to come around to be the devoted, compliant wife you're looking for. In fact, she's already decided she doesn't want to be compliant anymore. Whatever changes you've made might be irrelevant to her because she has made some changes, too.
If you want her back, I'd recommend getting into counseling immediately, for yourself, with a therapist who is very familiar with anger management AND alcohol issues. (I know you didn't mention alcohol, but I'd bet that it's playing a major role here.)
You could also ask her if she'd be willing to try again if you'll set up a bank account with only her name on it, and fund it with enough money that if she discovered that you hadn't changed, she could fly back home on a moment's notice. This would give her a measure of safety.
First off, stop with the "soulmate" crap.....they don't exist, and she doesn't want to hear it.
Second, I agree with the poster above, however I might add that this sounds a lot like a simple cased of wanting her now that she's gone.
I have gotten into counseling and am actively working to keep the changes that i have already made. I dont think that i am making the physical part sound any less than what i did, and it wasnt out of anger that i did it. However i will agree that i was being controlling in our relationship. I only drink on special occations and never drink to get drunk therefore no alcohol problems. Thank you for your post Kathy. I will ask her how she would feel if we open her up her own account and keep enough money in there for her to leave if she feels the need to. I was manipulating and controlling her but i personally didnt see it that way until i started working with my counselor. Realizing now what i've done, who i've been, and who i want to be is what changed me. I do believe that i have changed.
I would say that it is a case of wanting her now that she's gone, however i started trying to figure out what was making her unhappy and being there for her before she left. I will say that her wanting to leave on top of her explaining why she was unhappy did open my eyes to what i was doing. Which is why i cant blame her for wanting to be away, and wanting to be happy.
I talked with her last night and she says that she wants to open back up to me again, she has issues with opening up while talking so she wants to write everything that shes feeling out and email it to me. Regarding the EA, she has told me that they are just friends and i believe it. I understand that she loves him and she says that she always has and always will but she also says that she can be friends with him while being 100% committed to making things work with me. I know that it isnt a PA. She has also told me that she is leaning more towards working things out with me, but she has more that she wants to figure out before she makes her decision. She doesnt want to make a rash decision and i understand that. All that i can do at this point is continue to work on myself, find out everything that i did wrong, realize that it was wrong, and not let it happen again. I am a good man.
@KathyBatesel: Anything else you can give me on this? I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions.
Regarding the EA, she has told me that they are just friends and i believe it. I understand that she loves him and she says that she always has and always will but she also says that she can be friends with him while being 100% committed to making things work with me.
@KathyBatesel: Anything else you can give me on this? I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions.
I do believe you're a good man, by the way. And I'm especially impressed that you're in counseling. That goes a long way toward showing that you mean it when you say you're dedicated to being the BEST man you can be for your wife. (My words, not yours, but I am thinking you meant that in your post.)
I understand that she may be friends with an ex and have loving feelings for him, but I'm still concerned about this. You are, too, because you mentioned it as a complicating factor. If her interactions with him are not helping to improve your marriage or if they "remind" her of what might have been or could be if... then it's an emotional affair in my book.
I believe you're on the right track. Her stepping back and taking time to regain her perspective will be helpful to both of you. It will give her a chance to evaluate the things you're changing without feeling pressured to fake a reaction in order to keep you happy. When that pressure is there, it's easy to want to get away from it, and when it's absent, it's easier to focus on the positives that existed in the relationship.
When you get her letter, I encourage you to ignore blame and not get defensive. Avoid pointing out what is "wrong" in it and instead, acknowledge that her views are as valid to her as your own are to you, and focus on finding win-win solutions that meet both your needs.
How are you going to learn how to give up control? How much control MUST you have and how much can you live without? How much control does she feel she needs? And can both of your answers be compatible?
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Also a further question. Since she says that she is leaning toward working things out with me and making our marriage last, but she needs to figure a few more things out before she will be able to do that; do I try to help? Or is me trying to help her figure these things out me taking control again? If i should try and help then how do i go about it with letting her lead it and me following along? Its like i've said above her happiness is my top priority, i want her to be happy however she needs to do that, which is why i feel like she should be actively working out all of these thoughts and feelings that she is having with me. I honestly believe that if she works with me in trying to figure these things out that we are going to find out what really makes her happy, and if that happens to be leaving me then we both know for sure and I will be able to leave.
Does that make any sense? Or is this me trying to be controlling again? In which case what do i do in order to let her control not only this situation but also more of what is going on in our lives. I understand that neither of us have had a choice on where we live because im in the military. I get out in about 6 months and i can get a job doing IT work pretty much anywhere, i already have job offers stacking up and all of that. I have told her that i want her to choose where we move when I get out of the military and it can be anywhere she wants. She has given me where she wants to move and I am actively seeking employment there. I am letting go of the reigns and letting her do a lot of the decision making, i have for the better part of a year now.
I do believe you're a good man, by the way. And I'm especially impressed that you're in counseling. That goes a long way toward showing that you mean it when you say you're dedicated to being the BEST man you can be for your wife. (My words, not yours, but I am thinking you meant that in your post.)
Thank you for this, and yes that is exactly what i was meaning in my post.
Quote:
I understand that she may be friends with an ex and have loving feelings for him, but I'm still concerned about this. You are, too, because you mentioned it as a complicating factor. If her interactions with him are not helping to improve your marriage or if they "remind" her of what might have been or could be if... then it's an emotional affair in my book.
Yes this is a concern to me too, but what can i do about it. She is adamant that she wants to keep a friendship here, because she doesn't want to abandon him and she doesn't want to hurt him. I know my wife she is the sweetest most caring woman i have ever met, so i understand that she doesn't want to hurt and abandon him and i while i don't agree that they can just be friends and just put their feelings aside like that, she told me that she could and i can only trust her word on it. Is this wrong of me?
Quote:
When you get her letter, I encourage you to ignore blame and not get defensive. Avoid pointing out what is "wrong" in it and instead, acknowledge that her views are as valid to her as your own are to you, and focus on finding win-win solutions that meet both your needs.
How are you going to learn how to give up control? How much control MUST you have and how much can you live without? How much control does she feel she needs? And can both of your answers be compatible?
I know you say to ignore the blame and not get defensive... but to be honest i blame myself for 99.9% of what has gone wrong in our marriage. This is why I am taking the steps that I feel that i need to take in order to be the best man that i can be for her.
Regarding your questions i just posted (see above post from me) about giving up control and how to go about it. To be honest the only control that i need, is to know that we are both in this for better or for worse until death. Past that she control whatever she wants and tell me what she wants to control. As soon as she tells me what she wants me to control (as you said earlier) I will jump in head first and do it to the best of my ability, without letting things fall to the wayside.
@posse
I don't know if I personally want to do marriage counseling with her being away. I would prefer to go in person if at all. I have not heard good things about marriage counseling and was trying to look more into marriage programs / marriage enrichment courses as opposed to counseling. Would you suggest doing both?
Also a further question. Since she says that she is leaning toward working things out with me and making our marriage last, but she needs to figure a few more things out before she will be able to do that; do I try to help? Or is me trying to help her figure these things out me taking control again? If i should try and help then how do i go about it with letting her lead it and me following along?
Try, "I understand. Let me know if there's anything I can do."
I do believe you're a good man, by the way. And I'm especially impressed that you're in counseling. That goes a long way toward showing that you mean it when you say you're dedicated to being the BEST man you can be for your wife. (My words, not yours, but I am thinking you meant that in your post.)
Thank you for this, and yes that is exactly what i was meaning in my post.
Quote:
I understand that she may be friends with an ex and have loving feelings for him, but I'm still concerned about this. You are, too, because you mentioned it as a complicating factor. If her interactions with him are not helping to improve your marriage or if they "remind" her of what might have been or could be if... then it's an emotional affair in my book.
Yes this is a concern to me too, but what can i do about it. She is adamant that she wants to keep a friendship here, because she doesn't want to abandon him and she doesn't want to hurt him. I know my wife she is the sweetest most caring woman i have ever met, so i understand that she doesn't want to hurt and abandon him and i while i don't agree that they can just be friends and just put their feelings aside like that, she told me that she could and i can only trust her word on it. Is this wrong of me?
Quote:
When you get her letter, I encourage you to ignore blame and not get defensive. Avoid pointing out what is "wrong" in it and instead, acknowledge that her views are as valid to her as your own are to you, and focus on finding win-win solutions that meet both your needs.
I know you say to ignore the blame and not get defensive... but to be honest i blame myself for 99.9% of what has gone wrong in our marriage. This is why I am taking the steps that I feel that i need to take in order to be the best man that i can be for her.
@posse
I don't know if I personally want to do marriage counseling with her being away. I would prefer to go in person if at all. I have not heard good things about marriage counseling and was trying to look more into marriage programs / marriage enrichment courses as opposed to counseling. Would you suggest doing both? Also she doesn't know if she wants to do MC right now.
Yes this is a concern to me too, but what can i do about it. She is adamant that she wants to keep a friendship here, because she doesn't want to abandon him and she doesn't want to hurt him. I know my wife she is the sweetest most caring woman i have ever met, so i understand that she doesn't want to hurt and abandon him and i while i don't agree that they can just be friends and just put their feelings aside like that, she told me that she could and i can only trust her word on it. Is this wrong of me?
Nope. I'd say go with your gut. If you try to do otherwise right now, it gets into more control issues. If you believe she's capable of holding herself appropriately, your trust will mean a lot to her. I have stayed friends with a number of my ex-boyfriends and both of my ex-husbands. I don't confess to loving them, although I suppose I'll always care to some degree, and it doesn't mean I'd be disloyal to my spouse. I would *not* talk about my relationship with them, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adament
I know you say to ignore the blame and not get defensive... but to be honest i blame myself for 99.9% of what has gone wrong in our marriage. This is why I am taking the steps that I feel that i need to take in order to be the best man that i can be for her.
Defensiveness is when people defend against accepting blame. If you're fully acknowledging your role in problems that developed even when the "truth" hurts or isn't perfectly accurate, then there won't be defensiveness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adament
@posse
I don't know if I personally want to do marriage counseling with her being away. I would prefer to go in person if at all. I have not heard good things about marriage counseling and was trying to look more into marriage programs / marriage enrichment courses as opposed to counseling. Would you suggest doing both? Also she doesn't know if she wants to do MC right now.
I believe marriage counseling rarely works because only one person really wants to see things work. The other attends to prove the other wrong. People go to air their power struggles and defend themselves in most cases. This isn't what's happening with your marriage, though, and because you're claiming responsibility for it, I think you'll find good results.
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Married for 2 years, Need advice. 
Re: Married for 2 years, Need advice. 
