General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Not sure I can fully get into words what I mean, but I've been comparing my grandparents and great aunts and uncles, who mostly married in the 1930s and have passed away, to the ideas on this forum. I've noticed all the "not in love anymore," "love but not in love," "can you learn to love," "bad boy threads," and such, and I think of how totally different those attitudes are from theirs.
My family basically expressed wanting a "good man." They had no interest in bad boys. They also wanted someone who was a good provider and a good father. If they had that, they were happy. My grandparents and great aunts had no expectations of vacations, elaborate celebrations of anniversaries, etc. On one hand, I would say they would laugh their head off at some of this stuff, but they probably wouldn't because they probably wouldn't understand it.
I remember years ago my great aunt bought a new dress and she admitted it didn't look as good as she expected. Her husband told her he could have made her one from a feed sack that looked better than that. She would tell that to everyone she met and laugh her head off. Of course, it was all in good fun, but it doesn't sound like he had to "be careful" about what he said, nor does it sound like she was sensitive. She thought it was hilarious. When he passed away, it broke her heart and she talked about how there wasn't a better man on earth, and she never showed interest in another man the remaining 20 years of her life.
It just seems to me that they didn't have all these current issues running through their minds. Their minds weren't geared that way. Maybe they stayed in love because they simply had different expectations.
Check out the book "Committed: A skeptic makes peace with Marriage"
A good portion of the book covers this very topic. The author talks to women from various cultures ... and they have extraordinarily different views of love an marriage. In many cases, love isn't a factor at all. In one Asian country she asks an old woman if she loves her husband, and the woman makes a face like its a ridiculous question ... not because of course she loves him, but because in their culture, love has nothing to do with whom you marry.
There was a point in time when neither partner had a lot options or choices in the matter. That alone can put limitations on one's imagination.
I don't think the issues have changed at all ... ever ...
There has always been desire, there has always been deceit, there has always been passion and betrayal.
What has changed is our time and opportunity to focus on them. We in western culture, have placed a premium on 'romantic love' in a relationship from the mid-part of last century onward. Consequently, that colors the lens through which we look at and evaluate our relationships and marriage through.
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Re: Love and older generations in my family
My mom and dad were married 60+ years and I know there were times of great difficulty in the marriage, but they stayed the course. My wife's parents were married 50+. Both marriages only ended in the death of one of the spouses. In their generation divorce was simply taboo. The vows, I believe, were taken much more to heart that it was a life long commitment. Today's society is very different from theirs and from mine for that matter. As a child I only knew of 2 divorce parents among my friends. Today I would bet that my children's' peers carry more of a 40% divorced ratio. There are tons of factors you could point at. A throw away society, the ease of communications with old flames, a general down turn in morality, poor examples set by our politicians, sports idols and movie stars, a me generation, better economic options in divorce.....
I am happy to report that when my wife and I were on the verge of divorce it was the standard that we learned from our parents that helped us to make sure we did everything we could to survive and move on. At times it would have been much easier to just say **** it than to fight on. I am very proud of us both for the efforts.
Check out the book "Committed: A skeptic makes peace with Marriage"
A good portion of the book covers this very topic. The author talks to women from various cultures ... and they have extraordinarily different views of love an marriage. In many cases, love isn't a factor at all. In one Asian country she asks an old woman if she loves her husband, and the woman makes a face like its a ridiculous question ... not because of course she loves him, but because in their culture, love has nothing to do with whom you marry.
There was a point in time when neither partner had a lot options or choices in the matter. That alone can put limitations on one's imagination.
I don't think the issues have changed at all ... ever ...
There has always been desire, there has always been deceit, there has always been passion and betrayal.
What has changed is our time and opportunity to focus on them. We in western culture, have placed a premium on 'romantic love' in a relationship from the mid-part of last century onward. Consequently, that colors the lens through which we look at and evaluate our relationships and marriage through.
Great observations. I think "imagination" has a lot to do with it. My grandparents weren't watching Oprah, Dr. Phil, and reading Cosmo and RedBook, and watching romance movies.
I think time and opportunity is true as well. In their day, times were hard. They worked from sun up to sun down and there wasn't a lot of time to get their minds torn up about such issues. If they had food and shelter, they felt like things were great. As they got older and times got better, they just enjoyed the better times and were thankful.
Funny how it affects us, our whole family of origin thing. My parents are of the old fashioned variety of which SB speaks, not baby boomer types, though the hippie era left an impression I'm sure. I could comprehend that my father could have been a cheater, I know he was some addiction problems, and my mother is certainly a codependent. My ex's family looks somewhat similar though without the addiction component - from what my ex pieced together from her deceased mom's journals, her mom and possibly her dad too both had affairs and swept them under the rug. Weird thing about her father is that when my ex described my dad and how he acts towards my mom sometimes, first thing he said is "why didn't she just leave him, why does she stick around?"
It was very unsettling to even hear such a comment, my folks would never consider divorce, they have always both been fiercely loyal to their marraige and as they age they are constantly more and more grateful for what they have, and appreciate each other more despite all the flaws. It is a strong marriage that just cures harder with every year because they both decided that is what is most important in life.
Obviously such values were never instilled in my ex.
I am old enough to have seen "The Greatest Generation" and many relationships with the large family I grew up in.
My parents, both in their 80's, witnessed the great depression and WWII. Their lives have been so much different from ours from the BB generation.
To some degree I have thought that we from the baby boomers generation may be somewhat deeper in relationships on average, and at the same time much more shallow people, if that is possible.
So many distractions we have and feel the need to have. My parents were not always looking for a new greatest anything fix.
I often think we live in a bizarre world as compared to the days past. If you could bring people back from two generations gone by to see what they would have to say about how we live our lives, and I am pretty certain they would think we are goofy and missing the point and the opportunity to be really living better lives, for ourselves and each other.
I am old enough to have seen "The Greatest Generation" and many relationships with the large family I grew up in.
My parents, both in their 80's, witnessed the great depression and WWII. Their lives have been so much different from ours from the BB generation.
To some degree I have thought that we from the baby boomers generation may be somewhat deeper in relationships on average, and at the same time much more shallow people, if that is possible.
So many distractions we have and feel the need to have. My parents were not always looking for a new greatest anything fix.
I often think we live in a bizarre world as compared to the days past. If you could bring people back from two generations gone by to see what they would have to say about how we live our lives, and I am pretty certain they would think we are goofy and missing the point and the opportunity to be really living better lives, for ourselves and each other.
So many great comments in this thread that I agree with, but just couldn't pull out of my brain to describe it.
I'm sure they would think we are "missing the point" about what a good life means. I realize that there has to be an attraction between two people. I don't believe my grandmother found a man she thought was the ugliest guy she had ever seen and was an all around idiot and married him. I believe she did think he was attractive and loved him. But I don't think she allowed "distracting thoughts" to turn her against that love.
I guess I followed in the footsteps of my parents and grandparents and that may be what led to my divorce. I guess i didn't realize there was a different set of rules that some followed.
I would like to add a cautionary note about idealizing the past. Many of the marriages from the "Greatest Generation" were unhappy, but divorce was not an option for them. They just stuck it out, two mules chained together for life.
I have read about marriages from the Civil War where the man just disappeared. He did not return home, and found another woman to marry. His first wife never found out what happened to him; she just assumed that he died on the battlefield.
My grandparents were separated but never divorced. They lived in different cities because they could not get along. It was their way of dealing with the inability to divorce in the 1930's.
I do think, however, that our culture promotes easy divorce where people throw away perfectly good marriages without trying to work on how they can keep their love alive. We glorify the early infatuation stage of love, and we do not have many good stories about how to keep love alive once the initial glow has faded.
I would like to add a cautionary note about idealizing the past. Many of the marriages from the "Greatest Generation" were unhappy, but divorce was not an option for them. They just stuck it out, two mules chained together for life.
I have read about marriages from the Civil War where the man just disappeared. He did not return home, and found another woman to marry. His first wife never found out what happened to him; she just assumed that he died on the battlefield.
My grandparents were separated but never divorced. They lived in different cities because they could not get along. It was their way of dealing with the inability to divorce in the 1930's.
I do think, however, that our culture promotes easy divorce where people throw away perfectly good marriages without trying to work on how they can keep their love alive. We glorify the early infatuation stage of love, and we do not have many good stories about how to keep love alive once the initial glow has faded.
Sure. I don't for one minute think that all this stuff is new and that people didn't cheat and things of that nature in the past. Movie stars, for example, were already marrying and divorcing a lot during those days, and as you mentioned, even weirdness was happening during civil war times. I'm not saying it's a blanket situation for everybody. I'm only speaking about my relatives, but their generation did seem to have a different attitude around here than our current generation.
Perhaps it's because they lived a more isolated life and weren't exposed to all the things we see today. I sometimes ask, "How did people survive hot summers without air conditioning?" My father really doesn't know how to respond. He just says that when he was a kid he didn't know any difference, so it was just normal. Then, we always say, but didn't you get hot sleeping upstairs without air? He says, "Yes, it was hot, but that was just normal then."
I think relationships are the same. I don't think the older generation knew there were so many options of things to become discontent about. My grandmother wasn't aware she was supposed to feel disconnected because my grandfather didn't make a big deal out of Valentine's day, for example. She was more hung up on the fact that he was a good man, a good father, and a good provider.
Great observations. I think "imagination" has a lot to do with it. My grandparents weren't watching Oprah, Dr. Phil, and reading Cosmo and RedBook, and watching romance movies.
Awww Southbound, why take a hit on the Joys and inspiration of ROMANCE.
What keeps people in love over the long haul, what revives their attraction ...and conneciton.. I would point to Romance, cultivating desire.......that crazy in love feeling for 1 special person where we feel our world would be shattered if something happened to them.... we feel we can't live without them. If 2 feel that wanting, desirous high for the other -this is a true blessing in any marriage, such a couple would be more likely to wind any storm that came their direction.
Take that away though and we try to feed our soul with other things... like social status, climbing the financial ladder of success, living for our children, excitement, achievment.... all this in sacrifice of "true abiding connection" with our spouse that has the ability to set us on "high".
We ought to make romance a part of our everyday diet in our marriage relationship. Look at what the Bible speaks of in proverbs 5:18-19: "… and rejoice in the wife of your youth, as a loving hind and graceful doe, let her breast satisfy you at all times. Be exhilarated always with her love."
That's a powerful image—to be literally exhilarated by your spouse. This type of romance is part of what sets a marriage apart from just a friendship. Barbara is my friend, but there is also a side of our friendship that goes way beyond that—we share a marriage bed together, and we dream thoughts and exchange intimacies that are shared with nobody else on this planet.
I wouldn't want to go back to the past... I agree with what Lovesherman was talking about. My Grandfather cheated on my Grandmother, but she just stayed... from the outside looking in... it looked good....in reality.... they just "prolonged" ......is anything really new under the sun, I suspect alot of suffering back then - just more hiding of it. Their house was not full of Joy.. I didn't even care to visit as I grew older.
Now my other Grandmother .... she had more ROMANCE in her marriage. Many stories to share with me about how wonderful my Grandfather was to her-daily, how he waited to win her heart.... She was more Joyful & laughed more than my other grandmother. Which do you think I was more inspired by ...or wanted my own marriage to be like ??
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This is me said: So many distractions we have and feel the need to have.
I accually consider myself pretty "old fashioned" in comparison to the majority of people who live today... social status does not turn me on...what is in the heart is what I look for (that good father, integrity, honesty in all things).... You mentioned Air conditioning.... we never had it, never cared... fans are good enough...our kids don't carry cell phones either.... So long as our cars get us from point A to point B... we are happy... ...give us a shack in the country & we're as Playful and excited as pigs in mudd... but I NEED ROMANCE --to keep me that way....I crave that emotional closeness from my spouse--daily.. it's just a part of who I am. Who he is too -thankfully.
I adore Romantic Movies, just caught one today ... I was getting all sappy -tears -passion, love it .... then me & him just watched the Blue Lagoon Awakening on Lifetime tonight together.. ... I see Romance as turning the grey mundane of life ....into the beauty of Color... something to celebrate- uplifts the spirit even. It is like the sun coming up every morning, brings the stars into every night, the rainbow after the rain, to take this away.... life looses it's luster. (I would for me!)
When couples loose the Romance ...it is very sad... And never forget the laughter...in the home...we NEED that as well !! (I loved your example about the feed sack for a dress, we would talk like that !! ), we also don't care about gifts or get upset over such things -at all..... if something is not done elaborately on Valentines, etc .. But if you forget a little romance...this I would notice.
I feel having a heart of Thankfulness and Gratitude towards our spouses....for those little things in life -that are FREE.... taking walks together hand in hand, kisses in the dark, giving the gift of listening & holding each other if we had a bad day... these are the greatest blessings on this earth to share with another....
My husband often tells me --he doesn't care what we do, so long as we are together. TO capture THAT attitude in marraige... isn't this what is lacking...
So many get caught up in chasing the BIG THINGS...they think will satisfy their thirsty souls...but often it does not , becuase it takes us away from connection with our spouses, we are too busy, too independent, chasing a financial Plateau, or yeah, "expectations" are set too high..
I suppose we can do that with romance too... but if both spouses are devoted to keep those fires burning, and not allowing anything to come between them, fighting for THAT..no matter what .....they will weather near any storm....and continually come out "best friends" till the end.
But as always... it takes 2 !
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My grandmother wasn't aware she was supposed to feel disconnected because my grandfather didn't make a big deal out of Valentine's day, for example. She was more hung up on the fact that he was a good man, a good father, and a good provider
I feel similar to your Grandmother in this... don't care about gifts... For Father's day... my husband's attitude.... he feels blessed just to have our children in our lives, healthy , happy, thankful..that IS the greatest gift.
I feel the same on Mothers Day. Now when our kids grow up -we probably won't get any gifts at all -cause they know we feel this way -ha ha... might be kicking ourselves then.
Awww Southbound, why take a hit on the Joys and inspiration of ROMANCE.
What keeps people in love over the long haul, what revives their attraction ...and conneciton.. I would point to Romance, cultivating desire.......that crazy in love feeling for 1 special person where we feel our world would be shattered if something happened to them.... we feel we can't live without them. If 2 feel that wanting, desirous high for the other -this is a true blessing in any marriage, such a couple would be more likely to wind any storm that came their direction.
Take that away though and we try to feed our soul with other things... like social status, climbing the financial ladder of success, living for our children, excitement, achievment.... all this in sacrifice of "true abiding connection" with our spouse that has the ability to set us on "high".
I wouldn't want to go back to the past... I agree with what Lovesherman was talking about. My Grandfather cheated on my Grandmother, but she just stayed... from the outside looking in... it looked good....in reality.... they just "prolonged" ......is anything really new under the sun, I suspect alot of suffering back then - just more hiding of it. Their house was not full of Joy.. I didn't even care to visit as I grew older.
Now my other Grandmother .... she had more ROMANCE in her marriage. Many stories to share with me about how wonderful my Grandfather was to her-daily, how he waited to win her heart.... She was more Joyful & laughed more than my other grandmother. Which do you think I was more inspired by ...or wanted my own marriage to be like ??
I accually consider myself pretty "old fashioned" in comparison to the majority of people who live today... social status does not turn me on...what is in the heart is what I look for (that good father, integrity, honesty in all things).... You mentioned Air conditioning.... we never had it, never cared... fans are good enough...our kids don't carry cell phones either.... So long as our cars get us from point A to point B... we are happy... ...give us a shack in the country & we're as Playful and excited as pigs in mudd... but I NEED ROMANCE --to keep me that way....I crave that emotional closeness from my spouse--daily.. it's just a part of who I am. Who he is too -thankfully.
I adore Romantic Movies, just caught one today ... I was getting all sappy -tears -passion, love it .... then me & him just watched the Blue Lagoon Awakening on Lifetime tonight together.. ... I see Romance as turning the grey mundane of life ....into the beauty of Color... something to celebrate- uplifts the spirit even. It is like the sun coming up every morning, brings the stars into every night, the rainbow after the rain, to take this away.... life looses it's luster. (I would for me!)
When couples loose the Romance ...it is very sad... And never forget the laughter...in the home...we NEED that as well !! (I loved your example about the feed sack for a dress, we would talk like that !! ), we also don't care about gifts or get upset over such things -at all..... if something is not done elaborately on Valentines, etc .. But if you forget a little romance...this I would notice.
I feel having a heart of Thankfulness and Gratitude towards our spouses....for those little things in life -that are FREE.... taking walks together hand in hand, kisses in the dark, giving the gift of listening & holding each other if we had a bad day... these are the greatest blessings on this earth to share with another....
My husband often tells me --he doesn't care what we do, so long as we are together. TO capture THAT attitude in marraige... isn't this what is lacking...
So many get caught up in chasing the BIG THINGS...they think will satisfy their thirsty souls...but often it does not , becuase it takes us away from connection with our spouses, we are too busy, too independent, chasing a financial Plateau, or yeah, "expectations" are set too high..
I suppose we can do that with romance too... but if both spouses are devoted to keep those fires burning, and not allowing anything to come between them, fighting for THAT..no matter what .....they will weather near any storm....and continually come out "best friends" till the end.
But as always... it takes 2 !
I feel similar to your Grandmother in this... don't care about gifts... For Father's day... my husband's attitude.... he feels blessed just to have our children in our lives, healthy , happy, thankful..that IS the greatest gift.
I feel the same on Mothers Day. Now when our kids grow up -we probably won't get any gifts at all -cause they know we feel this way -ha ha... might be kicking ourselves then.
As usual, good post SimplyAmorous. I can't say that I disagree with your post. I think they had romance too, but it just took a simpler form, and expectations weren't so high that they could not be met.
My grandmother, for example, loved to cook, and she loved fixing chicken & dumplins for my grandfather because it was his favorite. It made her feel good to do it, and he felt good to receive it, but as i said before, they just weren't caught up in all this in and out of love stuff and have all these issues that people have today.
I noticed too that they didn't set themselves up for trouble either. They didn't have opposite sex friends that they spent time with and they didn't flirt with other people.
As usual, good post SimplyAmorous. I can't say that I disagree with your post. I think they had romance too, but it just took a simpler form, and expectations weren't so high that they could not be met.
Nothing wrong with SIMPLE.. ....it really IS about being Greatful for what we have...isn't it.
Your Grandmother was so Thankful for your Grandfather, how he worked hard every day so she could buy the food to make those meals...she felt very BLESSED ....no doubt he treated her very well ... so this makes a well spring of WANTING TO GIVE BACK TO HIM, making his favorite meals, those chicken & dumplings. It's the little things.
When both are simply thankful for what the other brings to their lives, realizing their contribution, not taking it for granted, it makes all the difference in this world....in our attitudes.
But how true, too many aren't talking to the other & do all kinds of things that would HURT the other....so they start to loose that feeling or if they don't communicate those hurts (today we run to friends, FB, co-workers before our spouse -- not good!!)... then the walls go up...resentment sets in ... we loose the romance and the simple thankfulness we once had -if we ever had it.
I will give you an example of Me & my husband's early years... where others might think..... WOW, they were really poor and desperate... but we were so happy -estastic we found this Truck... we built memories working on it together, none of this was glamerous mind you.. but we still had FUN, we joked about how crazy we might look to those Junk yard employess..... Read our 4x4 story here >> HERE.
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I noticed too that they didn't set themselves up for trouble either. They didn't have opposite sex friends that they spent time with and they didn't flirt with other people.
I feel IF a little playful flirting is going on at home, this is less likely to happen - if the husband looses all the things he did to win her in their dating yrs to make her feel extra special...or the wife also turns into a bore, that these things are more likely to happen. We should never allow ourselves to become "complacent" in marriage...
I started to take my husband for granted when the kids started coming....It was both our faults. I became so darn thankful for the kids, I forget about thier dad --- He was never much of an overt flirter, I think HAD he been....tried to revv my engine a little more - I wouldn't have lost as much interest in him - to be honest. All in hindsight now ! So sure, we can all go through some dry spells, but ALERT each other to them, work on it.... re-vive the romance.
Nothing wrong with SIMPLE.. ....it really IS about being Greatful for what we have...isn't it.
Your Grandmother was so Thankful for your Grandfather, how he worked hard every day so she could buy the food to make those meals...she felt very BLESSED ....no doubt he treated her very well ... so this makes a well spring of WANTING TO GIVE BACK TO HIM, making his favorite meals, those chicken & dumplings. It's the little things.
When both are simply thankful for what the other brings to their lives, realizing their contribution, not taking it for granted, it makes all the difference in this world....in our attitudes.
But how true, too many aren't talking to the other & do all kinds of things that would HURT the other....so they start to loose that feeling or if they don't communicate those hurts (today we run to friends, FB, co-workers before our spouse -- not good!!)... then the walls go up...resentment sets in ... we loose the romance and the simple thankfulness we once had -if we ever had it.
I will give you an example of Me & my husband's early years... where others might think..... WOW, they were really poor and desperate... but we were so happy -estastic we found this Truck... we built memories working on it together, none of this was glamerous mind you.. but we still had FUN, we joked about how crazy we might look to those Junk yard employess..... Read our 4x4 story here >> HERE.
I feel IF a little playful flirting is going on at home, this is less likely to happen - if the husband looses all the things he did to win her in their dating yrs to make her feel extra special...or the wife also turns into a bore, that these things are more likely to happen. We should never allow ourselves to become "complacent" in marriage...
I started to take my husband for granted when the kids started coming....It was both our faults. I became so darn thankful for the kids, I forget about thier dad --- He was never much of an overt flirter, I think HAD he been....tried to revv my engine a little more - I wouldn't have lost as much interest in him - to be honest. All in hindsight now ! So sure, we can all go through some dry spells, but ALERT each other to them, work on it.... re-vive the romance.
You are correct. They were thankful for what they had and not always yearning for more. And I honestly don't think they were "settling," I actually think they loved their life. They just lived a much simpler life and modern issues that we deal with today weren't even on the list with them.
7Likes 
Love and older generations in my family 
), we also don't care about gifts or get upset over such things -at all..... if something is not done elaborately on Valentines, etc .. But if you forget a little romance...this I would notice. 
