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Old 02-12-2013, 06:03 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Pipedreamer, what's her volunteer activity involve? Is Machiavelli correct about Theater?
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Did he say beers with the guys?

He said dance and karaoke

.....and the difference between this and GNO is?
Right.

Having a few beers with guy friends sans girls is ok.

Just like a woman being with her gfs sans guys is ok.

But either spouse going out dancing without the other is incredibly disresepctful in my opinion.

Make note I don't care about the gender here.

Hopefully no woman on here objects to the guys going dancing but not the ladies.

He needs to take his wife out dancing.

Again, if my wife informed me she was going out with her GFs and they were going drinking and dancing without me .... AYFKM. Oh hell no.

So it would not be right for me to do the same. If I did not care if she did this I would question why I did not care.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:43 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Well, I've learned what a nice guy really is. Definitely, some really not some nice things go along with being the type of nice guy I am because I have expected to be rewarded for my service and deeds to my wife's happiness. I've put my own interests aside thinking that by being available more she would be more appreciative of me. Since she is gone so often, I gave up my time for activites, just to be around her and the kids during the time she is home, but we really didn't have much quality time together, maybe watching TV shows or something. It isn't selfish to have my have needs and to express them to my wife. It's okay to express my opinions to my wife without fear of rejection or worrying that I will upset her and make her unhappy. I learned that I have to take responsiblity for my life and my own personal happiness. While my wife and children are important of me, I cannot give up my personal identify for them. Right now, my wife still loves me, but she doesn't have much trust or confidence in me. She still has resentments that she needs to let go of in order to forgive me. She has started therapy to work on forgiveness and to address other personal issues she has. Ultimately, I believe I will be be able to stand stall and looking in the mirror and be proud of myself. Once my wife see's that I am following through and making long-term changes I believe that her attitude will change towards me and that our relationship will improve. However, even it our relationship doesn't improve, I will have because I will have become a more complete and happier person for coming face to face with my fears and insecurities and realizing that I can rise above them; That I don't need to be anyone but myself in order to be loved by my wife or anyone else. That I can live without my wife's presence in my life and that there other women in the world that would be happy and accept the way that I am.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:13 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Your wife sounds bossy & controlling.

If my husband wants to go to a sports bar with the guys, he simply tells me. I am always invited.

As to dancing, that is something we do together.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:35 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Thanks. You're right dancing should be reserved for husband and wife. My wife is a bit bossy at times. Sometimes it bothers me. I love her though.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:39 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Pipedreamer, just wanted to say you're doing great. Keep up the good work on yourself, things will get better. Maybe she'll change and do the work she needs to do, and maybe she won't but don't let that stop YOU from being the healthiest you can be.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:07 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Pipedreamer, just wanted to say you're doing great. Keep up the good work on yourself, things will get better. Maybe she'll change and do the work she needs to do, and maybe she won't but don't let that stop YOU from being the healthiest you can be.
I'd like to thank you and everyone here that has taken the time to read my posts and given me there opinions and advice. My eyes have been open by the different perspectives provided. Thanks for the encouragement. It's really much appreciated.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Pipedreamer, what's her volunteer activity involve? Is Machiavelli correct about Theater?
Ummm yeah, I must have missed that too. Volunteer Activity does not equal Community Theatre.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:00 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Wrong with You: Your a 40+ Married Man with 2 Kids

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Well, I've learned what a nice guy really is. Definitely, some really not some nice things go along with being the type of nice guy I am because I have expected to be rewarded for my service and deeds to my wife's happiness. I've put my own interests aside thinking that by being available more she would be more appreciative of me. Since she is gone so often, I gave up my time for activites, just to be around her and the kids during the time she is home, but we really didn't have much quality time together, maybe watching TV shows or something. It isn't selfish to have my have needs and to express them to my wife. It's okay to express my opinions to my wife without fear of rejection or worrying that I will upset her and make her unhappy. I learned that I have to take responsiblity for my life and my own personal happiness. While my wife and children are important of me, I cannot give up my personal identify for them. Right now, my wife still loves me, but she doesn't have much trust or confidence in me. She still has resentments that she needs to let go of in order to forgive me. She has started therapy to work on forgiveness and to address other personal issues she has. Ultimately, I believe I will be be able to stand stall and looking in the mirror and be proud of myself. Once my wife see's that I am following through and making long-term changes I believe that her attitude will change towards me and that our relationship will improve. However, even it our relationship doesn't improve, I will have because I will have become a more complete and happier person for coming face to face with my fears and insecurities and realizing that I can rise above them; That I don't need to be anyone but myself in order to be loved by my wife or anyone else. That I can live without my wife's presence in my life and that there other women in the world that would be happy and accept the way that I am.
I will leave the details to the No More Mr Nice Guy crowd. I think there are some good take aways.

However, I see nothing wrong with a person who demonstrates love to another and who therefore expects love in return. This does not make the person bad or flawed. In many instances a good guy can do this and indeed get love back. Nothing evil about it. It is just that past a point it has diminishing returns and at the extreme actually has negative results. Hence one needs balance.

Being good to someone else hsould build up Oxytocin. Building Attraction should build Dopamine.

That said, sexual attraction alone is not what it is about. You can be sexually attracted to many people and not be in love with them.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:09 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I sent my wife an email asking her how she would feel about me going out tonight by myself or with a male friend after we get the kids off off to sleep. I told her I was thinking about doing something involving listening to music, dancing, karaoke.
...

She said, "where are you even getting these ideas from?".
TAM

It's the way the 180 seems to be presented by some: "go out to bars, flirt with other women, move on"

Good way to push the marriage over the divorce cliff IMO

Pipedreamer, you should have healthy activities and socializing with other men. Many ideas have been suggested on the thread. It's hard on a wife to be her husband's only social outlet. I've suggested to my husband numerous times that he call so-and-so (a married male biker from church) and see if they can plan a bike trip together. It makes me feel like his mother instead of his wife that he can't go "play" without me/us. It's an unhealthy dependency IMO.

Unfortunately, my husband went that route that you are toying with - bars and flirting- and has been unfaithful. Good way to push the marriage over the cliff
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #56 (permalink)
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going out for a couple beers with a buddy or two, i see no problem with that. as long as it is occasional and not like, every other day after work.
going to a bar by yourself?
nothing but trouble can come from that. one way or another.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:45 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Wrong with You: Your a 40+ Married Man with 2 Kids

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TAM

It's the way the 180 seems to be presented by some: "go out to bars, flirt with other women, move on"
Yeah, those "some" are NOT people who understand the 180.
Those "some" are the 'increase your Alpha' crowd.

They have twisted the 180 theory to fit their OWN agenda, not unlike how the Nazis twisted Nietzsche's theories to fit their OWN agenda. Or how radical feminists have twisted the equal rights movement to fit their OWN agenda.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:55 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Oh and when he was going out to bars (blowing off family responsibilities, breaking promises to his children, self-centered, unreliable, unfaithful) I felt like I had an extra "rebellious teenage child" instead of a husband (only this teenager was uncorrectable).

So again, he set me up to be "mother" instead of "wife".

Not that you are like him, just my red flag about this idea on TAM that you manipulate her into sexual attraction by being a "bad boy" going out to bars flirting and going into "rebel" mode. Healthy grown-up married women don't want "bad boys".
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:05 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Wrong with You: Your a 40+ Married Man with 2 Kids

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TAM

It's the way the 180 seems to be presented by some: "go out to bars, flirt with other women, move on"

Good way to push the marriage over the divorce cliff IMO

Pipedreamer, you should have healthy activities and socializing with other men. Many ideas have been suggested on the thread. It's hard on a wife to be her husband's only social outlet. I've suggested to my husband numerous times that he call so-and-so (a married male biker from church) and see if they can plan a bike trip together. It makes me feel like his mother instead of his wife that he can't go "play" without me/us. It's an unhealthy dependency IMO.

Unfortunately, my husband went that route that you are toying with - bars and flirting- and has been unfaithful. Good way to push the marriage over the cliff
The 180 is not for saving a marriage.

It is one thing for a husband to let his wife see that he is attractive to other women. But it is flat unfaithful to seek out other women, even if it is intended to cause jealousy.

I think that is flat wrong.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Yeah, those "some" are NOT people who understand the 180.
Those "some" are the 'increase your Alpha' crowd.

They have twisted the 180 theory to fit their OWN agenda, not unlike how the Nazis twisted Nietzsche's theories to fit their OWN agenda. Or how radical feminists have twisted the equal rights movement to fit their OWN agenda.
I am very much an increase your Alpha person for men who have lost their edge. To get back a balance. But in no way does increasing the Alpha mean being unfaithful or being an @$$hole. Not all the TAM guys understand this or care to.
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