The Art of Avoiding the Point
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Art of Avoiding the Point

My Fiancée has developed the art of avoiding the point to a sublime level. I have learnt that it is totally fruitless trying to have a discussion about anything that isn't "happy-shiny".
She could argue for 24 hours straight without ever allowing the original point to be addressed. She is the master at steering away from the subject. It's very impressive. She has me beat.

Having spent many frustrating hours being the recipient of these techniques, I thought I'd put some of them down on paper - with examples, either real or representative. This is a work in progress, so may change as I remember more. How many of these do you recognise. In yourself, or your SO?

1) Take your point and then make an extreme and preposterous example of it to shift the focus to the new version. This has two benefits: Firstly, it is much easier to argue against the extreme version, second, it avoids having to address the original point.
Example:
"I wish you wouldn't arrange nights out on a Friday night when we're supposed to be travelling to the weekend house. Can't you make it on another day?"
"You want me to stop seeing my friends. You never want me to go anywhere. You're not happy unless I'm in your sight."

2) Ignore the actual point of the sentence and latch on to a tangential point, or word in there. Argue that point. Again, shifting the focus away from the original point.
Example:
"Why did you lie to me about that thing the other day? It wasn't very loyal of you."
"Oh, loyal like a dog? I'll lick your hand when I come home. Loyalty is a word you use with dogs. I'm not your dog. Your dog doesn't mind if you don't feed it. She had no food in the bowl this morning."

3) Bring outsiders into it as unverified backup. Again, a double whammy here because you're now wondering how it is that she's discussing us with outsiders, yet refuses to discuss it with you. Takes you off at a nice tangent.
Example:
"I think most people would have been upset by what you said the other day."
"No, it's you. Most people wouldn't care. Jenny agrees as well.

4) Rarely let you finish a sentence. Butt in as soon as you start talking and inject some preferably random argument/complaint.
This has the double advantage that she doesn't have to listen to what you're saying and the randomness of the butt-in causes you to forget what you were trying to say in the first place. This technique is VERY effective.
Example:
"I think I should be allowed to...[Butt in here]"
"I asked you to phone the people about the roof. You didn't do it. How can I rely on you?"

5) Shift the focus of your concerns away from feelings to words and actons.
Example:
"I would like to feel that you do value our time together. You never say. If I ask, you won't tell me."
"OK. Give me the script of what you want me to say, and I'll read it back to you."

6 Make a fuss about the way the question/point is worded. Argue about the construction of the question/statement and thereby avoid answering it.
Example:
"That's a bit harsh, isn't it?"
"You've just answered your own question. What's the point in asking a question and answering it yourself?"

7 Answer a modified version of the question you ask. Outline the modified question, and then answer it.
Example:
"I had a great time out with you today. Did you enjoy it?"
"I enjoyed not being at work for a change, yes."

These techniques (and others that I'm probably forgetting right now) make it utterly impossible to have your say. I recognise them as they're being practised. I even point them out, but, of course, a judicial application of any of the above techniques makes it easy to avoid that point too.

Last edited by SaxonMan; 07-24-2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Added number seven
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

This is why I avoid buying a new car like the plague...it sounds like the techniques the salesmen have tried with me...I will drive my car into the ground before I go through it anytime soon!
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

In your examples, I'm noticing that most of your remarks are comments, not questions. What if you just ask a question that doesn't have a yes/no answer, or leave a remark only about how YOU feel?

1) When on Friday night can we leave for the weekend house?
2) Why did you lie to me about ______?
3) I was upset by what you said the other day.
4) "I think I should be allowed to..." (Butt in here) ---- walk away. Try again another time.
5) I value our time together. How do you feel?

I don't know, I'm just throwing some suggestions out there. It would frustrate me too, if I were in your shoes.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

^ Good point - especially about number one.
Although I have tried. Still would be better put that way though.

Germane to all this is the following: All questions are taken as interrogations, all statements are taken as attacks.

Ooh, you've just given me number six. I'd forgotten about that. Thank you. I'll update the original post.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

She sounds very combative in her replies. Is she like this with everyone or just you?
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leahdorus View Post
She sounds very combative in her replies. Is she like this with everyone or just you?
Me and her daughter. Sweet as anything to friends/strangers. She's worse with her daughter:
Daughter calls (ostensibly to find out when we're coming home, but, like many kids, will "beat about the bush"):

"What are you doing mum?"
"I'm eating pizza."
"When are you coming home?"
"Why are you asking?"
"Just wondering."
"Why are you asking? OK. I'm hanging up now. Bye". Click.
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

Saxon I commend you for typing out these situations and analyzing them, I think that's great. Leaves no room for guess work.

Some day I have a feeling you will meet a woman that is emotionally healthy and look back on this time in your life and wonder: "What the hell was I thinking?."
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

Thanks Martino. I think you're right (I hope so). I just wish I could click my fingers and reach that point now.

I'd been lulled into a false sense of security because we've had a good few weeks with no bust-ups. Of course, that was purely because I "behaved" and didn't broach any negative subjects.

It's very hard being stifled, so, inevitably, I broke a rule yesterday and brought up a subject from the "off the table" list. I got the full force of the above techniques (all delivered with vitriol) for my trouble.

Basically, the "off the table" list is very easy to maintain. It's anything negative, or that could be construed as negative, toward her, anybody she knows, doesn't know, or even a comment about a scene on the TV. Basically anything that's an opinion.

I can talk about gardening all day long.
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

When did you post this?

I'm wondering if my wife read this 8 weeks ago and thought it was a "how to" guide.
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSimpson99 View Post
I'm wondering if my wife read this 8 weeks ago and thought it was a "how to" guide.
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

so whats a list of your arguing tactics?
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

Damn.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

saxon, you made a humourous thread ! lol
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanca View Post
so whats a list of your arguing tactics?
I got nothing.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Art of Avoiding the Point

Was reminded of number seven. Added to original post.
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