Originally Posted by Reggiethelion

I didn't go along with it from the beginning, it was supposed to be a running group but all the other people dropped out/couldn't keep up. I have no veto power, I tried very directly, and she has decided this is what she is doing. I am not at the point where I am going to leave over this, but I don't feel like I have veto power at this point, no.

Originally Posted by Bambusa

Boundaries are not something you can force on someone else. They're a personal thing. Something you do to protect your own authentic self.

You can't tell her that she has to do something and that if she does, it is a sign she doesn't love or respect you. I believe that's manipulative.

It maybe that she simply respects herself enough to continue doing something that is really important to her.

The fact that she doesn't give up something that is important to husband over something that is important to her is not a form of cheating, or disrespect.

If there is a lack of trust, that's different and it really sounds like what this might be all about.

If you don't trust her then that's the point that may need addressing. Her giving up training with this person isn't going to make your lack of trust in her go away.

Originally Posted by Entropy3000

By definition she is being unfaithful to him right now.

He has every right to assert that he finds her time with this single guy unaccecptable. She is choosing this OM over him. That is disrespectful and unfaithful. It started as being just inappropriate.

You can fall on the side of people can do whatever they want, anytime they want with whomever they want despite thier spouses objections. That is not a partnership if this is the case. Suppose she decides to hang out at his house and shower there after they run? Suppose the time togther increases? Where IS the boundary here?

There are three types of boundaries in scope.

1) His personal boundaries. i.e. what he finds acceptable or unacceptable in her behavior. These are his boundaries. He can choose to tell her what is unacceptable.

2) Her boundaries. If she values the OM more than her husband we understand her priorities but these are hers boundaries

3) The couples agreed upon boundaries. Best to have them up front and not decide on them on the fly. I suspect that she has adjusted her boundaries recently with her other lifes decisions like deciding she needs to get fit again. I think getting fit is great but it too can be a red flag. maybe this is her changing her boundaries and her priorities.

Ask youself it the genders were reversed would your opinion be the same. If the wife was wanting the husband to not be with an OW seven days a week binding like this. I can assure you mine would be exactly the same.

I do not think this is appropriate for an LTR but certainly not a marriage.

I would agrue that she is now forcing her boundaries on her husband. Why is that ok but not vice versa? I suggest it is her boundaries that have changed without his agreement.

Originally Posted by Bambusa

By definition, being unfaithful is having sexual relations with a person other than ones partner in contravention of a previous promise or understanding.

Negative, Being unfaithful is doing anything that is not faithful to your spouse. That includes lying or choosing to be with another person. Unfaithful does not equal sexual intercourse. Unfaithfulness is also when you disrespect your spouse.

If she was involved in a sexual relationship with this person I could see the reason for the unfaithful comment.

She is training with someone for a marathon who happens to be of the opposite sex.

Right and she is spending time with him seven days a week. Her husband just happens to not be ok with this. That matters. She is bonding with this man. Realize that not only is she risking her marriage, but if she is in an EA she will need to quit her job to go NC and then go through withdrawal. This is not stuff to play games with. My EA was with a colleague that just happened to be a woman. Her colleague at work just happens to be a man. She is chosing her training partner to be a single man. Moreover it is the same man from work. Too much bonding going on here for comfort.

I don't see how this is unfaithful or inappropriate.

That is ok. It is not a requirement. Her husband says this is an impasse. That is all that matters. If he was ok with this then great.

I agree that he has every right to voice his thoughts and feelings about something. He's done that.

It goes beyond voicing thoughts in a marriage. Again this is not a friendship. It is a marriage where there are children involved. He is being ignored and disrespected. He has a problem with this opposite sex relationship.

Telling her what she can and can't do and then expecting her to jump on board simply because they are married is unrealistic.

Marriage for at least many of us is a partnership. There are things that a spouse has a right to expect us not to do. These pertain to opposite sex relationships. These are not the type of things you wean someone off. They are emotional bonds.

"Just because you are married". Understand that for many of us marriage is our absolute #1 priority. There is no just becasue about it. I get that it may not be for you or many others. It may not be for his wife.

I don't fall on the side of people doing anything and everything they want. I just don't agree with your stance on this is cheating or that she is choosing this over him. She is sticking with something that is important to her, so she may have chosen to meet her own needs over his but not necessarily chosen this over him as a person.

I never said this was cheating ... yet. I said it is unfaithful by definition. This is not a black and white world. There is a continuum of gray here.

Inappropriate Behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating.

It was IMO inappropriate for her to put herself in this situation. The situation itself is now inappropriate. It was a group but now just the two of them. We can see the slippery slope her from an innocent situation to a tenuous one. She could have decided on her own this was not a good idea.

BUT, once he objected to this and she ignored his requests it became unfaithful. You can agree or not agree with his position but she is chosing to ignore his wishes as it pertains to this opposite sex relationship. This is now causing damage to the marriage.

It is not a swicth Cheating / Not Cheating. EAs start in the inappropirate stage and are best dealt with there by boundaries. Once you get into unfaithful you have big issues. Now if she were to start hiding emails and texts or meeting this guy in secret this would also be unfaithful. Some would call it cheating as well. Some wait for cheating to be a physical act like kissing. I am ok with that definition but I think cheating is just a more extreme level of unfaithfulness.

You can bring in all the supposes you want but it's not really valid to the points raised. She hasn't chosen to have a shower at his place. You can't judge her on something she hasn't done or something she MAY do in the future.

My point was "where are the boundaries?". When can he object in your opinion? You are supporting that she can do what she feels is ok. I am suggesting that spouses cannot just do what feels ok because of the brain chemicals. We have impaired thinking when this happens. We need to respect our spouses. Err on the side of caution here.

I agree with boundary 1. I find boundary 2 lacks objectivity and that 1 and 2 should be the same.

People have their own personal boundaries for themselves. Being close to each others means they have compatible boundaries.

It is best to discuss, define and implement agreed upon boundaries up front. If they had perhaps he would not have had to object. I can tell you that since my wife and I have doen His Needs Her Needs we flat do not have to discuss much of this type of stuff. We know where the boundaires are.

I chose to deduce from his posts that this is not something she normally does. He can correct me on this. She is changing the rules now in her 30s. They may of may not have agreed upon boundaries. That said if she has changed her behaviors he has every right to expect changes to be agreed upon. Some folks like POJA. Policy Of Joint Agreement for very important things in a marriage.

I also agree with the first sentence in boundary 3 but find the rest again is a bit unfair.

We don't know this woman, so it's a bit unfair to generalise about her, especially when those comments have not been reflected by the original poster.

My comments are based on what the OP has written. That she chooses to ignore his feelings. I suspect he has not been firm enough frankly. There may be a lot going on with her and him that we have not been given any clues about.

I don't see things as a gender issue. As I said before. My husband and I BOTH have friends of the opposite sex and neither of us has a problem with that. Neither of us see it as a form of cheating and neither of us distrust each other.

Cool. That is your choice. I once thought this way as well. I have opposite sex friends but not close ones. There is no hanging out with other women for me. The OP can weigh in on how he feels about hanging out with opposite sex friends. He may surprise us. That said this situation is tough because of the sheer hours they spend together at work and running. This guy is also single. I think a married guy would still be a problem but single is a big problem. I suggest she be grateful her husband supports her in her running. She could show that by ditching this guy.

The husband wants her to stop and she doesn't want to.

Correct. So she is being unfaithful to her husband by wanting to continue this relationship to this other man. I did not want ot give up my close female friend either. I was wrong. I was in an EA.
But I listened to my wife and chose to be faithful to her even though I though there was nothing wrong. That is what we spouses are supposed to do. It is called being faithful.

There is no evidence to suggest that she is behaving inappropriately with him. It is a trust issue.

He should be able to trust her to avoid this inappropriate situation. She is spending way too many hours with this guy. She is breaking trust. Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by product.

We have all the evidence needed. He has asked her to stop this relationship and she refuses. That is serious stuff. One has to understand EAs to even deal with this. You have to stop them early.
Her relationship with this guy now threatens the marriage.

She has asserted her boundary. The husband could do the same, but I fear that in the end if both people can't find a mutually agreeable solution that doesn't leave one feeling robbed in some way it may come down to a point where one decides if this is a deal breaker for them.

Fundamental boundaries cannot be comprmised and maintain integrity. Boundaries are not about what people want or desire. They are fundamental to their emotional needs. This is not I really want this thing. This is about ones inner integrity.

You really think that it is appropriate for a husband or wife to be chosing an opposite sex friend over their spouses wishes?

Originally Posted by Bambusa

I don't think you can judge another persons motives by your own past motives.

We have different views on it and I think that's not a bad thing for a few opposing views to be put out there to balance things out.

Originally Posted by Bambusa

By definition, being unfaithful is having sexual relations with a person other than ones partner in contravention of a previous promise or understanding.

I agree 100% not saying EA's aren't real, but every little thing isn't a affair!!

If she was involved in a sexual relationship with this person I could see the reason for the unfaithful comment.

She is training with someone for a marathon who happens to be of the opposite sex.

My wife did the same when she ran a marathon it was 3 dudes and two chicks. She would run and come home

I don't see how this is unfaithful or inappropriate.

Agreed

I agree that he has every right to voice his thoughts and feelings about something. He's done that.

Telling her what she can and can't do and then expecting her to jump on board simply because they are married is unrealistic.

Agreed

I don't fall on the side of people doing anything and everything they want. I just don't agree with your stance on this is cheating or that she is choosing this over him. She is sticking with something that is important to her, so she may have chosen to meet her own needs over his but not necessarily chosen this over him as a person.

You can bring in all the supposes you want but it's not really valid to the points raised. She hasn't chosen to have a shower at his place. You can't judge her on something she hasn't done or something she MAY do in the future.

I agree with boundary 1. I find boundary 2 lacks objectivity and that 1 and 2 should be the same.

I also agree with the first sentence in boundary 3 but find the rest again is a bit unfair.

Agreed!!

We don't know this woman, so it's a bit unfair to generalise about her, especially when those comments have not been reflected by the original poster.

I don't see things as a gender issue. As I said before. My husband and I BOTH have friends of the opposite sex and neither of us has a problem with that. Neither of us see it as a form of cheating and neither of us distrust each other.

The husband wants her to stop and she doesn't want to.

There is no evidence to suggest that she is behaving inappropriately with him. It is a trust issue.

She has asserted her boundary. The husband could do the same, but I fear that in the end if both people can't find a mutually agreeable solution that doesn't leave one feeling robbed in some way it may come down to a point where one decides if this is a deal breaker for them.

Originally Posted by Entropy3000

Does she have veto power over anything you do?

Honestly no. Not officially. There are things that I know would be off limits, but they are obvious.


Where do you think that point is in this where you might decide to take a firm stand. How far does this have to go? Where is your real boundary here?

Any evidence of an EA and I would lose it. I already lost it last week when she went in to work for a few hours on saturday and later casually mentioned that he was there. She then told me that several other people were there too. It is normal in her line of work that they would all be there. My real boundary is an emotional affair, and at this point I don't think she is there yet, but she is risking one. Even then I can't say what I'd do other than telling her to stop. Financially we can't afford not to live in the same house.

I feel for you, I really do, I could not do this. What she is doing is unfaithful now. It was just inappropriate. This was supposed to be a group.

Again this has nothing to do with trust any longer. She has broken trust and is chosing to do this with this guy in the face of your objections.

I do agree you should look inside yourself and decide why you fear defending your marriage over this. This is not about becoming comfortable with her activity. That is just convincing yourself it is ok for her to disrespect you. FWIW this will not be attractive to her either.

Has this impacted your sex life yet?

Yes. Equally on both sides I'd say. I am not the kind of person who will initiate anything when I am angry about something.

Originally Posted by Reggiethelion

Hello, I would like other's thoughts. I have been married for a decade, kids, both of us in early-mid thirties. Recently, my wife began running again to get in shape, which I thought was great. Problem for me is she has chosen a single male colleague-with whom she already spends 8 hours a day-as her running partner. He is in his mid twenties. They run together 5 times a week-3 days after work and on the weekends. I don't suspect infidelity at this point, rather I think he is genuinely just a convenient running partner and my wife wants to get in shape. But it still bothers me quite a bit. So I told my wife that I thought it was inappropriate for her to be running alone 5 times a week with a single male. She disagrees. We have had two significant arguments, one very serious with her storming out in tears at 11pm and coming back an hour later over the issue. I am more upset that she won't just stop because I want her to than because of the actual issue at this point, because I feel if the tables were turned I would do so for her. She says she has committed to training with this person for a race and if she backed out now it would look terrible at work. I have said some hurtful things out of anger over the issue, which I later told her I didn't really mean. Our relationship is seriously affected, we are avoiding open hostility but we have been basically communicating on a superficial level for several weeks. I really don't know what to do. She won't stop, and I won't become ok with what she is doing. Any ideas?