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Old 04-03-2013, 01:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

I'm wondering how she came to the conclusion that kicking you out of the house would help her 'figure things out'? What things can't she figure out WITH YOU?

Red Flags are flying my friend. If she's wanting to be done with the marriage, she should be the one leaving the house, not you. What she's asked you to do is cruel. "I don't love you anymore, and I want you out of my sight. Leave me!" Who died and made her queen of the land?

Please don't leave your home. You put your foot down and say either we figure this out together, or we call it quits right now and get some papers drawn up. After 4 years of this treatment inflicted upon you, there's been plenty of time for her to figure it out. Now is the time for the decision, and she needs to be put on the spot to make it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

@Unbelievable -Thanks for all of the advice! I appreciate it....over the last 5 years I have done those things. I've been helpful around the house to the extreme. She CAN trust me to be here for her, but over the last 4 years, we've grown apart. I have met her needs to the best of my ability but like Her life has not been pleasurable and rewarding over the last 4 years. She often says "she doesn't know how to work on our marriage and relationships."(She comes from a bad broken home with Divorced parents, alcoholic dad and mom with mental problems)

Doing the laundry and other nice things for her doesn't make her attracted to me. Counseling - I don't know 100% if my wife is committed to this marriage. The counseling would be for her sake, to find out what is "blocking" her from her emotions to me. I think it's deeper than my job, the house, etc. You stated "Did you promise to love her only on the days she was lovable? Your duty as husband isn't contingent on her performance. Be the best husband and partner you know how to be." I tend to agree with you but I feel she looks at me as just a "good help around the house" rather than a husband. I'm not going to be a pushover, but will continue to love her and be a good husband. I'd love your thoughts again. Thanks. GH
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

@ A Bit Much - Thank you my friend! I needed to hear that. I agree with you. Why should I have to leave? She has made sacrifices (schooling, etc.) but so have I (housework, lack of intimacy, etc.) Her classes finishes in April and her job finishes in May. She mentioned that she needs to the summer to sort things out and figure out what she wants and what to do. But, I agree with you, why can't we try to work this out together? She will be off for the summer anyway(she's a teacher), Why do I need to leave the house? Counseling - I don't know 100% if my wife is committed to this marriage. The counseling would be together and then individually for her sake, to find out what is "blocking" her from her emotions to me. She might need medication. I think it's deeper than my job, the house, etc.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

@ tryingtobebetter - Thanks, you gave some solid advice. I know I can go either way (180 or nice guy)

I'm praying on this and trying to understand what to do. But, besides being supportive and being myself, is there anything I really can do? It's ultimately HER decision to work at the marriage or to step away. Any thoughts?

Also, I will ask her to take the 5 love languages test online. I think that would be revealing to me as to what she really needs.

Thanks so much!
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

It IS ultimately her decision to walk or not... but do not give up your ground until she makes the decision. Don't leave your house. Whatever she needs to figure out she can do with you there working together to do it. Any time a spouse asks another to leave, it doesn't bode well for the one who concedes to do so. You may be thinking you're helping her by giving her this space, but you wouldn't be. You would be doing the equivalent of waving a white flag, when that's NOT the position you want. She's going to have to give you more and a clear understanding of what she really wants. She may have decided that being single would suit her better, but she owes you an explanation for why she's drawing that conclusion. Right now you have no idea WHY she's been distant and checked out. She owes you an explanation.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

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Counseling - I don't know 100% if my wife is committed to this marriage. The counseling would be for her sake, to find out what is "blocking" her from her emotions to me.
There are usually two reasons for wives to fall out of love with their husbands. The first reason is that they're focusing on other men. The second reason is that their husbands have become less attractive. That usually means not enough alpha behaviors.

It may be something else, but my money is on one, or both, of those reasons.

And, if no other man is involved, don't expect your wife to be able to articulate her reasons for wanting to leave you. Most women truly believe the hype about just needing a husband that is more sensitive, helps more around the house, etc. But the harsh reality is that doing laundry is appreciated, but not attractive. And doing even more laundry will only result in more appreciation, and never any attraction.

Here is a good post from Dalrock on how he changed his behavior and his wife finally felt loved.
She felt unloved. | Dalrock

Quote:
I am still not sure about dropping the help. Yes, I agree I don't want to be a Nanny BUT, dropping everything I usually do (housework, laundry, etc.) will make things crazy. Maybe I drop some of it, and keep doing other things.
That is reasonable. You want to make sure that you each contribute to the marriage in comparable amounts. If she is spending 50 hours a week on her job and childcare/housework, but you're spending 80 hours a week on your job and domestic duties, then you're out of balance. So you should cut back.

Athol had a good post about hooker math.
Good Beta, Betaized, Butler and Hooker Math | Married Man Sex Life

And I wouldn't count her degree work as a family contribution. If she were planning to use the increased money to contribute to the family, then yes. However, she has stated that she plans to ditch you once she finishes her degree. So the degree is strictly for her benefit alone.

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Unbelievable (in another reply) stated Did you promise to love her only on the days she was lovable? Your duty as husband isn't contingent on her performance. Be the best husband and partner you know how to be. I tend to agree with him. I'm not going to be a pushover, but will continue to love her and be a good husband. I'd love your thoughts again. Thanks. GH
First, you can't "nice" a woman into being attracted to you. Over at the MMSL link I posted, Athol Kay uses two broad categories of behavior. Alpha behaviors are attractive. These are earning a good salary, being in shape, dressing well, being assertive, etc. Beta behaviors are comforting. These include helping around the house, being a steady provider, being a good father, supporting your wife in her endeavors, etc.

So, women like a balance. Beta behaviors can be vital to the success of a marriage, as long as you have that alpha edge. If you are too beta with too little alpha, then you are the nanny. This seems to be how your wife sees you. And it is impossible to fix a lack of alpha by ramping up your beta.

Now, if your marriage were going through a 4-week, or even a 4-month funk that promised to be temporary, then I would say to just love her more and power through it. But that's not your situation. Your marriage has been in a 4-year funk. And you wife has told you that she plans to move on without you when she has finished bettering herself.

So, starting four years ago, your wife's 5-year plan seems to have been to work hard, earn a degree, let you be the nanny and do the hard work on the domestic front while she was busy improving her earning potential, then ditch you and hook up with Mr. Plan A. That sounds like a great plan for her. But it's a lousy plan for you. And the way you deal with that is not to reinforce her view of you as Plan B. If she really wants to ditch you, then she can do her own damned laundry and make her own damned breakfast. And she can be the childcare for you when you're out with your friends doing fun and exciting things.

Good luck.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Need advice

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Originally Posted by phtlump View Post
^ this

mmsl
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Need advice

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phtlump
...

Go to married man sex life | how to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which i mean doing it like rabbits. to get more information on how to be sexy.

Good luck.

^ this

mmsl
^ this twice.

Buy the book.

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

You can get the ebook and read it today. In fact, I recommend you do just that, because you are in dire need of the advice in this book. (Amazon has a kindle e-reader for you PC, so you don't need to own a kindle to read their kindle books).

Amazon.com: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 eBook: Athol Kay: Kindle Store

THIS is the advice you were looking for when you started this thread. Take it--NOW!
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

I agree you can't "nice" a woman into being attracted to you. That's not the point. I don't feed my kids because I expect a reward. It's my job. I take care of my wife because that's what I promised to do. I'm a husband every day, not just on the days my wife is pleasant. If anyone examines their marriage in terms of how well their own expectations are being met, everybody's destined for divorce because sooner or later, we all suffer disappointment. When your partner isn't feeling it, that's not the time to pull back and prove their fears correct. It's time to get tough, carry more than your share, and weather the storm. Her "feelings" will come and go. She's a woman and she happens to be under a great deal of stress. Letting her decide when this thing is over is like letting an insane person dictate your life. She's not even capable of making a rational, intelligent life-altering choice at this point.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

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I take care of my wife because that's what I promised to do. I'm a husband every day, not just on the days my wife is pleasant.
Yes, but a marriage is still supposed to be a mutually beneficial arrangement. If you're posing a hypothetical about a wife having a bad day, then I absolutely agree that you just grin and bear it. Pick up the slack, and she'll do the same when you're having a bad day.

But the OP's marriage isn't like that. His wife is using him as support until she can leave him. And agreeing to let your wife use you like that isn't in the vows.

Quote:
If anyone examines their marriage in terms of how well their own expectations are being met, everybody's destined for divorce because sooner or later, we all suffer disappointment.
Again, if you're talking short term, then I agree. If you're talking long-term, I disagree. If you mean that most marriages are long-term disappointments, then you're saying that most marriages are win/lose arrangements. So you should just hope you're lucky enough to be the winner in your marriage, rather than the loser.

I think marriage should be mutually beneficial.

Quote:
When your partner isn't feeling it, that's not the time to pull back and prove their fears correct. It's time to get tough, carry more than your share, and weather the storm. Her "feelings" will come and go. She's a woman and she happens to be under a great deal of stress. Letting her decide when this thing is over is like letting an insane person dictate your life. She's not even capable of making a rational, intelligent life-altering choice at this point.
Again, I agree if this were a short-term issue. If his wife had PMS and yelled at him I wouldn't suggest pulling away from her. But this has gone on for YEARS. Marriage is not a suicide pact.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

Umm is she the only one with stress? You live in the same house, share a child, have to pay bills, no?

Have you had a chance to express how badly the loss of the job and house has hit your self esteam as a man and provider? Have you looked to her for support and validation? Don't do it. Lean on a friend or IC not her. She does not set your worth you do. I think you should be proud of getting the family through his crisis intact and supporting your wife in her career choice.

If so this may be the main problem. What do you think. This is unfair but she may have lost faith in your ability to care for the family because of the financial problems. She may now feel responsible for the financial success of the family and that is why she is stressing.

It all of this rings true, what do you do? Concentrate on getting your mojo back as a man. The financial downturn kicked our azzes not just you. It is no reflection on you. Easy for me to say but that's how you need to look at it and then forget the past and look forward. Plan and execute.

All you need is a plan for to get on firmer financial ground. A career with a future fur advancement. Go after your dream with confidence.

Your wife. It is possible that the marriage will not survive. Do all you can to get back on track but also prepared mentally to D. I think there is a possibility that she has a man in sight that she thinks has a better financial future than you. It does not hurt to investigate carefully.

Be the best man you can be, you will need that married or D. Look good and get out of the house. Pretend that you are dating and update the wardrobe and hairstyle.

Oh and it's not sex, please don't handle this like a problem with sex. It is much bigger. Solve the big problem and the sex should follow if it doesn't then the marriage is over in her mind no matter what she says.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

How splendid it is for her to tell you to leave because she has an issue.

If she needs time to get in touch with her inner child she can get an apartment.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

Expecting you to leave is just so wrong. Why should leave your home? Tell her you will not leave, if she needs time to think your presence should not stop her.

The fact that you even entertain leaving is telling. What have you done that you should lose the comfort of your own home? Let her go to meditate if that her idea its not yours. Besides, She sounds like a strong modern educated woman. I don't think she will get a fit of the vapors if her husband witnesses her contemplating.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Can you help me to get out of it?

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@ tryingtobebetter - Thanks, you gave some solid advice. I know I can go either way (180 or nice guy)

I'm praying on this and trying to understand what to do. But, besides being supportive and being myself, is there anything I really can do? It's ultimately HER decision to work at the marriage or to step away. Any thoughts?

Also, I will ask her to take the 5 love languages test online. I think that would be revealing to me as to what she really needs.

Thanks so much!
You are absolutely right that you cannot make her decision for her. I think you have had a lot of useful exposure on this website to ideas which may be helpful. It is a great site for that.

It is interesting that she says she does not know how to work at her marriage and that she comes from an unhappy home. If you came from a happier home you can say to her that you do know how to as a result of observing your parents. A key ingredient is perseverence.

If I were you, I think I would:

Make it clear you want your marriage to succeed. Saying this once very clearly should be enough.

Do not be needy - if you have to, you can live without her

Support her as before but be 'manly' about it

Read up for different ideas how to address the problem to work out which ones will work best for you

Take pride in what you have achieved. It is not your fault that the bankers wrecked the economy. There have been many innocent victims.

Good luck
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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@ Unbelievable - Thanks. You hit the nail on the head. We are on the same page. I agree with almost everything you said in the last post. ESPECIALLY when you said this -

"When your partner isn't feeling it, that's not the time to pull back and prove their fears correct. It's time to get tough, carry more than your share, and weather the storm. Her "feelings" will come and go. She's a woman and she happens to be under a great deal of stress. Letting her decide when this thing is over is like letting an insane person dictate your life. She's not even capable of making a rational, intelligent life-altering choice at this point."

So, true. But this has been 4 years, not 4 months. The truth is, I HAVE carried more than my share, I HAVE been there for her and supported her. I've sacrificed intimacy and picked up the slack around the house and in other ways. I hope and pray that after her classes are complete and her plate is clean, that we CAN talk and she can make a Rational, intelligent decision. We've been together for 10 years....I wonder if she can imagine her life w/o me as a husband? My question to you(and I appreciate your opinion) - How long do I carry this cross without affection, effort, attention, etc. from her? I've sacrificed a lot, and I need a wife...not just a friend. It's been over 4 years, not 4 months. "Rebuilding" intimacy, touch, financial security, etc. will take some time....how much time do I give this? I love her and need Love FROM her immediately. Thanks my friend. GH
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