General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Hi. I'm new here and I think I posted this thread (Not Sure What's Next...) in the wrong place.
I'm at my wits end about what to do in my marriage and could really use some viewpoints.
I don't want to copy and paste all of that here, but would really appreciate it if someone would have a read and let me know your thoughts. Posting in here is fine since it looks like this is where most people hang out.
I'm guessing he thinks you're not sorry about doing what you do, you're just sorry you upset him. You need to show him you mean it by not doing it again. Depending on how anal he's being about it though, that could be quite tough. If so then try and make him understand it's tough but you're genuinely sorry. If not then you need to try a bit harder to not do it.
This weekend, I made mistake #1 again, for probably the umpteenth time. In my opinion, it wasn't like I was making him appear like a big idiot, but he was wrong about a certain point and I tried to respectfully disagree. Apparently, he didn't like that. When I realized he was angry, I tried to apologize but he didn't want to hear a word I had to say. In the past, I've been told that my apologies no longer mean anything because I've been making the same mistakes for the past 12 years. So obviously, those apologies must not be sincere. I need to DO something to back up those words. But, I can't do the SAME things (nice dinner, sexy shower, parading around in lingerie, etc.) because they aren't enough. AND if I come up with new things (cooking together, going for walks together) I'm being hypocritical because we should've been doing those things anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean about the disagreeing thing. Does he object if your opinion on a topic differs from his and you express it? Belittling his opinion in company would, of course, be disrespectful and rude, but it's quite another matter respectfully expressing a differing opinion during the course of a conversation.
Regarding the other issues, it sounds like he's carrying a lot of resentment for things that didn't happen in the past which you are now trying to change in the present. What is he doing to facilitate the necessary changes in the relationship, or does he perceive all the faults to be yours? It's very difficult to effect positive changes in a relationship if one party is forever dragging up the past...
I'm guessing he thinks you're not sorry about doing what you do, you're just sorry you upset him. You need to show him you mean it by not doing it again. Depending on how anal he's being about it though, that could be quite tough. If so then try and make him understand it's tough but you're genuinely sorry. If not then you need to try a bit harder to not do it.
Hi alton,
Part of your comment is the same thing he has said...that I'm just sorry that I upset him. While that's partly true, I am always genuinely sorry when I make the same mistake, especially when I'm trying my hardest not to.
What bothers me is that, when I've pointed out things to him that he's been doing and have let him know that those things still haven't changed, he behaves as if I have no right to expect him to keep up his side of things because I keep making mistakes. To me, that seems lime he's intentionally not doing his part, as if to show me a lesson or prove a point. Childish behavior in my opinion.
So when he gets uber mad when i make the same mistake, I don't feel like the anger is justified. I'm imperfect...I make mistakes. At least I keep trying.
I'm not sure what you mean about the disagreeing thing. Does he object if your opinion on a topic differs from his and you express it? Belittling his opinion in company would, of course, be disrespectful and rude, but it's quite another matter respectfully expressing a differing opinion during the course of a conversation.
Regarding the other issues, it sounds like he's carrying a lot of resentment for things that didn't happen in the past which you are now trying to change in the present. What is he doing to facilitate the necessary changes in the relationship, or does he perceive all the faults to be yours? It's very difficult to effect positive changes in a relationship if one party is forever dragging up the past...
Hi Cosmos,
I never belittle him in front of people because that's just not right. When I disagree with him I try to do it very politely and without aggression. But somehow, he manages to feel like I'm disrespecting him and what he knows, even if he's wrong.
With regard to your 2nd comment, over the years, he's been a wonderful man. But he's telling me over and over again that I need to do more and that, when things aren't right, I'm mainly the cause. Yes he does continuously drag up the past. When I mention that to him, he says that it's because I'm still making some of the same mistakes.
In my heart, part of me understands his frustration. I feel the same way about some of his bad habits that haven't changed. But I certainly don't get so mad that I don't want him to speak to me or that I keep throwing it back in his face "You've been doing XYZ since I've known you. Does it ever occur to you that I feel this way because XYZ still hasn't changed?" I get the feeling that what matters to ME isn't as important as what matters to HIM and if I fix the things that matter to HIM, then the stuff that matters to ME will right themselves.
That logic is way too complicated. Take me as I am and encourage me when I improve. Guide me when I'm off course. Don't continue to remind me that I've failed over and over again.
I actually understand a lot of where he's coming from, but what I don't understand is how he acts in response to the things you do.
I think that there is a fine line when your married regarding questioning each other in front of company. It can be very embarrassing especially when you feel like you should be a team. It belittles your spouse and can make them feel like you're just trying to one-up them. That gets old quick. You say you're trying your best but if that were true, you'd stop doing this. Obviously, we don't know the extent of these interactions so I'm just generalizing here. You say you don't belittle him, but have you considered what the impact on him is rather than your intent?
He also wants to spend more time with you and do certain things together, which is never a bad thing.
So...on those things I can see where he's coming from.
On the flip side, he seems to have a really immature manner in handling these things. Based on what you've written, he acts like a petulant child when you make a "mistake". Frankly, he needs to grow the hell up. A real man does not pout when his wife upsets him (for whatever reason). He handles it face on and deals with it like an adult.
It sounds to me like you guys need some help communicating. Communication can break down over the course of a marriage without the spouses even knowing it. I agree he sounds resentful, and he's having a very difficult time communicating that to you. It's so bad, that he acts like a baby instead of like an adult man.
I would suggest that you seek out a marriage counselor to help you communicate better.
Oh...and if he's turning down "sexy showers" he's just stupid. I don't care how angry I am, I'm not turning that down!
Well, you are the one here trying to make things better, so that's good.
Are you voicing a different opinion or correcting "facts" when the two of you are with others? I did this and then realized that people telling a story to others don't NEED to have every fact correct; sometimes they change or shade things differently for the sake of a good story. Being persnickety about the details is just not good story telling. Once I realized this, I stopped "correcting" him--and yes, it helped. If that's what you are doing, think of it as a story--not a fact-based inquisition. and let things go--whether it was his friend or his 2nd cousin twice removed doesn't matter, and the latter is an inconsequential detail to the point of the story.
It really sounds, however, like the two of you could use some marriage counseling. He's very resentful AND he may be passive-aggressive (sounds like that is what you are saying). Does he perceive his mom as uber critical? Getting to the bottom of this will be important for the long haul, b/c if you back off, but he doesn't change, then you will be the resentful one and it will just get worse.
From my perspective your husband is a control freak and is manipulating you. You are not required to agree with everything that comes out of his mouth. If your opinion is different than his than he should respect your opinion just as you respect his. Obviously if you are saying his opinion is stupid than that is different but I don't get the sense that is what is happening. It sounds to me like he is insecure.
I agree that counselling would be very helpful. It will help put an objective light on the dynamics of the relationship with your husband. The other idea is reading the book "Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner. It teaches you how to say things in a way that doesn't put your partner on the defensive.
Thank you both for your responses. I hear what you're both saying. But let me give you more details about what happened this weekend.
I was helping my daughter with an essay and a question of punctuation came up. Here is an example of the sentence in question...
In the course of the story, person A said "This is an interesting comment" (book citation page 3).
My daughter and I were trying to figure out whether or not the period should go inside the quotation marks or outside the parenthetical citation. My husband said that a comma should go on the inside of the quotation and a period outside the citation. I disagreed, because a comma implied that there was more to the quotation, which there wasn't. We disagreed over it a little more, explaining our viewpoints and then he looked at me and said "Ok", then walked off. When I asked him to help us with something later he said "No" quite forcefully, which is when I realized that he was angry.
It turned out that he was incorrect, which I verified by looking it up online. But that didn't matter and I didn't even get the opportunity to let him know, even though he probably wouldn't have wanted to hear that. The fact that I disagreed with him in front of my daughter angered him. That fact that I didn't take his word for it angered him. I didn't yell and I wasn't disrespectful. I just disagreed and explained why. In this context, I was just supposed to respect the fact that he was an English Major in college and let it go. But if my daughter's teacher was up on his/her punctuation, then my daughter would've gotten wrong marks for that and other citations like it throughout the essay. Next time, I'll just let him be right, then do my research and make the necessary adjustments without the disagreement.
He prides himself in his communication. I will admit that I'm not always the one who wants to talk about things. Somethings I have to work out for myself. I don't want to discuss something that will illicit judgement or discouraging feedback. Let me puzzle it through my way before you tell me that I SHOULD be doing it another way.
I've considered marriage counseling, but he's too arrogant to allow some stranger to tell him how to communicate with his wife. So I'm not even going that route. He wouldn't be open to it.
At this point, I want to try something "new" to break down the wall, but he'll just see it as being hypocritical, since it's not something I would normally do. But I can't do the SAME things because, according to him, they won't work.
As a married dude (18+ yrs), I think you need to stop being so hard on yourself. You are trying, so I think you are well on your way to healing your marriage and reconnecting with your husband.
If I were to write a list of issues I have with my wife, it would look amazingly similar to your list.
What guy wouldn't like their wife to just drop everything and throw on a see-thru teddie, crawl across the bed with her honeymoon bedroom eyes and a pink rose in her teeth the second he walks in the door?
If he gets upset because you correct him in front of others, part of that issue is on him. He shouldn't be so sensitive and insecure. Who cares if you correct him publicly? That used to bother me, but as I got older, I no longer worry about it. I respect myself, and I know what I am saying. She has every right to disagree, and that's ok. He should just ask you politely not to do that, and that should be the end of it. Agree to disagree. You'll never see eye-to-eye on everything in this lifetime, so why torture yourself by trying?
I hope the men in this place don't think I'm a spineless sellout. I just think a true man is confident in his actions and shouldn't worry about whether his wife is nagging or correcting him. There are bigger worries for guys that are husbands/fathers. My choice, after a long time in self reflection, is that my wife does certain things that I don't like, but her heart is in the right place. That's more important to me.
From my perspective your husband is a control freak and is manipulating you. You are not required to agree with everything that comes out of his mouth. If your opinion is different than his than he should respect your opinion just as you respect his. Obviously if you are saying his opinion is stupid than that is different but I don't get the sense that is what is happening. It sounds to me like he is insecure.
I agree that counselling would be very helpful. It will help put an objective light on the dynamics of the relationship with your husband. The other idea is reading the book "Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner. It teaches you how to say things in a way that doesn't put your partner on the defensive.
Hi Maritime Guy. Thanks for responding. I'm making a note of that book in order to check it out. Thank you for the suggestion.
As my relationship with my STBXW is so similar to yours, I'm going to chime in..
My wife would apologize all the time for everything, even if she did nothing wrong..The constant "im sorry" began to lose meaning. She over used it for everything and would never elaborate why she is sorry...I began to see the sorry as a blanket statement..There for her to justify her behavior. No "I'm sorry for doing blank and I know that was the wrong thing to say/do."...Just the two words..
After we had to have daily conversations about the same problems over and over, I told her I don't want to hear 'im sorry' I want to FEEL like you ARE sorry...and that means realizing your behavior is causing damage to our relationship..You need to take care not to do it again. You may SAY your sorry, but your actions say differently. How can you be sorry and know what you are doing is hurting me, AND then continue to do?"
......Eventually, the trust was gone and the constant effort trying to rebuild it was killing me physically and emotionally..I wanted to trust her, but I couldn't..the same behaviors kept coming back and so did the two word apology that I felt carried no more weight...
All I wanted from her was for her to stop hurting me and acknowledge that her behavior is causing me pain...and then stop that behavior..
He sounds completely fed up and cut off emotionally..its a long road to rebuilt trust..especially when its been broken time and time again...In my case, it got to a point where I gave up trying...knowing that whatever I do, she won't change..
He needs to open up again and start trusting you....to do that he probably needs to see that constant change from you...once its become the norm...his resentment would most likely lessen..
As a married dude (18+ yrs), I think you need to stop being so hard on yourself. You are trying, so I think you are well on your way to healing your marriage and reconnecting with your husband.
If I were to write a list of issues I have with my wife, it would look amazingly similar to your list.
What guy wouldn't like their wife to just drop everything and throw on a see-thru teddie, crawl across the bed with her honeymoon bedroom eyes and a pink rose in her teeth the second he walks in the door?
If he gets upset because you correct him in front of others, part of that issue is on him. He shouldn't be so sensitive and insecure. Who cares if you correct him publicly? That used to bother me, but as I got older, I no longer worry about it. I respect myself, and I know what I am saying. She has every right to disagree, and that's ok. He should just ask you politely not to do that, and that should be the end of it. Agree to disagree. You'll never see eye-to-eye on everything in this lifetime, so why torture yourself by trying?
I hope the men in this place don't think I'm a spineless sellout. I just think a true man is confident in his actions and shouldn't worry about whether his wife is nagging or correcting him. There are bigger worries for guys that are husbands/fathers. My choice, after a long time in self reflection, is that my wife does certain things that I don't like, but her heart is in the right place. That's more important to me.
Thank you Max. My heart is definitely in the right place. I love my man to pieces and want to do what I can to foster the right communication. It's tough to do when I get some mixed messages and I'm not really good with nuances. I don't always understand the "unsaid" things. He, on the other hand, reads between the lines all the time, which sometimes leads him to assume things that aren't true. Once that happens, he can't be convinced that his opinion isn't the right one. So I have to deal with that as well. It's hard.
But I'll keep trying. If I was perfect, I'd give up and blame everything on him. But I'm not and am aware of what I need to work on, so I keep working on those things.
Nuances? Reading between the lines? I think your husband and my wife were twins separated at birth. I believe if you focus on your love for your husband, that love will empower you to make the changes necessary to reconnect with him. You also need to be patient. Breaking down the emotional walls will take some time. I'm going through the same thing right now. Believe me, I'm far from perfect. None of us are where we want to be, but we're a lot further along than we used to be. We wouldn't be here if we weren't already on the road to healing ourselves and our marriages. Good luck!
As my relationship with my STBXW is so similar to yours, I'm going to chime in...
Hi Geek,
Wow...just wow.
You've just explained how he's told me he's been feeling. I want to win back his trust. I just don't trust my own creativity. I don't really have any and I fear rejection. After 12 years, you would think I'd know exactly what my man wants. I thought I did, but the stakes seem to be higher now and I don't get many clues as to what would top all other things.
I'm dead serious when I say that, at times like this, he's not really even interested in being intimate with me. He says it feels like I'd just be trying to pacify him. There might be some truth in that. I have feelings of my own that are impacted by some of the negativity in our household. So when it comes times to be intimate, I hesitate because I feel that faking it is essentially lying to him. That's not fair. I should be lovin' my husband because I WANT to and want to show him how much I love him, not just because he wants me to "give it to him". I might as well be a prostitute who's working for free.
Your comments are insightful though and they're also giving me something to think about. Thank you.
8Likes
I need some advice 
But I'm not and am aware of what I need to work on, so I keep working on those things.
