General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
I have been married for 16 years. Moved out twice and back in twice...various reasons - kids, $, trying to make it work....
We are having issues again.... i am never in a good mood around her... we don't talk, we don't have passionate moments, if we do anything sexual it is usually "get it done" kind of thing and not romantic at all, etc..... date night was torture as we had nothing to say... we just sat there at dinner, movie...
The counselor last night made it sound like the fact that she still loves me means that I should be on zoloft (or something similar) because he says I am depressed.
I am *myself* when I am around other people. The counselor said the other places I go is like candy to make me happy but deep down it is me masking my depression...????
Can it be that I am just not in love with my wife and need to relay that in some polite way and move on?
I see no great answer for me...... I personally don't want to take a bunch of mind altering drugs to numb my emotions...
The drugs don't alter your emotions per se, they sort them out. But if you're against taking anything then lets just talk about your other issues.
To answer your question, no, you cannot make yourself love anyone, including your wife. Even trying to do so will make you bitter and discontent.
Breaking this down a little, going to a movie on date night is not conducive to a productive time...you say you didn't talk, well, you usually don't talk at a movie. That's a big no-no...dinner is a start but you have to do more.
If the sex is mundane then make it different...it sounds like she is trying or willing to try but you're hung up on something so find out what it is and get rid of it...now.
Set the mood for romance...wine her and dine her...seduce her, put some effort into making things different and possibly something you haven't done before. Bring her chocolates and a bottle of chianti, make your living a recreation of a romantic spot or time or trip when you first got together.
If you really want it to work, find out what the issues are and work on them one by one...write down what you see are the issues and what you see are the solutions and ask your wife to do the same. Then find common issues and work on solving those...individual issues require attention too and you can work on them jointly.
Find out what she wants and needs and tell her what you want and need...
Don't torture yourself or her for long...set a time limit, six months is usually a good indicator of how things will turn out...and if they aren't better then separate.
But make an effort...a good woman who loves you is a very difficult thing to find.
Can you make yourself love your wife?
depends on your definition of love. Some people believe love is more about actions than feelings and some the opposite.
Love to me is more about action than feeling, or the actions come first, then the feeling follows. Love is patience, kindness, faith in, trust... and you GIVE that to your wife. If she does not respond, then I would say you have nothing to work with and your relationship may not be salvagable.
First off, get a new counselor...no you can't make yourself truly love your wife but I know many men and women go with th eflow an dsay they love their spouse when they really truly don't. It all depends on the person, I woul dnever do it, I would leave because it would depress me big time.
We have had trust issues in the past (her lodging in same hotel rooms as opposite sex and not telling me) that caused me to leave.....but then come back..... i have not felt "TRUE LOVE" for her for a while... i tried a few times to make things work and bring home a flower or something but the passion / spark / etc... is just not there...... i cannot find any way to bring it back.... i just isn't there....
Like Marriagehelp12 said, I think my depressed mode is more a function of my maritial situation than anything else... in additiion, my kids are now 13 and 15 which they are more independent.... i used to use them as the reason to stay and I would play with them which would occupy my time and mind. They do their own shizzle now so I don't have that crutch any more.
Hi Preacher..... i have tried but we just don't click.... things that i think are fun, she doesn't.... bed idea's that I have in mind she is not really into (nothing horrible in case you are wondering)... so it seems to boil down to we have grown apart and somehow it is my fault and I need drugs...
I have no where to go for about 3 months though.... could be a really long 3 months.... after that I have a townhouse that will be available and it is not far from my current house....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDPreacher
The drugs don't alter your emotions per se, they sort them out. But if you're against taking anything then lets just talk about your other issues.
To answer your question, no, you cannot make yourself love anyone, including your wife. Even trying to do so will make you bitter and discontent.
Breaking this down a little, going to a movie on date night is not conducive to a productive time...you say you didn't talk, well, you usually don't talk at a movie. That's a big no-no...dinner is a start but you have to do more.
If the sex is mundane then make it different...it sounds like she is trying or willing to try but you're hung up on something so find out what it is and get rid of it...now.
Set the mood for romance...wine her and dine her...seduce her, put some effort into making things different and possibly something you haven't done before. Bring her chocolates and a bottle of chianti, make your living a recreation of a romantic spot or time or trip when you first got together.
If you really want it to work, find out what the issues are and work on them one by one...write down what you see are the issues and what you see are the solutions and ask your wife to do the same. Then find common issues and work on solving those...individual issues require attention too and you can work on them jointly.
Find out what she wants and needs and tell her what you want and need...
Don't torture yourself or her for long...set a time limit, six months is usually a good indicator of how things will turn out...and if they aren't better then separate.
But make an effort...a good woman who loves you is a very difficult thing to find.
There are a lot of threads where somebody asks "How do I make myself feel xyz". You can't. Although love is a verb, it has to be triggered by something.
The best way to trigger it is to closely pay attention to your wife, and look for things you can admire. If you persist with this exercise, you will eventually come up with a list of good things. Unfortunately, try as you might, some bad things will sneak onto the list. If the negative things outweigh the good things, it's not likely you will be falling in love any time soon.
I am going to try that... i have come back twice now and each time it is short lived it seems....
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkTwain
HELP ME-
There are a lot of threads where somebody asks "How do I make myself feel xyz". You can't. Although love is a verb, it has to be triggered by something.
The best way to trigger it is to closely pay attention to your wife, and look for things you can admire. If you persist with this exercise, you will eventually come up with a list of good things. Unfortunately, try as you might, some bad things will sneak onto the list. If the negative things outweigh the good things, it's not likely you will be falling in love any time soon.
sorry about your trust issues....but if she is truely willing to love you..then you will be most happy if you devote yourself to loving her back.
ANSWER... Love is not emotion...it is a choice. You choose to love someone. First we have to break down our walls....face our issues and then dedicate ourselves to moving past all of our issues and chosing to love an imperfect human.
The IN LOVE term...describes the euphoria we feel when we are excited about someone...but it is always short lived. The deeper ...truer form of love is something we choose to give. It is biblical..(don't know if you are religious..don't mean to offend) Love is patient..kind...giving...understanding and self sacrificing...and it is very rare and precious. It is like a diamond in the rough....you must polish it ...cut it....set it in a ring of gold. Then...like a diamond..it is stronger than most anything. It requires sacrifice and attention. You CAN love her.....you have to make a choice and stick by it...through good and bad and that is why marriage vows read like they do.....remember your vows...remember what you promised.
If you discover that she really has cheated on you....then who would blame you for leaving....but don't make it a love or love not issue. Trust can be rebuilt.
Good luck.
sorry about your trust issues....but if she is truely willing to love you..then you will be most happy if you devote yourself to loving her back.
.
I agree with DeniseK, but have the same issue on the other side. I do not feel the passion for my husband and have not for years. Resentment built up, bad juju and some of the same trust issues you describe.
Lately, I have been trying to "re-start" the passion and trying to look for what I do admire. It is helping me feel better about staying with him. Maybe you have really decided to leave and just don't want to find the way to connect as the kids are grown. Passion does fade away. True love does not. Don't let your wishful thinking kill the relationship. Good luck! Hope you find a way to re-connect.
As one of the other posters said, find a new counselor. A good counselor will help you resolve life's problems rather than mask them with drugs. Our society is way to eager to take a pill rather than solve a problem.
Next, love is a choice. There's an awesome book on the market that goes into to this and how both people can't get what they need in a marriage to thrive. The book is "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. If both you and your wife can read the book and learn those principles, it may be a win win situation for both of you. It does sound as though she hasn't given up yet.
I would try several options before thowing in the towel. This divorce thing and starting over isn't exactly paradise either.
I agree with 827Aug and SFladybug.....unless you just want an excuse to give up...Don't. Divorce is a fate worse than death. The Love Dare is good too.....with a willing spouse you can accomplish anything. Just give it all a try...and yes...they give too many drugs..and sometimes the side effects are worse than what they are trying to cure. I know this from experience. I spent years trying to over come anxiety....cause by antidepressants. Never had the first attack in my life until the first night I took the Paxil.....tried all kinds of antidepressants and all of them had the same effect. Even years later....I still had attacks....and without any cause or explaination. It was caused by the drugs....a strange side effect they don't tell you about...but it was pure torture. I am healed not...without meds and happy about that...even if my marriage is going down the toilet.
Wish my hubby was willing to TRY. Count youself lucky.
Sure it is easy to be yourself around others...they don't know all of your most intimate secrets...that is what a spouse if for. It might be intimidating...but it is also a blessing. They can meet your needs like no one else can. get over that "feeling " issue...and get to the true heart of the matter.
If you've left & come back a few times then you didn't stay away long enough to truly figure out your feelings & what you really wanted. You also have to sit down with your wife & explain what you are going through. She may have the same feelings or maybe feel like something is going on. You have to be honest with her & yourself.
I am glad you are seeing a counselor but any good counselor's will want you to work through your feelings to see what really triggered this feeling. If your depressed that person will get to the root of what is going on. Also they will ask to see your wife if that is ok with you & her. When you are ready then see if she will attend because both of you will be able to work things out in a better light. If the environment is calm & another person is there who is bias then they can point out certain things to both of you.
I've felt like you at points through my marriage but I did some soul searching to what was going on with me. I also went to counseling & figured out that it was something I was going through with my past that was making me feel this way.
Two elements of your story resonate in me…that you are happy with your friends and others (or for that matter just about anyone else) - and that you are not happy around your wife. In this way we seem almost exactly the same in situation. I am going to write a lot – because I feel very sympathetic to your plight. Please feel only obliged to read as far as you consider my ramblings relevant to yourself.
I would like to start out by saying that I am alarmed and frightened that the idea of mind altering drugs is creeping into the discussion. I had a friend who was a genuine manic depressive – and with no (partner) relationship complications eventually had his brain chemistry lurch back and forward from the extremes of ecstasy and depression that he eventually “threw himself off a bridge”. In this I believe I have first hand experience of such a condition – and wish to demonstrate that I possess an appreciation for the need of such medications in extreme cases. But I am very wary of all the advice I am given – be it from a councilor or a doctor or a mechanic or a climate change specialist. It is so hard to get independent and unbiased advice these days – there are so many “trailing commissions” and “frequent prescriber programs” and individuals whose funding is dependant on increasingly alarmist (or dismissive) predictions. For most service providers I genuinely believe it is not a evil calculating scheme, but just gradually over time they become compromised by their hip pocket. I go to great personal expense to get multiple quotes and opinions from doctors, mechanics and dentists. I once moved city and went to a new dentist that suddenly told me I needed 4 new fillings. My last dentist has seen few problems. Was my last dentist incompetent; a sycophant to my “noninterventionist ideas” to keep me as a customer; or was the new guy in bed with the amalgam companies? I sought further and further on that one issue alone. I still have all my own teeth to date (and fewer fillings than otherwise) so the expense seems worth it to date.
So with respect to the issue of your own mental health coming into question - in terms of engineering a solution in the marriage to the benefit of everyone (including yourself?) – I would consider the issue of your brain chemistry being one that is predominately your own. Your personality; your mind; your body. We men do not seek enough attention for our “machinery” – don’t do enough preventative maintenance. If you, yourself, are genuinely beginning to doubt your own mind – then I would be seeing my general practitioner – and a few others. I would be seeing professionals whose sole focus is you – your health – where their goal is to help you be healthy and happy without all the conflicting objectives of crow barring you back into some situation where they feel you should fit. That complicated context of the advice doesn’t sit right with me. I would be working one on one with a trusted, open, consultative, physician., And the advice does not always involve medication. Proper diet, exercise, control of alcohol or caffeine consumption, mental exercises and proper distressing can all give you an appropriate lift.
I questioned my own mind for a while in the context of a situation I consider very similar to yours. It never came to seeing a GP for me. As I will go into next, I decided that my reactions to the situation was perfectly reasonable. There is nothing wrong with a specific thing displeasing you – nothing wrong with being sad or anxious at a specific topic or task. Life is not usually all smooth sailing and sandy beaches – and confronted with difficult or uncomfortable things how can it be wrong to be unhappy about it? You will be happy and sad – and I think, ironically, it is usually the same things that make me happy – and the same things that make me sad. Just think for a moment, that if it was a solitary thing that made you happy one day, then angry the next, would you not consider that to be more symptomatic of an oscillating brain chemistry that different things making you happy and sad?
Medication aside – my personal situation for your interest.
My marriage is pragmatic. We function well as a team or business. We have three great children that brings both of us great joy. But as a pair we are different. We share little time together – and pass up all opportunities to do anything together. (at least, in this regard, you are better than us because you went out to a dinner and a movie). My wife is a “career animal” – and has little energy for anything else. I am more your “artistic/dreamer/socialiser” sort. I have many friends – social clubs – and am not happy unless I am immersed with others training or drinking or at a football match or a coffee shop or restaurant discussing Nietzsche to Neo-conservatism. I stare at the wall of my shed with great pride at all the photos of me with my mates – going back 20 years, me with long hair/short hair /fat /thin /beard /goatee /sideburns /bald – great times – wild times – uncertain times – bad times. At pubs, at sports stadiums, in art galleries, at the top of mountains, by the old beer fridge at someone’s house 15 years ago. All of these moments are precious to me – and I cannot begin to explain how they elevate my spirit when I glance at them while in my shed. Some were shot at dizzying heights – others were taken at pitiful lows in all of our lives. But the journey of me, and my friends, is my life.
They are all male by the way…I have but one female friend…but she is not pictured in my montage…but in that lies another story. I guess the purpose of this tidbit of information is that I feel the need to point out that I happiest and comfortable in the company of men. My mates. Our familiar, and yet somehow always groundbreaking and evolving conversations. We have been through so much together – we have been there for each other, and at times notably absent, proud and ashamed for it respectively. We are stronger for it. In recent years only my children have grown to a point to be able to eclipse the glow I feel for them. Not replace it – just eclipse and distract me from where I would otherwise be at heart.
My wife? Well it is a long and complicated path. She adored me for the fun loving, energetic, sharing, wild, larrikin person that I was. She glanced into the world that was me – and my friends – and liked us all. But it was me that she was settled on from the start. For a while she motivated me to divert a substantial portion of that energy and exuberance her way – and she basked and enjoyed the mirth and mayhem and reflection and nostalgia and passion that I feel for everything. Our life together, it seems, was destine to be perfect.
Somewhere along the way paradise was lost. My friends never diminished in stature to me, and really, neither did my wife. She is really all that she ever was. But for me, life is a journey, and evolution, and changing experience. Just as my wall is littered with the physical manifestations of my evolution through the years so my mind, my priorities, my dreams and my ambitions have changed. My wife is all that she ever was – and sadly – all that she will ever be. It is adequate – acceptable and manageable.
Some of the mates on my shed wall have drifted away, physically, and then out of communication all together for one reason or another – and when I see them it evokes a melancholy reminiscence in me that, were fate to throw us together again, tomorrow we would slot straight back into our old banter together again. My wife, also, has drifted away from me…or is it that I have drifted away from her? (since I did say that it was her that had not changed)…but due to the practical need of family we are tethered together…despite the fact that we are apart in spirit; metaphorically separated.
Due to my priorities of family and friends, and her career aspirations, neither of us crave the need of another. I can honestly say that with great certainty neither of us has, or is having, an affair. We are just wrapped up in other aspects of our lives – compensating for the lack of warmth and passion (more than adequately) in other ways.
When I look at my wife, when I inform her I am going out, or going down the shops to pick something up, or taking my children to the park, or bidding her a good night, or going out to the cinema by myself, there is only a great sadness in me. I am sad because I am regretful of all that we could have been; of the passion I have shared with others, but not really with her; of all the wasted effort I put into trying to awaken her spirit and liberate her mind to beauty of so many different mediums and art forms; of all of the passion I had for her being left to rot on the vine. Yes – like you – my wife no longer brings me any joy – and it pains me. And I know it pains her too. It is just that she is better at burying it than me – ignoring it – wallpapering over it. I occasionally have a glass or two more wine than I should and lashing out in my disappointment and frustration – proclaiming various truths and articulating the patheticness of our situation. She submissively accepts most of the fault, (when quite often I would prefer she threw something at me and blamed me), and then apologises insincerely while promising to change and put in more of an effort into the relationship while negating any genuine intention by pointing out (rightfully so) that it is not really possible for any of us to change.
I eventually sober up, throw back up the barriers to my feelings, and return to my resolve of silence for another month or two. (and in this I have learnt that people cannot chance because I can’t – for the life of me – build a big enough barrier in myself to hold back these periodic bursts of disappointment no matter how great my resolve). She gets back to work – as her one true love - like me and my friends. I know she misses me. I know she wished she had me back. But I feel only so much as a jewel in her crown – another current to feed the facets of her life. If I am there she will take it – and if I am not, she will do without it. In this, was the death of my passion for her, as I consider myself not to be someone there to be ‘taken or leaven’. In her is not the will to come after me – and in me no longer the will to go to her.
So we stay together – but separate. Enriched and elevated by our children – but saddened and angered by each other. Probably…until death do us part.
The question is – is the picture that I paint of myself – for you?
can you *make* yourself love your wife? 
