General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Greetings everyone! After spending some time reading here and there, I decided to register and see if I can get some advice to help me/us out. Please, try not to be to harsh on me after reading my life summary below.
Here goes...
The Good:
We have been happily married for 11 years and have a smart and beautiful 4 year old daughter that will begin kindergarten in a few week. We are debt free, house is paid, have both good earnings and don't have financial issues. I am very fond of both of them and love them to death. I would willingly give my life to protect them both from harm. That is how much I love my wife and daughter.
The Bad:
Working in IT had me doing a lot of extra hours over the years, not to mention the job related stress and pressure. At some point, after my daughter was born, I started to play games over the internet and, unfortunately, became addicted, staying up late into the wee hours playing. I was spending more and more spare time playing and doing less and less chores around the house. Also started to neglect my wife and her needs. I was so into my games, that I was not realizing what was building up. Anytime she would want my attention, I was snapping at her because of this or that reason related to the games. Also, and this is difficult for me to say out in a public forum, but my libido suffered and I now have a PE problem...
The Ugly:
About 2 months ago, she told me that our relationship was falling apart. I thought, OK, I'll stop my games for a while and properly fulfill my duties
of father and husband. Tried to get intimate with her but she was having excuses every time I made advances. So, one day I directly approached the issue in a conversation. Well, it turns out that she is no longer physically interested in me and has no desire for intimacy with me. Last time we got intimate was about 7 months ago.
Last week, she tells me that our relationship will not last much longer, so not to bother buying something for the home. It felt like someone just kicked me in the face. That is when I finally realized that our family was going to be broken. The next day, we had a +5 hours conversation and found out that she was tired of being ignored, tired of my negativity (I ***** a lot about anything). She told me that, at one point, she thought I was having an affair. I told her that I had never ever betrayed her and had always been faithful and loyal. Also found out she was fishing on dating web sites. I asked if she had been involved in an affair already. Did not yet, she said. So she is intending on getting involved with other men. Said she would be happy to live alone and just get a man when needed.
The situation is still evolving at home, as we had a +3 hours discussion yesterday evening after the little one went to bed. At some point, we were both crying during the discussion. It really pained me to see my wife cry, because this was the first time ever, that I saw her cry. She wonders how can we fix the "broken tool"... I told her that are ways and methods to correct this situation, but it can take months, 3 to 6 I read somewhere.
My propensity to always look at the negative aspect of things is the #2 reason why she wants out, but that can be fixed to. I just need to kick myself in the rear and stop seeing glasses as half empty instead of being half full.
So many things were talked about, in these 2 evenings, that my head is still spinning. But mostly, I am hurt and the pain is almost physical and almost unbearable. The thought of loosing my wife, that I adore, is killing me. I am barely able to sleep more than 3 hours each night, very hard to go through the day. My thoughts are spinning in my head to the point where I feel like my head is going to explode.
Yesterday, she was saying that perhaps we can just be apart for a while and perhaps get back together at some unspecified point in time. To which I said, well, if you're going to be sleeping around with various guys, why would I take you back? Then she said that I did not really loved her, that I just saw her as my property...... Then she asked "Why do you love me??" I was speechless, too much emotions flying in the air.
In conclusion,
This is the gist of my situation at the moment. I don't have anyone near to talk this over with, and external opinions could help me see the light in my head.
Feel free to ask questions should you need clarifications or more details about something.
Thank you for reading me this far!
Please, don't be too harsh on me, I know I have messed up and I am suffering greatly at the moment. Spending my days with teary eyes, but trying to look "cool" for the sake of my little one.
I agree with you that a "trial separation" is a bad idea. She obviously has the desire to see what other kind of men are out there and if you separate, you can guarantee she'll start dating.
She's not attracted to you physically because she's been emotionally ignored for so long. She can regain that physical attraction to you through lots of time and effort on your part. You need to become the man you once were to her. Enough with the video games. Are they as important as your wife and daughter? No way.
If she's not invested in working on making the marriage better, then you're going to have a hard time doing it on your own. However, if she's willing to spend the time and effort to get back on track, then it's possible, but you're going to have to make the changes in your life that allows her to get what she wants and needs from you. Obviously your desires can't be ignored either, but you've admitted that this has been caused by your faults, so you'll have to spend a lot of time on bettering yourself.
I would also want to confirm 100% that she hasn't stepped outside of the marriage. The dating sites are a big red flag that would make me very nervous. You need to have a very candid conversation about that and other things to make sure this marriage can actually be repaired.
I don't think you two will solve this on your own... it's gone too far.
See a marriage counselor so both of you get all the issues on the table. Otherwise, you both will never feel the other is working on making the marriage work.
I've heard it said a lot around here that a man can be so oblivious to what's going on in his marriage, that by the time the wife says that she thinks the relationship is over, she's already decided that it's over and all that's left is the twitching.
I third the motion for counseling. If there's any chance to save your relationship, it's probably this.
__________________ "I'm not a real doctor, but I play one on TAM." "Dude, stop saying 'no.' If your wife offers you a quickie in the back of a moving van, you say "YES!"
Hamster ~ I'm sorry you're dealing with such pain right now. I can tell you're willing to do whatever it takes to find healing and restoration for your marriage, and I think that's wonderful. I have posted a few times on here about resources that I'm aware of through working with Focus on the Family. As I read your post, I was reminded of a book called Healing the Hurt in Your Marriage. Also, I agree with the other posters that marriage counseling is a good idea. I noticed that you're located in Canada. Focus does have an associate office there, and there are counselors available to speak with you over the phone. I pray that things improve in your relationship, and that you and your wife will be able to move past these hurts. God bless you!
Thanks everyone for reading about my troubles and for the kind words.
Last week, I had mentioned to her that we could try marriage counseling to see if it would help. Her only answer to that was "What for? It's a waste of money anyways".
We spent the week-end evenings talking more, I even asked her a bunch of questions, to which she firmly replied no. My questions to her were:
In the past, since we have been together, did you:
Try to contact other men?
Advertise yourself on dating web sites?
Meet other men?
Had extra marital affairs?
Are you currently in contact with other men?
She got irritated and started to shout a bit while answering. The thing is, I have proofs that she is, except for the extra marital affairs, have not found anything yet. See, last week, when I started to doubt what she was telling me, I installed Spector Pro and started to gather details.
Well, whit all I saw and found, I was floored!!! It seems like she has been in contact with men since early last year. I saw emails going back to Feb 2011, I saw her various profiles on the dating web sites, the PM exchange that she is currently having with one chap in particular. Of course, I hate his guts, but he is not responsible, she is the one throwing the bait out there. They even exchanged their cell phone number for texting, he is also married and cheating on his wife.
Back to this past week-end...
She has agreed to "give me" 6 months to fix my issues, so that we can bring back the relationship we had. So, next week, I'm meeting my physician to try to get a prescription for Viagra to help fix the main issue, which she says is 50% of our problem. But, up to last evening, she is still communicating with this one guy and, on top of it all, she is still receiving tons of emails (in 4 different email accounts) from the various dating sites she is on. In the last week, they have been trying to set up a first meeting, in a coffee shop in town, but there was always something messing up their plans. In her latest reply to the guy, she said she was really interested in meeting him, even if it was on his deck...
I am even more hurt and devastated. What to do? Expose her and cut my losses while I still have my sanity, or try even harder to win her back?
I never, ever imagine that our beautiful story would end up being in such a mess...
Why are you trying to win her back? What do you feel guilty here? She is cheating on you and you have proof!!!
I don't understand why people want to be with other people who have so little respect for them and willingly ignore their vows of marriage. Then, after they do that, they blame the spouse who isn't cheating! AGGHHHHHHHH!
It's your fault because you have ED? That's ridiculous! People who cheat have no one to blame for the cheating but themselves. If she doesn't want to be with you and wants to be with others, then it's on her to leave you properly.
You deserve better than this and you've convinced yourself that you don't. This woman needs to be put in her place immediately. She needs to know you know about her activities and that you're not going to tolerate that anymore.
I am not expert at all and I myself am going through a similar situation with my wife as far as the gaming addiction goes. She has felt neglected and hurt over the years from my gaming addiction.
But from reading a lot on these forums the past few weeks, I would confront her with the proof you have and set some boundaries if she is serious about giving it time to work. Demand no contact (NC) with these other men. Having an outside force is going to completely derail this process.
I also would advice you to get rid of anything that could enable you to play those games again. Many times my wife would threaten me about her leaving because of those games. Btw, I was heavily addicted to mmorpg games which sounds like what type of games you are as well.
My wife truly believes I would never cheat on her but has told me that she does feel cheated on by me with a game. I would just brush those emotions of her away think there is no way because its just a game. Now I really feel those neglect and hurt feelings she felt for so many years could be close to someone feeling cheated. Looking back now and not in defense mode trying to protect my gaming addiction, I'd agree with her that it was like me cheating on her but just with a game instead of another woman.
Right now I'm in the process of selling my gaming computer now. No need for it since I know 100% certain that I am not going to get back into gaming. I have a MBP that I use to check email, forums and such. No gaming on it what so ever and if I felt it could handle those games I'd get rid of it as well not because I still have a urge to play those games (which I have 0 urge to do now) but to show how serious I am about doing what ever it takes to save my marriage.
I have found out that just telling my wife something does nothing, she needs to see action because of all the times I told her I'd quit but never did.
As others have said before, counseling will be a big help to recovery.
Like I said in the beginning, I am not expert and please consider what others say as well. I maybe way off base on the confronting her with the proof part, so hopefully some others will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
My game addiction was with the various flavours of Starfleet Commander (5 to be exact), from Facebook, all played simultaneously. I gave away my accounts this morning, so that I don't get tempted again, although I doubt very much that I will ever return to similar types of games. I tell you, those games are VERY addictive, but it builds up slowly over time.
I am keeping 2 just for entertaining the little one: CastleVille and Indiana Jones. Each take about 5 minutes to play, as you build things or do missions, then done until the next day. Ten minutes is all it take to entertain my 4 year old daughter before her bed time.
Although I am hurting like hell, I am not willing to compromise to the point of negating who I am, my family values, and my moral values as a whole. Heck, she even proposed that we have an "open marriage". You can guess my response to that. Grrrrr...
So, I'm in limbo at the moment, still hoping that she will come around, but the reality is starting to sink in, starting to be obvious. She wants her freedom so she can become a swinger or whatever they are called today.
Some other information about us:
She just turned 42 and I just turned 55, both born on the same day. We are both fit and look younger for our age. Also, she is Russian born, and from my experience with the relatives and friends over there, Russians never admit when they are wrong, because they "cannot" loose the face. So, if anyone on here knows Russians well, you know what I mean.
I'm sorry if I am babbling a lot, but as I mentioned in a previous post, I have no one here to talk with, to vent off a little bit. My only brother is off on the West coast for a while and I am on the East coast (sort of).
Working in IT had me doing a lot of extra hours over the years, not to mention the job related stress and pressure. At some point, after my daughter was born, I started to play games over the internet and, unfortunately, became addicted, staying up late into the wee hours playing. I was spending more and more spare time playing and doing less and less chores around the house. Also started to neglect my wife and her needs. I was so into my games, that I was not realizing what was building up. Anytime she would want my attention, I was snapping at her because of this or that reason related to the games. Also, and this is difficult for me to say out in a public forum, but my libido suffered and I now have a PE problem...
Quote:
It seems like she has been in contact with men since early last year. I saw emails going back to Feb 2011
Well here's what I see.
About 4 years ago, you became addicted to gaming and developed ED. She tried (I'm sure) to get your attention, tell you how she felt by your actions and no doubt felt exactly how you feel right now over at least a period of 2 years. You ignored her pleas.
Somewhere in year 3, she decided to take matters into her own hands because by then she had completely withdrawn from you emotionally. Her needs didn't cease to exist because you weren't available to her to fill them anymore.
Now you're here (albeit very late in this) feeling all the things she felt about you 3 years ago.
IDK if this can be resolved. Too much time may have passed and emotionally she's not interested in you any longer. Your window of opportunity was a couple of years ago.
I'm not saying what she did is right, because it's not. She would have been better off leaving you altogether, not feeling out affairs with others. The question is, are you prepared to accept that she's wanting to move on and why? You can want her and your marriage to work, but if she's not interested in any of that, you're going to have to move forward.
Indeed she tried, but I was so addicted to those games that, I guess, I just brush off her complaints. It does not appear that she genuinely want to rebuild what we used to have. If she wants out, I will let her go without problems, not in my character. There is enough drama in life as it is. We split, we go our merry ways, remain "friends" for the sake of our daughter. She will take it hard enough as it is, without making her little life even harder. Wife will be happy to finally have what she has been trying to get for so long, and I will go on with my life. It's going to be a long and rough road for me, that I know for certain. I have been told many times, over the years, that I carry my heart on my shoulder.
It could be that she is playing the "OK, 6 month to fix the problems, then we'll see" card just to buy time until she is ready to make her move.
I just don't know, I'm hurt and devastated by this sudden situation that was rammed in my face, that I have a hard time thinking strait, let alone get a good night sleep. Only 2 hours last night.
It could be that she is playing the "OK, 6 month to fix the problems, then we'll see" card just to buy time until she is ready to make her move.
I just don't know, I'm hurt and devastated by this sudden situation that was rammed in my face, that I have a hard time thinking strait, let alone get a good night sleep. Only 2 hours last night.
On your first point, yes that could very well be what it is. A time buyer. 6 months to get her ducks in a row. If she consented to counseling with you for that time, I would think differently. The fact is she's not interested in that. So during that 6 months what is her responsibility and commitment to you to make things better? You really don't have one.
I'm sorry you are hurting by this, and I'm sure you feel like you've been blindsided. I don't think your situation is that uncommon though... I've been in the position of your wife at one time. Years of trying and being ignored or dismissed finally take a toll and you just give up. When your partner gets the message (usually you telling them you're out) then they suddenly 'hear' what you have to say and want to fix it. They just don't realize that you've greived the relationship and it's end for a long time by the time you say you've had enough. Too long to turn right around and give it 1 more chance in a lot of cases.
Sorry things are still not going well... I hope that you were able to get a better night's sleep last night. Another book that came to mind is Love Must be Tough. Hope this helps!
Well friends, it's definitely over between us, as a couple, as a family. Thank you all for your comments and compassion.
Yesterday, I had my appointment with my MD and got my prescription of Viagra. I explained the whole situation to him and he took the time explain the various treatments available, so he choose the Viagra route as a first step to try to fix the sex issue. He was very compassionate of my situation.
When my wife came home, she saw the boxes sitting on the kitchen counter. Her first question was "How much did you pay for this?"
After dinner, she started the discussion about our situation and said that this past week-end she had time to think over our relationship and current situation. We went away, as a family, for a short 2 day trip, just to change the scenery and environment, so she would have time to think without me bringing up any discussion about our situation. That was a complete failure. She had time to think indeed, but not with the outcome I was still hoping.
She told me that it would be very hard for her to try to work on "my" problem when she has absolutely no physical desire for me, let alone having an emotional attachment to me. She said she cares for me, she likes me as a relative as I am the closest thing she has as family here in North America (all of her family and relatives are in Russia).
Then she asked again, as she did last week, if I would forgive her if she would sleep with another man. I gave her the response as I did the previous times she asked me. There is no way that I could accept that she would jump the marriage boundaries and forgive her if she would cheat and betray me with another man. Well, this time, she did not trow a brick in my face, she dropped a bomb on me. She told me, very calmly, that about 8 months ago, she slept with a man she met on one of those dating web sites. Apparently a one time thing, so she says. This man's residence was conveniently located downtown, near where she works. She said she did not have any more contact with him afterward.
Well, whether there was one or more encounters, is all irrelevant now. She cheated and betrayed me, the point of no return has been reached for me. This occurred between the New Year and when we went to Cuba for our first ever family winter getaway.
I was so upset after she told me this, I started to loose my cool and was shouting at her. I told her that she made me sick to the stomach, that she should be ashamed of herself, because I would have never, ever do to her what she did to me. I even called her a ****... (I was wrong in telling her that, isn't? We never ever used name calling since we have been together.) I know she is not, and I know why she did it. She was hungry and she went to get the food she needed. I was hurt and wanted to hurt her too.
I am even more hurt than last week, I am crushed, devastated. Was not able to sleep at all last night. To much pain, emotions all messed up, my mind running in circle all night.
So, now we will be splitting up, that is definite, after we sell the house, which could take some time. Our priority will be the well being of our little one and her needs. Poor thing, she was so confused last evening, it pained me so much. She has no idea of what is coming, and she is such a smart and loving child.
She admits that it will be hard for her financially as she earns about 30% less than me. She admits that she has/had a nice stable and comfortable life together, but she says she needs to be alone as she wants to live instead of simply existing. I asked her to define the difference between the two, so I could understand better what she means. She could not give me a clear answer. So, I still don't know exactly what she meant by that.
Am I wrong in telling her that I could never forgive her for cheating on me? Am I wrong in telling her that I could never go back with her after what happened? Am I wrong in telling her I could never have another intimate relation with her after she's been with another man?
She said that she would be forgiving if the roles would have been reversed. She's saying that I don't really love her, but see her as my property, because if I really love her, I would be forgiving for what she did. She also said that if she really was the love of my life, as I told her often, she said it would be eazy to do, therefore she is not that much the love of my life as I have told her.
Somehow, I just don't know or see how I could forgive and forget. Am I wrong in thinking that way? I am so confused and hurt...
Seems like every day there is something new to put salt in the wounds and increase the pain levels. For the last few days, I have been feeling like all of this is just a bad dream and that I will wake up soon...
Sorry you're going through this Hamster. The writting was on the wall as you've been fighting to keep this together for some time - I understand from you earlier post.
Don't let her convince you to forgive her...why should you? She has made it clear she is no longer attracted to you or in love with you and to top it off betrayed the marriage. You are entitled to however you feel.
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