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post #91 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 07:16 PM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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Originally Posted by uncool View Post
.. but that I keep thinking it will change. She keeps giving me little glimmers of hope leading me on I guess.
I hear ya. I've lived with shreds of hope for years. The thing is, I finally realized that hoping things will change is wishful, what-if thinking.

We are dealing with the here and now. That is what-is thinking. You have a wife who is consumed with hurt, which has metastasized into hatred for your entire family.

My gut instinct is telling me that when you assert yourself and say, "Enough!" she backs down and wants you to be with her. As soon as she's comfy again, she kicks you back to the curb.

That is her agenda. And it doesn't sound particularly healthy. I lived with my alcoholic husband for years. I thought I was a total failure as a wife if I left, so I stayed and witnessed him decend into the depths of his addiction. It was lonely, scarey, and a no-win situation.

He didn't want help. He still doesn't want help. Assuming your wife identifies herself as a Christian, I'm sure you realize her behavior is anything but. So, that puts the onus of responsibility on your plate. There are times we have to confront.

You have an undiapered elephant in your living room. It stinks. No, I'm not saying your wife has to forgive your brother. But she has to find healing and peace. Apparently, that isn't forthcoming.

I think you may want to reconsider moving out again and not coming home until she gets solid help for her issues. Don't get sucked in if she offers sex or improved communication. Let her get help. If she refuses, live apart.


I refuse to make anyone a priority in my life who considers me nothing more than an option.

You can't start the next chapter of your life if you keep re-reading the last one.
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post #92 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 08:10 PM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

Marriage is supposed to be a loving and supportive environment. This you definitely do not have.

Marriage is not supposed to be an emotional prison. This you do have.

If you were my brother or son, I would urge you to leave and find some happiness for yourself. There's only so much you can do to lead your W to a better marriage. She isn't owning her part of your problems.

This is sad beyond belief. You leave your W and she doesn't notice for a week? The issue with your mother is all connected in your W's mind, no doubt, but I absolutely don't believe it's something that you can fix. You keep trying to fix yourself, but she's the one who is broken.

I would leave and urge her to get counseling.
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post #93 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 08:12 PM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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mkgal I'm sure you're a valuable asset to this forum but I believe you jump to conclusions to easily.
My wife and I were both virgins until after we got married. Somebody can be horny and not have sex. Are you still disgusted with my wife now ?



.
Those were your words. I hadn't said *I* was disgusted.....you said *you* were. This was all posted in post #81:

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2011 I get an apartment and move out. Wife doesn't know I've even left for over a week after I'd gone. Didn't even notice all my stuff was gone. I mail her a letter about why I left
-I'm at the deepest low in my whole life.
-single ladies at my new apartment complex take immediate notice in me and start flirting and inviting me over for dinner. It was great! I found out that I wasn't really an unattractive man after all! I still had it! Women were still attracted to me !
-wife cries and begs me to come back
-I move back home
-wife starts acting horny. I don't buy it. I'm disgusted in her
-sex stops after 2 months.
-2012 no interest in sex any more again
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post #94 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 08:41 PM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

You don't need to have sex to have an emotional affair, you can read all about them on here - and many no doubt started out as harmless flirting.

As for the parents thing, I took that from this comment:

Quote:
I was SOOOOO glad that I opened up the can of worms with her parents asking me why she wasn't going with me.
The over-emphasis there made me see that as a bit of a "neener-neener told you so" kind of moment.

Which - I don't know, part of me wonders if it isn't the slightest bit possible that there is some transference going on. Is it possible that your wife was possibly abused as a child and that the event with your daughter set her off thinking about it? Is she transferring her feelings about it to your mother because addressing it otherwise is indeed, too difficult?

But again, if she isn't willing to see someone and talk about it, it might be impossible to get to the bottom of all this.
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post #95 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 10:14 PM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

Uncool,

Here’s my take on this situation.

You and your wife have every right in the world to be upset with your brother and since you know him, you two can of course decide if you think he’s grown beyond something very bad he did as a 13 yr old.

But your wife’s many year hate of your mother, who did the right thing in calling the police, makes no sense at all really. Her attacking your mother in the manner you describe was also out of hand. But I think your wife has learned that this anger is very useful to her. It’s a big club that she gets to beat you up with often and she can control you and your world with it.

Your wife has used this incident with your mother to not only stop all of her contact with your family but to make it near impossible for you have relationships with anyone in your family.

When a person clings to anger, it’s usually because the anger gives them some kind of power or control. Her is directed at your mother (and thus your entire extended family) and you. She’s also negatively influencing your friendships. The net effect is that this gives her tremendous control/power. She is controlling you, keeping your tied to her because you have lost a lot of your external support system. This is something that emotionally abusive people do. Once you are isolated she can mistreat you and you have not one to turn to for support. Her control is complete.

She’s done a good job of this as well. She’s mean, cold, withholds all sex and affection, etc etc. And you stay because you have been beat down by this.

The reason that she will not tell you what’s going on with her, won’t go to counseling, won’t work to improve things is that she likes this isolated world she controls. She’s in her comfort zone.

I think what you did on the holidays was a very good thing. When a person is as disrespectful and mean to their spouse as your wife is, they should be exposed to the world in a similar manner that we often advise people to expose their WS. Generally when a person is mistreated by their spouse they hide it to the world. They tell no one. This actually helps the disrespect and mistreatment to continue. So your wife has been cutting you off from your extended family for years. But she hid it from her family, even to the point of misleading them into thinking that you both were spending the holidays with your family. She does not want her family to know what she’s doing. This is a very telling thing.

Your wife is not going to stop this behavior. You cannot change her. You can only change the way you interact with her.
There are several things that I see that make me think that divorcing her is your best bet. She refuses to even discuss the problems, much less work on them. Her disrespect and abuse of you is getting worse as time goes on. Your marriage is now sexless.. this is a form of spousal abuse by her. She has written things in her diary that make it clear that she is just using you for support right now. And you are profoundly unhappy. These are all good reasons to leave.

Also you say that in her diary she talks about leaving you when the children are out of high school. That translates to “she will stay around and barely put up with you” until our marriage is considered long term by the courts. Then she will get lifelong spousal support. What a deal for her. Not such a good deal for you.

I don’t know what state you live in, but in some of them if you have been married over 20 years then lifelong spousal support is reality. Does she work outside the home? If so what % of the joint income does she earn? In some cases you could end up having to give her 1/3 to ½ of your income for the rest of your life while she would not be required to work at all.

This is a woman who does not seem to have any love for you. Why would she stay uncles there is a gain for her in doing so?
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post #96 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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Originally Posted by mkgal1 View Post
Those were your words. I hadn't said *I* was disgusted.....you said *you* were. This was all posted in post #81:
ok gottcha and I apologize for thinking you meant something else

yes I was disgusted at her sudden fake sex drive just to get me back. I had to explain to her that orgasm isn't why I left her.




.

Last edited by uncool; 01-23-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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post #97 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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Originally Posted by Starstarfish View Post
...part of me wonders if it isn't the slightest bit possible that there is some transference going on. Is it possible that your wife was possibly abused as a child and that the event with your daughter set her off thinking about it? Is she transferring her feelings about it to your mother because addressing it otherwise is indeed, too difficult?

But again, if she isn't willing to see someone and talk about it, it might be impossible to get to the bottom of all this.
transference is possible I guess.
No, I don't believe she was ever abused as a child. Our bishop told me he already asked her this.
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post #98 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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You and your wife have every right in the world to be upset with your brother and since you know him, you two can of course decide if you think he’s grown beyond something very bad he did as a 13 yr old. yes he has grown beyond. In fact his newborn is in the NICU center right now at the hospital and I've heard how this has affected him. My wife even got christmas presents for his kids and wife (but not him). So yes pointing out to my wife that her daughters abuser has changed would NOT work well in my favor. It would show I have sympathy for the abuser. So I'll just keep it to myself

But your wife’s many year hate of your mother, who did the right thing in calling the police, makes no sense at all really. Her attacking your mother in the manner you describe was also out of hand. But I think your wife has learned that this anger is very useful to her. It’s a big club that she gets to beat you up with often and she can control you and your world with it. agreed

Your wife has used this incident with your mother to not only stop all of her contact with your family but to make it near impossible for you have relationships with anyone in your family.

When a person clings to anger, it’s usually because the anger gives them some kind of power or control. Hers is directed at your mother (and thus your entire extended family) and you. She’s also negatively influencing your friendships. well sort of. She doesnt really tell me who I can hang with The net effect is that this gives her tremendous control/power. She is controlling you, keeping your tied to her because you have lost a lot of your external support system. I see where you're going with this, butl I do have people to support me... she's just said that our marriage is none of their business and has banned me from talking to them about it. Which I agree with to a degree.

She’s done a good job of this as well. She’s mean, cold, withholds all sex and affection, etc etc. And you stay because you have been beat down by this. yes

The reason that she will not tell you what’s going on with her, won’t go to counseling, won’t work to improve things is that she likes this isolated world she controls. She’s in her comfort zone.

I think what you did on the holidays was a very good thing. When a person is as disrespectful and mean to their spouse as your wife is, they should be exposed to the world in a similar manner that we often advise people to expose their WS. Generally when a person is mistreated by their spouse they hide it to the world. They tell no one. This actually helps the disrespect and mistreatment to continue. So your wife has been cutting you off from your extended family for years. But she hid it from her family, even to the point of misleading them into thinking that you both were spending the holidays with your family. She does not want her family to know what she’s doing. This is a very telling thing. true

Your wife is not going to stop this behavior. You cannot change her. You can only change the way you interact with her.
There are several things that I see that make me think that divorcing her is your best bet. She refuses to even discuss the problems, much less work on them. Her disrespect and abuse of you is getting worse as time goes on. Your marriage is now sexless.. this is a form of spousal abuse by her. She has written things in her diary that make it clear that she is just using you for support right now. And you are profoundly unhappy. These are all good reasons to leave.

Also you say that in her diary she talks about leaving you when the children are out of high school. That translates to “she will stay around and barely put up with you” good point and I agree until our marriage is considered long term by the courts. Then she will get lifelong spousal support. What a deal for her. Not such a good deal for you.

I don’t know what state you live in, but in some of them if you have been married over 20 years then lifelong spousal support is reality. year #19 right now yikes..I'll have to check what my states rules are Does she work outside the home? If so what % of the joint income does she earn? about 25% In some cases you could end up having to give her 1/3 to ½ of your income for the rest of your life while she would not be required to work at all.

This is a woman who does not seem to have any love for you. Why would she stay unless there is a gain for her in doing so?
I agree with most everything here.. but she does encourage me and my children to see my family members. Just not with her.
as usual your post is very helpful to me and will consider a lot of things you've mentioned
thank you
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post #99 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

So I appreciate the insights and takes on what to do with my marriage. And you're right my wife is a real biznatch to me most of the time. I've bought in to a program over at marriedandhappy.com that teaches men how to be attractive to their wives again. It teaches us guys how to recognize and treat unacceptable behavior on the spot... and how women actually start respecting men who do so. It's sort of working but usually takes about a year so they say depending on how stubborn the wife is.
A few days ago my wife yelled at me in front of the kids something that was rude and totally uncalled for. I stopped her on the spot and told me she wasn't allowed to speak to me like that especially in front of the kids. She shut her mouth and shunned away... still steaming... but she stopped. Yesterday morning she apologized to me for yelling at me. This might not seem like a big deal to some. But I can't remember the last time she apologized. Last night my wife was a real sweetheart and spoke pleasantly to me and brought dinner to me at my office and laughed and joked with me and actually came and sat next to me watching TV last night. I don't know if some of you were praying for me or her or what but that's a milestone accomplishment in my eyes. Of course she still sleeps with her clothes on and won't snuggle or touch me w/a 10ft pole... but I've put that concern off to the side right now and hope that will come later...because I really want my marriage to work and I believe baby steps are the key

My original post talks about how I need ideas on how to mend the relationship between my wife and mother. This is still what I'd like to get out of my thread. Any Ideas?

I believe somehow if I can start accomplishing this that my marriage could get back on track.
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post #100 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:20 AM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

Uncool life is too short. Find happiness. You deserve it, seem liked you lived a real bumpy ride with this woman.

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post #101 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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My original post talks about how I need ideas on how to mend the relationship between my wife and mother. This is still what I'd like to get out of my thread. Any Ideas?

I believe somehow if I can start accomplishing this that my marriage could get back on track.
You want concrete comments on how to deal with the rift between your W and your mother. I've already said that I think your W needs professional help. As far as what a spouse can do, my impulses are probably not what you would do.

FWIW, I would read her a short and sweet riot act. I would say:

"This has gone on long enough and I won't tolerate it anymore. I don't want a spouse who can behave this way and put me in such an embarrassing, painful position year after year. I believe you never stop to think what this does to me. So, it stops now or we don't go on."

People are different, I know, but that's what I would do.
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post #102 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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You want concrete comments on how to deal with the rift between your W and your mother. I've already said that I think your W needs professional help. As far as what a spouse can do, my impulses are probably not what you would do.

FWIW, I would read her a short and sweet riot act. I would say:

"This has gone on long enough and I won't tolerate it anymore. I don't want a spouse who can behave this way and put me in such an embarrassing, painful position year after year. I believe you never stop to think what this does to me. So, it stops now or we don't go on."

People are different, I know, but that's what I would do.
thanks !
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post #103 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:47 AM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

Unfortunately, Uncool - you cannot force your wife to like your mother, nor to forgive her. And personally, I'd work on improving your immediate family dynamic (you/wife/kids) before I'd work on her getting along with your mother. Perhaps eventually if your dynamic improves, your wife might be at the point to let it go. But if you don't fix the problems between you and the wife first, and try and press the matter, you are likely to just entrench her opinion further, and reverse any progress the two of you are making.

You and your kids see your family. She doesn't stop you from doing so, nor demand that you don't. While people might ask questions and it might be uncomfortable and leaves you feeling a bit lonely. If you want to see them more often - work on seeing them more often. Decide beforehand what answer you'll give people, "Me and x, y, z (your kid's names) are here, and looking to enjoy your company, let's leave it at that and have a good time."

If they love and respect you, they'll accept that and let it go, rather than stir the pot.
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post #104 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 11:21 AM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

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Unfortunately, Uncool - you cannot force your wife to like your mother, nor to forgive her. And personally, I'd work on improving your immediate family dynamic (you/wife/kids) before I'd work on her getting along with your mother. Perhaps eventually if your dynamic improves, your wife might be at the point to let it go. But if you don't fix the problems between you and the wife first, and try and press the matter, you are likely to just entrench her opinion further, and reverse any progress the two of you are making.

You and your kids see your family. She doesn't stop you from doing so, nor demand that you don't. While people might ask questions and it might be uncomfortable and leaves you feeling a bit lonely. If you want to see them more often - work on seeing them more often. Decide beforehand what answer you'll give people, "Me and x, y, z (your kid's names) are here, and looking to enjoy your company, let's leave it at that and have a good time."

If they love and respect you, they'll accept that and let it go, rather than stir the pot.
From reading the rest of the thread, I agree that the marital relationship is more important than the wife/mil issue.

This was a great post, very very good advice.
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post #105 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: Wife hates my mom with a passion

You found out what works.

Leaving.

Defective people cannot always be fixed.
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