General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
This is my first time posting anything online so I guess I'm at a point that I've never been to before.
My husband and I have been married close to 14 years. He was married before, this is my first marriage. For the first 9 or 10 years I thought we were really happy and it seemed as if we rarely fought. Looking back, I'm wondering if things were really as good as I remember.
For the past several years, we have been fighting more. Part of the fighting was caused by poor communication. If I try to have a discussion about something that is bothering me, my husband ALWAYS changes the subject. He usually becomes extremely angry and brings up something that he believes is similar to what I wanted to discuss, but is something that I've "done to him". I've asked him why, if I did something, he didn't tell me something was bothering him. He usually says oh, so its a different standard for you. I think this is his way of not addressing my concern and trying to put me on the defensive. Some times he will bring up things from 5-10 years ago. I've asked him to go to counseling on more than one occasion, but he has refused. I have gone off and on by myself.
Now to the present. With the exception of when we were first dating and I had petty jealousy, I have always trusted my husband. He has never afforded me the same trust. Any little thing that I don't tell him about (a doctor's appointment, every detail of what happened at an out-of-state meeting, etc.) I must be hiding from him. As I've explained, just because I forgot to tell him something doesn't mean I'm hiding it.
About 3 months ago, my husband started a new job that he really enjoys. In this position, he interacts with many people which suits his personality very well. I have had no issue with this until recently. Several weeks ago, my husband asked me if I cared that he stayed late at work. He did ask if I wanted to join him, but I don't enjoy drinking as much as he does and didn't want to "hang out" with the group. I did ask him to please not be out really late. This has been an issue before. If he says that he'll be home at 10pm, I'm unhappy if he's not home until 1am. I think it's a matter of respect. This time, the party started at approximately 430pm and he said that he would be home shortly after dark, 930 or so. Around 1020pm, he left me a message on my cell, but I was in bed. I woke up around 1230am and he wasn't home yet. I sent him a text. He called me at 1:07am and was slightly belligerent and asked if I was mad. When he got home, the front of his shirt reeked of patchouli. First he denied it, and then said that someone must have sat on his shirt at the pool. This sounded pretty ridiculous to me, but I kind of let it go. Two days later, he was back at work and called and asked if I minded that he hang with the group for a little while. I said ok, but asked that he be home around 2 or 3pm. He said no problem. When it got to be 515pm I was really angry. I sent him a text and he called me asking what the big deal was. Since he had not called me during the day, I decided to look at our phone records to see if he had bothered to call one of his friends or a relative (sometimes he'll tell me he wasn't near his phone). When I looked, I was very surprised to see a phone number that I didn't recognize. We had a huge fight when he got home. He mentioned an old married, male co-worker of mine who I am in contact with. More research showed that there were a lot of calls and texts to this number over the past two weeks. My husband does not enjoy texting. I also noticed that these always happened when I was not around. It took me a few days, but I figured out that this person is a single woman who lives where my husband works. I was upset, but didn't want to jump to any conclusions. The next day, he called and said he was going to hang out with the group for a little while. My gut told me that this woman was going to be part of the group. I decided to show up at his work. When I did, my husband was sitting next to this woman. I walked up to her, introduced myself as the wife and then left. My husband followed me out to the parking lot and asked what my problem was. I asked him how well he knew this woman. He said, "I don't know". I eventually explained that for someone he didn't know that well, he had been speaking with her pretty often. When I asked what they spoke about, he insisted that she talks to him about her kids. Needless to say, I am skeptical. I left his work and he stayed out there for another 3 hours or so even though I was extremely upset. When he got home, we had another huge fight. He accused me of cheating with just about every male that I've ever worked with. I said that I was not discussing anything but the issue at hand. I asked him to go to counselling again. He refuses. Every day after that, he has tried to have sex with me. I told him that I didn't want to. He said that I never want to. I replied that while i still find him desirable, over time when my issues never get resolved, it made me resentful and that being resentful does not lead to me wanting to have a lot of sex with him. We do still have sex although not as much as he would like.
Yesterday, I thought we were going to sit down and try to have a discussion about some of these things. He called from work and asked if I minded if he had one beer with this group. I asked if this woman was part of the group, and he said yes. I told him that it was difficult for me to say ok, but that I would deal with it if he was home in 1 hour. At the time he was supposed to be home, he called and said the group wants you to come out here and have a drink. I said no. It seems obvious that he is more into partying and hanging than trying to resolve any issues. I guess this should be a pretty big indicator of how committed he is to me.
I am FED UP. Am I so naive and blindly trusting that I am ignoring obvious signs?
Forgot to mention that when I asked if he ever figured out who wore so much patchouli, he did eventually tell me that the woman he was talking to was the one who wears patchouli. He also dumped all of the calls and texts from his cell and started keeping his work phone with him at all times when he previously would leave it sitting anywhere.
He says his issues with me are that I never want to do anything with him and that I hide things from him.
Wow- sounds like the man is having an affair with this woman. Especially the part about him blaming YOU for doing it. I truly believe that when you are so quick to point your finger, its because of the three pointing back at yourself. Even if they haven't had sex, an emotional affair is just as bad. It might be a good idea to keep showing up unannounced- and as awful as this is- try to catch him in a situation where he is forced to be truthful with him.
Then castrate him....its simple.
Kidding...that wasnt very nice of me at all!!! :O (< shocked face!!!) hehe.
Thanks Jojara. This is so unlike me and how I typically think about my husband. While I acknowledge that we have some issues, I've never that infidelity might be one.
Castration has crossed my mind so you aren't shocking me
I'm just really sad at this point and trying to figure out how to proceed. I appreciate your thoughts!
If you want to keep him - and I'm not sure I would advise it as he sounds mildly mentally abusive - you will have to get proof, then confront him and tell him to quit. If he refuses or you catch him again, you will have to expose his cheating to his family and close friends and to her parents/siblings to try to stop the affair.
The fact is, he has continually chosen drinking with the group over you. Again and again and again, he puts his own needs above yours. Then, add in all of the contact with this woman, and you've got a big problem.
No decent husband acts like this. You've asked him numerous times to be home at a certain hour and he just ignores you. Then you rightly accuse him of doing something inappropriate behind your back (because...he HAS) and he flips it back on you.
The reason he does all this is because you allow it. You get mad at him (as you should) but then nothing else comes of it. You keep allowing him to do the same things over and over with no consequence. Why would he stop? He's already shown you the type of man he is. The type who chooses his needs over his spouse's needs.
You have few options. A line in the sand needs to be drawn. You need to choose where the line goes. Maybe you tell him you're leaving if he won't stop going out with these people so regularly. Maybe you tell him you're leaving if he won't cut contact with this woman completely. Maybe you tell him you're leaving unless he goes to counseling. I don't know which one you need to choose, but whichever you do choose, the consequence for not doing what you need him to do is that he packs his stuff and leaves. Or...when he's out drinking you pack it for him and have it loaded on to a U-haul in the driveway.
Do you have something to worry about here? Absolutely. His behavior with this woman is most definitely in EA territory and probably in PA territory. He smelled like patchouli because she was all over him. That's a fact. He's also hiding his work phone from you. Red flag numero uno! Textbook cheating behavior along with the reflecting accusations back on you.
Good luck. Keep posting and asking for advice here. It's a great support for people going through tough times.
The fact is, he has continually chosen drinking with the group over you. Again and again and again, he puts his own needs above yours. Then, add in all of the contact with this woman, and you've got a big problem.
No decent husband acts like this. You've asked him numerous times to be home at a certain hour and he just ignores you. Then you rightly accuse him of doing something inappropriate behind your back (because...he HAS) and he flips it back on you.
The reason he does all this is because you allow it. You get mad at him (as you should) but then nothing else comes of it. You keep allowing him to do the same things over and over with no consequence. Why would he stop? He's already shown you the type of man he is. The type who chooses his needs over his spouse's needs.
You have few options. A line in the sand needs to be drawn. You need to choose where the line goes. Maybe you tell him you're leaving if he won't stop going out with these people so regularly. Maybe you tell him you're leaving if he won't cut contact with this woman completely. Maybe you tell him you're leaving unless he goes to counseling. I don't know which one you need to choose, but whichever you do choose, the consequence for not doing what you need him to do is that he packs his stuff and leaves. Or...when he's out drinking you pack it for him and have it loaded on to a U-haul in the driveway.
Do you have something to worry about here? Absolutely. His behavior with this woman is most definitely in EA territory and probably in PA territory. He smelled like patchouli because she was all over him. That's a fact. He's also hiding his work phone from you. Red flag numero uno! Textbook cheating behavior along with the reflecting accusations back on you.
Good luck. Keep posting and asking for advice here. It's a great support for people going through tough times.
Thank you for your advice. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I've allowed him to get away with this kind of behavior for far too long. I'm not sure why I've been acting so differently when it comes to my husband. I'm SO strong in almost every other area of my life. I know that I deserve better than this and doing nothing about his behavior in the past was a huge mistake. I'm very grateful for all the honest, helpful advice. Posted via Mobile Device
Marriage is unlike anything else in your life. We're groomed from an early age that marriage is "sacred" and that one must do everything one can to make a marriage work. The truth is, times and people have changed. Marriage is not easy. Even great marriages require a ton of hard and cooperative work. That is typically why they are great marriages. Each spouse works hard to make sure the other spouse is getting what they want and need while also making sure they are getting what they want and need. Marriages that don't work are where one spouse takes and takes and takes and the other spouse gives and gives and gives until the taker resents the giver for not having a spine and the giver resents the taker for being so selfish.
You need to stop giving. You should gather all of the resolve you can muster and when you're ready, you just.stop.giving. He's taken enough. He either starts giving back...and I mean REALLY giving back or you're out of there. Forget what your grandmother said about a wife pleases her husband because that's her job. That's not the world we live in anymore.
You need to do what's best for you. You deserve a happy, stable life with a partner who gives as much as he gets. There is no reason to stay in this highly dysfunctional marriage. I know it is not going to be easy, but don't you believe you deserve better?!?
C123 I truly understand what you are saying. I think part of my continued giving comes from being extremely loyal. I was adopted as a baby by wonderful parents and had the best childhood possible. I have a very hard time with what I might see as abandoning people. I think this is partly the reason that I've tried so hard even when he isn't. This is a much needed reality check because I don't want to continue in a relationship where I give everything. Your kind words and brutal honesty are exactly what I need to hear.
Quote:
I can't criticise her in any way no matter how I sugar coat it
Like I said, you have ten seconds before the kid is in charge. It therefore does not matter -- at all -- that you have caught her in a calm, apparently receptive mood. And she is so super-sensitive to perceived infractions, she may even take offense at the sugar coating itself (thinking you are talking down to her). The statements and actions that will trigger a release of her anger consist of anything that she interprets as posing a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment (from intimacy). Because you never know what trivial thing will trigger one fear or the other, you are always walking on eggshells.
Quote:
She seems to see things as right or wrong with no ability to give leeway or explain away a mistake.
That is called "black-white thinking" (aka, "all-or-nothing thinking"). It will show up as her claiming you "never" or "always" do such and such. It also is evident in the way she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad."
Wow, I have wondered if my husband has Bordeline Personality Disorder. Some of these words could have been written by me.
All day yesterday, he called me and was very caring on the phone. I was pleasant, but did not respond in my usual manner. When he got home, it was like being with a sulking child.
Marriage is unlike anything else in your life. We're groomed from an early age that marriage is "sacred" and that one must do everything one can to make a marriage work. The truth is, times and people have changed. Marriage is not easy. Even great marriages require a ton of hard and cooperative work. That is typically why they are great marriages. Each spouse works hard to make sure the other spouse is getting what they want and need while also making sure they are getting what they want and need. Marriages that don't work are where one spouse takes and takes and takes and the other spouse gives and gives and gives until the taker resents the giver for not having a spine and the giver resents the taker for being so selfish.
You need to stop giving. You should gather all of the resolve you can muster and when you're ready, you just.stop.giving. He's taken enough. He either starts giving back...and I mean REALLY giving back or you're out of there. Forget what your grandmother said about a wife pleases her husband because that's her job. That's not the world we live in anymore.
You need to do what's best for you. You deserve a happy, stable life with a partner who gives as much as he gets. There is no reason to stay in this highly dysfunctional marriage. I know it is not going to be easy, but don't you believe you deserve better?!?
We all believe you deserve better.
I agree with all this.
It's not just the giving either, it's avoidance of conflicts. Conflicts are going to happen naturally in a marriage, when two people keep their own seats(centers) as they should as individuals, there is going to be tension. The tension is normal, like a rubber band it pulls together and pulls apart as the weights of your desires and your need to give and take fluctuates. If you don't exercise this tension, the elastic will dry out and when it's pulled too far in the opposite direction, it will snap. If you're not used to conflict, it's really difficult to recover from this situation...if there's been a habit of not advocating strongly for your needs, the other party can become lazy, or even become afraid, lost and insecure, because he/she isn't feeling that pull back in your direction that he should...so he/she has become untethered, and created tension both between you and him (your H) and him and her (the OW). People need to feel something of others in their life...he wasn't feeling the natural tension of a relationship, there was a void, and he filled it. I do think you should engage in some a**-kicking, but if you want him to hang around in your marriage, put on a slipper first. But do a**-kick. And don't overextend yourself to please him, be firm, be reasonable, look out for yourself. Go ahead and love him if you want, decide how much of a fool you're willing to be, a bit of fool is not a weakness, it's a demonstration of a love you can be proud of, to a point. Being a bit of a fool is an art form. Sometimes it's necessary. Like when you went and introduced yourself to that woman. I find that admirable. You are willing to put yourself on the spot to protect your marriage to someone you feel close to. You sent a clear signal that he is worth going out on a limb for. No matter what happens, you stood up for something you want, with someone you have a legitimate claim to. That's not being a fool, that's claiming what's yours, and in public too. It was necessary. Just do what you think is necessary, and you will be okay. Don't worry about being a fool, don't second guess yourself, don't be over-reactive, but don't under-react either. It's your marriage, you can certainly do what it takes to keep it if that's your choice. It takes time to influence another person, but if your heart is in it, you can persist and know you did your best. If it's ever time to quit, you'll know that too. But don't worry about that right now. Just do what you find reasonable.
That's because he played his 'role' and you didn't fall in line behind him (i.e. forgive him) like you are supposed to.
Are you familiar with the cycles of the abuser? Not the cycles of abuse, which you can google, but the cycles an abuser goes through to maintain control of his partner?
It will go something like this (assuming the partner has stopped participating, as you now have), in no particular order:
anger
sulking
threatening
ignoring
abandoning
buying you stuff
romance
silliness
talking about YOUR dreams (how he will help you fulfill them)
feeling sorry for himself
belittling you
guilting you
back to anger
It could be any combination of 'acts' and he will continue to cycle through them, often in split second swiftness, until he figures out which one 'works' on you.
OMG, I have never seen that cycle of the abuser.
It's my ex, perfectly. I left him at the back to anger one day.
And I saved a letter he wrote (uncharacteristic) that was all full of the dream stuff...I look at it not to second guess myself, but to remind myself that it was just evidence of a phase that he seemed to pass through every so often but never amounted to anything. As for guilt, if I so much as smiled at someone...and it got so bad that he didn't even have to be there for the guilt to take ahold. That's when I knew I was in trouble.
That's very good information, Turnera.
Where did you get it from?
I once had a boss who was a bit like that. Actually, more than one. It's a good pattern to memorize or to put up on one's fridge or in the back of one's appt book (where I keep the laws of consent...and symptoms of abuse...)
9Likes
Trying not to be a fool 
Re: Trying not to be a fool 
