Losing

Well, I'm definitely a "nice guy" and I've started reading that book. I have a long way to go. I have hopes that my marriage can be saved but also realize that this is a change for MYSELF no matter what.

That being said, you may have read my thread from yesterday Is it over?

and today I got this email titled "Your impending divorce"...

While you’re busy ignoring me again and trying to label yourself and place blame elsewhere, I’m busy working on finding a stupid process server because I can’t HAND you divorce papers to sign. It’s not legal. Therefore, I’m resigned to seeking your cooperation and your genuine SIGNATURE because it’s a felony otherwise and even though you’ve said you don’t want me going to jail, I don’t trust you enough to not pursue that. To aid you in your path back to reality, I’ve compiled a lengthy list of GOOD reasons why this marriage contract needs to be dissolved.

To begin with, you have two major character flaws that are unacceptable to me: weakness and dishonesty. Read that sentence again until there’s no doubt in your head about it’s truth.

I’ve realized why I always felt something was off with you and that you could possibly be a serial killer. It’s because you’re a shell of a man with nothing really inside. No wants, no needs, no ambitions .
No DESIRES – if you truly desired something (for example, anything to do with ME?) you wouldn’t be able to ignore it. Yet you’ve ignored me and my needs physically and emotionally and you continue to do so.
You tricked me in the beginning, taking the role of a man, taking care of me, opening doors, making sure I was ok, but there was never anything deeper in you. Something was always missing, at first I was waiting for a psycho to come out but nothing did. Nothing deeper came out because you’re hollow and soul-less. No wants, no needs, no backbone. No true desires because true desires can’t be ignored. You never desired me or a true relationship.

I always told you to do things for YOU but you could never do that. I told you to do what YOU wanted, you never did. You’re not a mindreader and you absolutely do NOT please people. You please yourself. You do what YOU think is right, and when that doesn’t go right, you appease yourself and MAKE it right with YOURSELF, telling yourself you tried, you did good. It doesn’t matter to you what anyone else says or thinks. It doesn’t even matter what the truth is to you. You blame everything else. You try to find medical excuses, psychiatric excuses, work excuses. You’ve even blamed me for my own feelings and issues with this relationship.

If you keep telling yourself we’re having relationship problems because of your stupid job, you’re lying to yourself.

If you tell yourself we didn’t have sex because you’re broken, you’re lying to yourself.

If you blame your weakness on your parents, you’re lying to yourself.

Who’s to blame for your behavior? If you’re actually trying to find something or someone to blame for your behavior, other than yourself and your choices, you’re being dishonest. Stop lying to yourself.
Your “desire” for me could never overcome your innate weakness and desire to please your own self. Therefore, we’re brought back to the fact that you never truly desired me or considered how I felt.

Do you wonder how I feel? Do you care? I feel the same way I’ve felt for years. Alone and missing something. So I’ve waited and waited and waited, always waiting for something. Waiting for you to come to me, to show you care. Waiting for you to say something honest.
Waiting for you to follow through. Waiting so much that even waiting 30 seconds for you to get into action is too long. So once again...thanks for ignoring me, but no thanks.

Nothing is important enough to overcome your “need to please,” except that phrase isn’t as nice as it sounds. It pleases no one but yourself. You don’t care enough, you don’t have enough backbone, enough determination FOR ANYTHING in your life. You have absolutely no ambition and no desire to learn or grow as a person. You never grew into a man either. I’ve told you before that I have two children, I don’t need you as third. You’re weak and can’t stand up for yourself. That’s what makes you pathetic.

Are you just now realizing what you are? Now that the damage is irreparable? Or are you still looking for answers the hard way?
Looking everywhere but right here in front of you.

You were always looking for me to tell you what to do and how to act, and you got frustrated when I wouldn’t tell you. You never asked how I felt or tried to understand what was missing. Is that what was like pulling teeth when talking to me? You desparately wanted me to tell you what to do and how to act. And I never told you because YOU DON’T TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO OR HOW TO ACT. So you didn’t know what to do because I refused to tell you what to do.

Do you realize now that you can’t tell people to change? You can’t tell your mom to stop drinking, I could never tell you how to be a man.

The reason why I don’t WANT anything from you after I do TELL you what to do is because it’s not real, it’s not honest, and it’s not genuine.
Again, tell your mom to stop drinking and she might for a day, but then what? If you told her to and she listened, she stopped for a day, would that make you happy? Did she change? Did she do it herself? Did she genuinely understand what you were saying? Did she alter her lifelong habit because you told her to? Is that what you want?

Your words, your promises, they’re like your mom’s, they’re worthless.

I’m not done but this is getting too long.


---She's told me all of these things before but now that I'm reading No More Mr. Niceguy I realize just how much of a problem this was and is. Any thoughts???

C123

And why do you want to be married to this person who clearly despises you and has no trouble communicating that??? I'm not sure reading a book is going to help you out of this one. I can't imaging staying with someone who so clearly and eloquently describes how much she hates me.

Do whatever you have to do to "fix" yourself, but I think whatever progress you make is going to be for the next woman, not this one.

Losing

I absolutely love everything about this woman. I know there is a lot of anger in her email but remember, she has told me all of this MANY times before. She's told me what she needed and what I wasn't doing. I never manned up and did any of it.

I'm not sure whether the marriage can be saved at this point but I love her with all my heart.

I realize that I need to change for myself regardless of this.

But that angry woman who hates me is the most amazing, beautiful, smart, funny, gorgeous, sexy, witty, unselfish, stunningly beautiful (had to be said again) creature I have ever known.

I do want to be her man desparately but I'm not going to act like a desperate, lost puppy trying to win her back because I know that isn't going to work and because I don't want to be that guy anymore.

Losing

I only just found this site yesterday and it's been incredibly helpful so far. Any thoughts and insight would be greatly appreciated on this.

anchorwatch

From your thread in the men's section and her e-mail, I'd say, you need a lot more that a book and this site to help you.

She is pretty much done. You should prepare to be alone. Work on yourself, become a better person and a better man. Experience is the best education.

Acorn

I'm not sure it would help, but a simple "I realize you are right. I'm sorry I put you through this. I only wish I had listened sooner." might mean a whole lot to her.

Losing

I realize that I need more than a book.

ANd thank you for the response. I do hope it's not over but I'm also prepared for the worst. I want to change regardless. I'm sick of feeling uncomfortable in situations and having to avoid conflict and not being a man.

I truly wish I had more of these experiences BEFORE I met and married the woman of my dreams. But you can't plan these things I guess.

Paulination

Take a long hard look at that e-mail and learn from it. I'll bet beneath the anger there is alot of truth there.

Losing

Thank you for responding.

I did respond already but it was much longer than what you suggested. Whether or not it helps or hurts the situation, it was what I wanted to say to her. I said what I felt. In more words I did tell her that she was right.

I didn't respond whining and pining for her not to go through with this, I've done all that before and all it did was make me feel worse and her resent me more.

I've got a lot to learn and I think I'll be visiting this site for a long time...

Losing

You are 100% correct. There is a TON of truth in there. Painful truth. I hate that I am the guy she is talking about but I am. That's me.

I want to be a better man.

ShawnD

Are you depressed? That sounds like she's describing anhedonia (inability to enjoy things). People with anhedonia are not really passionate about anything. They don't look forward to the weekend, they don't look forward to vacation, they don't have any real plans or ambitions. They just sort of coast through life and wait for death. It's mostly just a physical problem. The brain doesn't have a strong reaction to positive stimulation, so nothing offers strong reinforcement. Medication can be used to greatly increase the brain's excitability, and that makes things more enjoyable. A few natural alternatives to prescription drugs are: coffee, ephedra, ginseng, echinacea, and B vitamins. It can also be strongly affected by sleep problems such as sleep apnea, an uncomfortable bed, sleeping in a room with a lot of LED lights, or having inconsistent sleep-wake cycles such as shift work.


It sounds like she's saying that instead of wanting her specifically, you just wanted a partner and it didn't matter who. It sounds like you're a very lonely person and your sense of self worth is external - you need other people to say you're a good person. It's great that you're reading a book about changing your nice guy behavior, but none of that address why you need validation from other people. The root behavior can be fixed with drugs and therapy.

ArmyofJuan

I get the impression you married someone to replace your mother; you basically put yourself in a child’s role and wanted her to make all the decisions. Women HATE that, they look to men to lead and take control.

So basically you had a parent/child relationship and she finally snapped. All you can do is agree with her and even go as far as tell her you know she will be better off without you (that will show you are not all selfish). The worse you can do is try to stop her right now. She needs to defuse her anger and that will take a good couple of months at least of limited to no contact. BTW the less you speak or communicate the better and when you do make it short and sweet. No long talks about anything.

Also don’t be shocked if she is having an exit affair, those usually give them push to actually leave the relationship.

Ten_year_hubby

I can see why you like her, but personally, I would have to let this one go if she doesn't agree to try to be a little more respectful

Lon

Those words hurt because there is a shred of truth to them, but I'm a nice guy too and there is nothing wrong with genuine contentment, and she had a golden opportunity to negotiate a marriage that would include all her needs and if she was the kind of person who could look deeper inside you she may see that having charge over your own life does not always have to smell like pure raw ambition. She lost respect and attraction for you because she really didn't put in the effort to love who you really are.

Now I agree with others that you (just as I do) have a journey ahead of you to create the life you want, especially when you get frustrated about the way certain things don't seem to go your way - you have to make those opportunites not just take them - but you will always have your core values no matter if you are with someone who can't see the goldmine she was sitting on.

Honestly some hard work on your part to grow past your comfort zone and fear of imposition, and you will realize that you already posess the same qualities you see in her - she is not and has never been above you, just been led to think she is by, I presume, a stream of fitness tests that nobody ever trained you how to pass, and which your goal is now to identify before giving away your love to readily to those unworthy. you are not a shell of a man like she has you convinced, you are just struggling to recognize your own worth - believe me these words have so much meaning to me too, because it is the ONE big challenge this world has given me to tackle for myself.

Max Demien

You said you want to be a better man, so that in itself is a huge step forward. As for losing her, you can't control that. So, as hard as it may seem, you can't dwell on it. All you can do is take each and every day, and become a better man. Take concrete action to improve and tell her what you're doing. But more importantly, SHOW her what you will do. That's all you can control.

I agree with the others that she is extremely insulting and shows very little compassion. You don't do this, you don't do that. You don't care about this, you only care about that. I was lonely, bored, etc etc. It's all me, me, me. Is she perfect? I effin doubt it.