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Men who aren't shallow please advise and anyone else who has an opinion

9K views 96 replies 15 participants last post by  desperado 
#1 ·
Originally Posted by jumper21
I've posted in the past, but I am that husband.
In my situation, there is a deep rooted issue that hinges on my wife that needs to change.

My issue started with her being over weight. After 6 years of our marriage and 2 kids, I finally told her that it is difficult for me to say it but I have an issue with her weight. Now, if I were told something like that, I would try to change it. If she would say, "what can I eat? How can I exercise? I am going to diet. And look good for you."
But instead, no effort has been put towards my wishes. To me, I feel like "I guess, I'm not worth it for her." or "She's so selfish."

I would have him just lay it all out on the table. If you want to know, be willing to change or be willing to find out. If it's not worth it for you to change, then at least you know.



MY RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE POST:
This is just infuriating. My husband just did the I love you but I am not in love with you. Well, he certainly was in love with me when I was his arm piece but after gaining 70 pounds with HIS child and becoming ill afterward I am still 200 pounds and our daughter just turned 9 years old, by the way, my father told me I could quit calling it "baby weight", hmmm wonder how I picked the same sort of abusive man? Anyway, I was playboy beautiful my whole life and I have had two husbands share the opinion that overwheight is sickening, unattractive, and non sexual. Well guess what? The first husband I was with I met when I was 19 yo and he thought going from 117 pounds to a healthy 130 was outrageous. My second husband told me during our first sexual encounter that "he liked a little butter on his potatoes but didn't like it slobbing over the side", I was 140 pounds, strong, shapely, and healthy. Now, I ask you men..........what if your wife was in a car accident and her face was permanently scarred? What then? No more sex, repulsivity? what is love? Love is an action not a feeling. Do you love your wife or do you want a woman who won't age? Do you want children? Well, grow up. I am almost positive that she knows she is overweight. I am sure she is traumatized and puts herself down enough without needing any extra help. If you are so visually inclined then do her a favor and leave. I hear there are still 18 year olds looking for immature men.
 
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#2 ·
um, is the weight issue a result of a medical condition or overeating/lack of excercise?

you sound defensive, 200 pounds is heavy. you seem to make excuses or appear to be trying to rationalize the weight issue away by the take it or leave it this is who i am approach.

i deal with a similar issue with my wifes hoarding, she just cannot see it for what it is and instead makes ridiculous excuses and actually tries to turn it onto me like its my fault. if she doesnt fix it soon i will be gone, maybe she will find some man that likes it.
 
#3 ·
I would like to start by thanking you for your response. In answer to your analysis, "yes" I am defensive. Defensive is to defend and when my spirity, soul, and core self is attacked and rejected I believe it is human nature to defend.

Yes, mine is medical however, this is not the issue. The question is, what if your wife had to have a mastectomy (a breast removed secondary to cancer) or her face was ruined in a terrible car accident? What if she lost a limb?

What is love? I understand that fat is ugly. TRUST ME, I KNOW I AM FAT WITHOUT THE MAN THAT IS SUPPOSED TO DEFEND MY HONOR TELLING ME or even more cowardly, not telling me.

I live with my fat, shame, hatred of myself far more than he does. He is not Brad Pitt but somehow when he takes off his clothes it is him I am with not the fact that his penis is a little thin, or he weighs 130 pounds and his hips protrude and he has chicken legs. I love him for who he is. I guess I made a foolish mistake expecting the same.

Most woman eat excessively because food is their best friend. Hmmm, sad. They are lonely. They are in need of adoration not ridicule or threats. I believe that we can communicate without throwing out barbs at one another. I wrote this post in anger, correct. I am deeply, deeply, wounded by this rejection. I am going to be 40 years old. I can't be arm candy forever.

Love is an action as in how you treat someone regardless of their humaness. Love is not a feeling. When a man states that he is not "in love with you anymore" translated that means "I am not attracted to you anymore" the more a woman hears that the more she eats. It is a vicious cycle.

I, myself have tried medication, medically managed weight loss programs, weight watchers, and as a last hope I actually had a lapband surgery.

We are here for such a short time. I just have a hard time understanding the cruelty. Why not leave your wife without permenately scarring her before you go?

Again, please know that fat does not equate with slob.
 
#4 ·
desperado: I am sorry that your husband says this to you. And you are correct in many ways. I wasn't small but I also wasn't big when I met my husband. After the birth of our daughter I did gain 60+ lbs. It was hard on me without his smart azz comments. I knew I gained weight, I knew I got more stretch marks. But hell, I am a woman who carried his child, he should be happy that our daughter was born happy and healthy. Instead it's the comments that hurt. Go sit on his lap and you get, **** fat azz you are heavy. Or how about you we both can't fit down the hall. The worst part, he isn't any smaller. He has gained more weight than I did. I did start to lose it. I go back and forth, gain - lose, gain - lose. But still the comments come but yet his fat azz hasn't lost anything. And you are also right, food is our best friend especially if we are upset and/or depressed. What do we do: EAT!! And eat everything in sight. Maybe if they would help us instead of bringing us down, realize that we can't be that small skinny person for the rest of our lives, and help us and love us the way we are, we would be able to help ourselves too.

Just my opinion.
 
#5 ·
There are plenty of men out there that do like healthy women. I use the term "healthy" because I wouldn't want to hear the things that Desperado and Alwaysalone described. Although I have never been terribly "healthy," and was even called "too skinny" by my ex-husband, I think it is just plain wrong and even cruel to place labels on anyone.

I am sorry that you have had to listen to such crap. I can't stand hypocracy, as I see it on a daily basis. Try not to let these "perfect people" get to you. In fact, maybe you should kick them to the curb and find someone who appreciates you.

(((HUGS)))

FZ1
 
#6 ·
WOW, now that is the kind of kindness and understanding that mature and people who have heart are able to give. I actually feel sorry for the man who is so dissatified with his wife's weight. Too bad, she had probably been there for him for years.
I thank you foolz1 and alwaysalone. Hmmm, didn't seem to be too fat when I was exchanging his airline tickets to first class as a surprise or my sister was paying for his braces (thank god she doesn't know that he told me that his worst nightmare was that I would end up looking like her as she is fat also). I kept checking back on the post to see if there were any human souls out there. I am re-affirmed.
 
#7 ·
Desperado, the people who are out there disrespecting others obviously have a low opinion and are insecure with themselves and therefore want to make others miserable, just because they are. It is likely an attempt to make themselves feel better about their own imperfections, as nobody, anywhere is perfect. It shouldn't matter about your weight or anything else, as you have clearly sacrificed a great deal when you had their children. They are being selfish and immature, to say the least.

I am truly sorry that you have been treated in this manner. It is just not fair and totally uncalled for.

I am wishing you the best!
 
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#14 ·
Thank you for your medical research in the name of love. I can tell you that there are many "left over" biologically driven responses to what was the reason for men and woman to find the mate that produced the strongest offspring. It is referred to as "Survival of the fittest" but you probably already knew that. Since the time that we quit having to reproduce for the species survival, men and woman have determined love is a stronger action to a monogomous relationship, as monogomy is not a natural choice when the species is at risk. If you want to play the biological natural selection card, the fact is that woman naturally gravitate towards men that can protect them and their "offspring" so I am not sure how you can make your argument using only the "male body logic" without any comment on how a male like yourself is chosen when clearly unable or unwilling to protect his woman unless she remains "in ratio". If you further your research I believe you will find that people's appearance changes as they age due to not being the strongest anymore to reproduce. So, does that mean that the male will just keep exchanging his older "out of ratio" wife for a younger "in ration" wife and continue to reproduce even though with age his sperm is less potent?
 
#8 ·
Atholk, I rarely react this way to anyone, but your statements are downright insensitive, inappropriate and unwarranted, however, I'm undoubtedly convinced that you believe that you are perfect. It is your opinion...have at it. :rolleyes:
 
#9 ·
We are all biologically designed to do a lot of things, that means something but not everything. Then comes our interaction with the environment which sharpens who we become and what we believe in over time. Should my wife become extremely over weight, or lose a breast to cancer or anything like that, no way I would leave. She's a great mother, great wife and a top student in school. I've also had friends that have trophy wives that are dumb as a box of rocks. Their beauty had become the only real thing they had going for them, and I thought how sad. Sure if I were her dating her as her husband did I would enjoy her beauty and her flesh but then I would have to talk to her. Stupid people are far more unattractive than ugly people to me. The mind is by far the most sexy.
 
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#11 ·
the comparisons you made to breast cancer and disfigurement due to accidents are not the same. weight is controlable, may take a medicinal approach but there are things you can do, one of them is finding someone who likes full figured women. gaining 70 pounds and keeping it for 9 years, i would expect my wife to repel me if i did that
 
#12 ·
Hmmmm, I have heard alot of "opinion" and alot of what some must consider to be "medical science", but this qoute shows a complete failure at understanding the analogy but an assuption (and we all know what that does) that all can lose weight out of free will. Believe me friend, no woman wants to be fat and if a small amount of research is done you will find that there are a multitude of medical, biological, and psychological reasons that some people cannot lose weight. Love is an action not a feeling. To love is to act toward others as you would want to be treated if in the same situation. You would think that all of your anger be directed at your own inadequacies vs. being a bully towards the woman you vowed to protect, honor, through better and worse. I am clear that we only are angry at others "issues" when we don't feel very good about ourselves.
 
#16 · (Edited)
"One option is to find a lower status man that your physical imperfections are acceptable to him."

"The other is to find a way to regain at least some of your former physical condition. You haven't stated your medical issue, so I'm not exactly sure how to advise here on that. Check with your doctor.", ATHOLK QUOTE


You are kidding right? Find a lower status man? Physical IMPERFECTIONS? WOW! somebody did a number on you. I "stand firm" that those who can judge others physical imperfections do not feel very good about themselves, are afraid of aging, or believe they are better than others.

When you state ways for me to "regain former physical condition" yet are unable to advise, it peaks my curiosity about where you obtained your bariatric medical degree?
 
#19 ·
Why are you so angry with those of us wanting respect for who we are and not what we look like. I never insinuated that the weight was my husbands doing or that the lack of weight loss makes him the problem.

I do find it rather offensive to determine what I am looking for in my posts. I am hoping for rational conversation not more barbs. I am quite able to take responsibility for my plight however, I did not carry this weight until after the birth of my daughter and my health deteriorated. One said that a mastectomy or accident is not a fair comparison yet failed to inquire what my dilema was. I have been very thin and beautiful to the point that every man from 15-80 would ask me to marry him. I was at a club at a young age (fake ID) and I always looked older) I had men dropping at my feet (I guess I was weight/hip ratio correct). I walked by a heavy not so asthetically beautiful woman and her boyfriend/husband enjoying themselves, he very affectionate towards her. I later walked by when she was alone and she said "you are so lucky to be so beautiful and have all of the men want you" my reply was "no, you are the lucky one. At least you know that your man loves you for you, I never know I am loved only lusted" I state my case. Women can't win thin or fat.
 
#18 ·
To all of the men and women out there who have replied with sane comments, I thank you. When or even if I do lose the weight it will be driven by the support and loving behavior of those who with all of their own IMPERFECTIONS can see others as fallable and human. Those who understand that after you impregnate a woman, get her offspring, and feel "fittest among men" that you may still want to have a conversation with her. Although, there is the slim chance that they may not want to have a conversation with you.
 
#24 ·
Desperado, I truly understand your position, although obviously superficial individuals do not. No matter what you look like or what you weigh, you and your husband took those same marriage vows. I highly doubt that your spouse is perfect, and I am certain that he has his own imperfections, as does every human being.

When someone has a problem, whatever it may be, they need positive reinforcement, not a slew of negativity. I have discovered that works much better than judgement and criticism. Compassion and empathy go a long way, and that is the reason I almost always choose to use that approach. A person's weight should not define that person, as no one that I know of enjoys being overweight.

Take care of YOU and shame on your critics.

(((HUGS)))

FZ1
 
#29 ·
Thank you so much. I love it when men comment on a womans weight or rights of her body when they cannot ever have the experience. I do believe that one should not ever, ever, comment on something they cannot or have not experienced. I will keep taking care and a lot of my motivation comes from your comments.

Blessings to you !
 
#25 ·
"The body logic behind this is that women of this body shape have the greatest success chances at successful pregnancy. "

And did you know that women who walk in the most sexy manner are the least fertile? So perhaps what attracts is not necessarily going to increase chances of a successful pregnancy, at least not right away.

I really think that going to a biological basis or an evolutionary basis denies the fact that we HAVE evolved. Men aren't hitting women over the head and taking them off to their caves. Men make decisions to marry and to commit and this is with the full knowledge that the woman they marry is going to change over time. Women know the same thing about their man.

My husband is I guess what some would say is overweight. Somehow I just don't see it.

But I do find myself more attracted to him when his beard is trimmed neatly.

So looks matter. However, I don't find myself unattracted to him when his beard is long and messy. The baseline is still that of attraction.

If he became really overweight, perhaps my baseline would drop. I don't know. It wouldn't mean I wouldn't love him or stay with him. But it really is nice to be attracted to your spouse. It feels good to WANT them in that way. It is easy, for one thing. When physical attraction drops or goes away, you'd have to put more effort in to want to have sex, for instance. Afterall, it is easier to be turned on by someone you're attracted to.

If we were all simply brains without bodies, I could see arguing that the body shouldn't matter. But it does. We are encased in bodies and we respond to what our senses deliver. That isn't shallow. It is simply acknowledging the truth.

All that said, it is not acceptable for a husband or a wife to make the overweight spouse feel bad about how they are at the moment. Encouraging them to lose weight and to get healthy would be a good thing because you'd obviously want to have a long and happy relationship with them and everyone knows that carrying too much weight invites a lot of other health-related problems.

Further though, I think trying to maintain a sane weight should be an individual's responsibility and trying to remain attractive to your spouse is a part of marriage. So there is responsibility on both sides.
 
#28 ·
desperado: After reading through all of this thread you appear like the crazy defensive lady who just attacks anyone and everyone who doesn't happen to agree with them.

For that I'm sure you'll attack me and call into question my mental capacities, my age, maturity, education background, etc just as you have everyone else.

However, you have appeared to be the one with a lack of maturity so far on this thread, as soon as ANYONE doesn't agree with you you go on the attack and question everything about that person and don't stick with the topic. I've seen you question people's age, maturity, intelligence, education, etc. You are going off the "deep end".

You have said one thing that I agree with, love is an action not an emotion, I actually like to say love is a choice, not an emotion. So we agree since a choice is an action.

However, for that same reason if something about your spouse that they can work on or fix, and they either choose not to or don't follow through with it, etc. You might just CHOOSE not to be loving to them anymore.

For instance, if your husband was a verbally abusive jack@$$, you would expect him to change that action or you would choose to stop loving him.

If your husband was completely emotionally disconnected from you and was just like a "room mate", you might want that to change or you might choose to stop being loving to him.

Well, sorry, but while women are emotional creatures, men are physical creatures (blanket statement and there are some exceptions). If a spouse gains a lot of weight and has the ability to lose it but chooses not to, then why blame their spouse for not liking the situation?

That's like blaming the wife of a man who completely stops helping her around the house.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I am moved by your response. No, I am not crazy, just hurt. I do believe that genetics, depression, medical problems, etc. leave losing weight either difficult or unatainable. With that said, my husband is disconnected and has been for years hence food became a friend. To all of those who are nasty in there response I do feel that a strong response is valid not crazy. My husband is so skiny the first time we where intimate and I touched his hips it literally scared me. He has a lot of other issues that I do not care to document. I do believe in my threads but I am also willing to take into consideration any comments left that are not mean and spiteful. I am a highly educated, professional, successfual woman who has built her own business while living with a "room mate" and raising a daughter with a cronic illness. I know struggle every day to comfort my daughter as my husband became verbally abusive towards her and I made him move out. I suppose that we are all wrong in our threads as weight is a very small part of our worlds of struggle to make it. It would be nice however, to have a man understand that for better or for worse is no joke and the words should not be spoken if there are stipulations. I promise you that I understand that I don't exercise enough but I can't due to cronic pain. I understand that my eating for emotional reasons is my responsibility and losing weight, and being attractive, and holding up my end of the bargain is my responsibility. It is sad that those responding to my threads in a spiteful manner are themselves obsessed with the weight issue as well. I guess we all have our opinions but those that would be repelled by his wife if she was heavy (fat) is a sad state of affairs. I do care and respect opinions other than mine if the debate is within the limits of respect. I also am defensive so I apologize to all whom I have been angry with. I do see my anger in my threads but anger is a secondary emotion in which there is always another feeling driving it, i.e. hurt, shame, defensiveness, etc. Thank you for your post. I will try to listen more and be "crazy" less.

BTW, I love how one Japanese man said about love, "my wife is my air and I cannot breathe without air"
 
#35 ·
You stated that men cannot experience something and therefore had no right to comment on it, but you didn't say what it was. If it is child birth, sure I guess. But if it is keeping weight on after gaining it FOR WHATEVER REASON, men can certainly understand and experience that.

Gotta say, I also find it odd that you quote yourself and comment on what you've written.
 
#37 ·
Desparado, I guess I am not quite as critical, judgemental and shallow as some people are. You and your husband took wedding vows, which traditionally include notions of affection such as love, honor, comfort, keep, faithfulness, and unconditionality such as, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, and permanence, i.e., as long as we both shall live, until death do us part. I have never heard one that includes "this marriage vow becomes null and void should you gain weight", although I'm sure some probably exist.

People obviously do not enjoy being overweight. If they did, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc., etc., would not be getting wealthier and wealthier, while overweight people are trying almost anything, in hopes that it will help with their weight issues. Being overweight isn't healthy, but neither are a lot of other things that create addictions and medical conditions that cause weight and health problems.

Being or becoming overweight is at epidemic proportions, especially in the United States. Some of this is accredited to health issues, others conclude that some people choose to overeat, just as other people choose to drink, gamble and use drugs, etc. Overeating can be an addiction, just as is substance abuse. Virtually anything can become addictive.

About two-thirds of adults in the United States are overweight, and almost one-third are obese, according to data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2001 to 2004. This fact sheet presents statistics on the prevalence of overweight and obesity in the United States, as well as the health risks, mortality rates, and economic costs associated with these conditions. To understand these statistics, it is necessary to know how overweight and obesity are defined and measured, something this publication addresses. This fact sheet also explains why statistics from different sources may not match. ~ U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

People have addictions for numerous reasons. This should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic.

People who actually believe that they could go up to any drunk, crack addict or any other kind of addict and give them their "two cents" and they would automatically give up their addiction, just because they criticized them, is simply...naive, uneducated in health issues and possibly out of touch with reality.

In a nutshell, "don't throw stones, if you live in a glass house."
 
#38 ·
Desparado, I guess I am not quite as critical, judgemental and shallow as some people are. You and your husband took wedding vows, which traditionally include notions of affection such as love, honor, comfort, keep, faithfulness, and unconditionality such as, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, and permanence, i.e., as long as we both shall live, until death do us part. I have never heard one that includes "this marriage vow becomes null and void should you gain weight", although I'm sure some probably exist.
I already said it above, but "to love and to cherish" is in the vows, and cherish is synonymous with respect. Maybe the man doesn't feel respected if his spouse becomes obese? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, just saying that you want to use wedding vows and twist them, so can I. Especially since "in sickness and in health" is referring to sicknesses that aren't your fault like diseases, not obesity that, whether you want to label it an "addiction" or not, is still a choice for 99% of obese people.

People obviously do not enjoy being overweight. If they did, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc., etc., would not be getting wealthier and wealthier, while overweight people are trying almost anything, in hopes that it will help with their weight issues. Being overweight isn't healthy, but neither are a lot of other things that create addictions and medical conditions that cause weight and health problems.
I don't think anyone has said that people enjoy being overweight. You say that overweight people "are trying almost anything", I say not true for most. If they were trying "almost anything" then they would be working out more and eating less. This isn't some Einstein level math or physics problem to solve that is hard to figure out. Eat less, work out more. Now, the hard part is the will power to actually DO those two things.

Being or becoming overweight is at epidemic proportions, especially in the United States. Some of this is accredited to health issues, others conclude that some people choose to overeat, just as other people choose to drink, gamble and use drugs, etc. Overeating can be an addiction, just as is substance abuse. Virtually anything can become addictive.
I can buy overeating as an addiction, I'm not 100% sold on it, but can buy into the idea. However, that doesn't mean it still isn't a choice. An alcoholic isn't forced to drink, they are still making a conscience decision. If it was an "addiction" or a genetic thing, then why haven't humans always been as obese as they are now? Why is it so much more prevalent in America vs other nations? I think its because we choose to spend our abundant resources on food instead of getting out and exersise more. American's wouldn't be any more "genetically" predisposed to obesity than any other race of people but yet our obesity rates are MUCH higher than anywhere else. Why? because we choose to eat fast food all the time, not because we are addicted to eating.

People have addictions for numerous reasons. This should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic.

People who actually believe that they could go up to any drunk, crack addict or any other kind of addict and give them their "two cents" and they would automatically give up their addiction, just because they criticized them, is simply...naive, uneducated in health issues and possibly out of touch with reality.

In a nutshell, "don't throw stones, if you live in a glass house."

1. Show me the "addicted to food" gene before you say "this should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic." It still is a choice even if you are addicted, the difference is will power. My uncle was an alcoholic but stayed dry for the last 15 years of his life. He was addicted but he made the choice to never drink again, so please don't try to say "well they have no choice, they have to drink/do drugs/eat too much" because it makes you look not as smart as you think you are.

2. I think you are naive to believe that someone who is addicted to something has no choice. I've been addicted to online gaming in the past, I broke that addiction. Many alcoholics break their addiction and stop drinking, same with drug addicts. I can go on. Is it easy? No, but it is MOST CERTAINLY a choice.
 
#39 ·
Brighterlight, great post. I'm going to share your ideas with my husband because he is where you were... though as I said in my previous post, I just don't see him as overweight. I mean, I know he is and I can see him struggle with his size, but most of the time, it just doesn't register with me. It is weird. And maybe I'm part of the reason he doesn't do anything about it. He doesn't need to to please me.

I guess that's something else to think about. Maybe I'm an enabler. Maybe I should care more about his weight and help him do something about it. I know he'd feel better about himself and he'd feel better in general.
 
#40 ·
Atholk is missing the point. Yes, there is a male preference for a type of shape with a hip-to-waist ratio, blah, blah, blah. That does not mean everything else is UNATTRACTIVE!! It's a preference! I like blue; does that mean I hate green, pink, and yellow? Nope, I might like them a lot, too, just not as much as blue if I am given a choice. I won't be unhappy with yellow!

And wikipedia is not considered a scholarly resource. I've seen the studies on reputable sites; use those if you want to cite something!!
 
#41 · (Edited)
I don't think anyone has said that people enjoy being overweight. You say that overweight people "are trying almost anything", I say not true for most. If they were trying "almost anything" then they would be working out more and eating less. This isn't some Einstein level math or physics problem to solve that is hard to figure out. Eat less, work out more. Now, the hard part is the will power to actually DO those two things.
I know plenty of people that have truly tried several methods, even surgically, to lose weight, but, for one reason or another, have been unsuccessful, and I also realize that eating less and exercise is very beneficial to good health. (do you actually believe that an addiction is simply a "willpower" issue, though?)

I can buy overeating as an addiction, I'm not 100% sold on it, but can buy into the idea. However, that doesn't mean it still isn't a choice. An alcoholic isn't forced to drink, they are still making a conscience decision. If it was an "addiction" or a genetic thing, then why haven't humans always been as obese as they are now? Why is it so much more prevalent in America vs other nations? I think its because we choose to spend our abundant resources on food instead of getting out and exersise more. American's wouldn't be any more "genetically" predisposed to obesity than any other race of people but yet our obesity rates are MUCH higher than anywhere else. Why? because we choose to eat fast food all the time, not because we are addicted to eating.
No one in the US, that I am aware of, is "forced" to eat fast food, however, it seems that it is the "easiest and quickest" alternative to cooking at home. (BTW, I cook homemade food, almost every day. (And no, I am not Martha Stewart ;))

If addictions were so easy to "break," why do you believe there are SO many '"interventions" and support groups; not to mention, recovery clinics out there?

1. Show me the "addicted to food" gene before you say "this should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic." It still is a choice even if you are addicted, the difference is will power. My uncle was an alcoholic but stayed dry for the last 15 years of his life. He was addicted but he made the choice to never drink again, so please don't try to say "well they have no choice, they have to drink/do drugs/eat too much" because it makes you look not as smart as you think you are.
I never proclaimed to be "as smart as I think I am." Thankfully, I fully realize that I am human, therefore, I try never to assume anything.
2. I think you are naive to believe that someone who is addicted to something has no choice. I've been addicted to online gaming in the past, I broke that addiction. Many alcoholics break their addiction and stop drinking, same with drug addicts. I can go on. Is it easy? No, but it is MOST CERTAINLY a choice.
I never stated that they have no choice, and I never said there was a specified gene for this, but, being overweight, certainly is a reality though, in many homes, with no social or economic boundaries.
 
#42 ·
I know plenty of people that have truly tried several methods, even surgically, to lose weight, but, for one reason or another, have been unsuccessful, and I also realize that eating less and exercise is very beneficial to good health. (do you actually believe that an addiction is simply a "willpower" issue, though?)
1. I'm sorry, but if they still haven't lost "the weight", then they haven't "tried everything" unless you happen to know a crap load of people who happen to fall into the 1% of obese humans that is medical. They have truly not tried eating healthy or exercising enough, or the weight would have fallen off. Its not that difficult of an equation to figure out, burn more calories than you eat, and you lose weight.

2. Yes, I believe an addiction is a willpower issue. If it was not then NO ONE would EVER be able to kick an addiction. The people who don't kick the addiction simply lack the willpower. Like I said, the will power part of these things is the toughest thing by far to overcome. The will power to start exercising and eating right is 100 times harder than actually doing it and actually losing the weight.


If addictions were so easy to "break," why do you believe there are SO many '"interventions" and support groups; not to mention, recovery clinics out there?
Because people lack the will power. If it wasn't a will power/choice issue and no one has a choice then no one in the history of addictions would have ever gotten over the addiction. You have to see the logic in that right?

I never stated that they have no choice, and I never said there was a specified gene for this,
If you say they have a choice, then you agree with me that its just a matter of having the will power to make that choice...glad I could convince you.

You did say it was genetic.
 
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#49 ·
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
I would like to see an alcoholic succeed if someone where to tell him/her that they were to have two fingers of scotch at 9am, a light beer for lunch, and two fingers at dinner with small sips of wine in between. Alcoholism is proven to have genetic precursors and recovery is about support and now medications not WILL POWER or WHITE KNUCKLING IT!
 
#43 ·
Are you happy with the way you look?

I read the whole thread. Lot of anger and resentment - but I can't shake the notion that a good portion of the anger and resentment is with yourself.

My 2 cents is that your insecurity, discomfort - call it what you will, isn't about being fat, it's about being accepted.

You point out the following: You were Playboy hot, you are intelligent, you are an accomplished, successful woman - but none of those things has won you the unconditional love (or acceptance) that you eloquently describe.

You outline that despite all of those things, regardless of how attractive you were or how successful you became, it was never good enough for the ex-husband, current husband etc.
That takes it's toll on one's self-perception. So what about you? Do you honestly accept yourself or are you trying to meet some intangible expectation for yourself or others?

For the record, I am pretty shallow ...
 
#50 ·
Thank you for the continued barbs, always helpful. You do not know anything about me so to assume that I feel the need to be accepted is possibly a projection? You see, the kind people of the thread do accept me and the others, well, honestly, do you think I care?
 
#44 ·
Atholk, I have read many of your posts, and I am surprised by how much your words reasonate with me. I actually ought to say "reasonate" and not resonate, because your thoughts are well arrived at, and even on occasion cited. It's a nice change in a forum so flooded with "opinion".
Keep it up Atholk. Oh, and I'm sorry to read that you're so "shallow" and a "meanie" to boot, but on the brighter side at least you're not "arrogant" like I am. I guess we all have to be "something", because we can't possibly be right. Here's to killing the messenger. CHEERS.
 
#63 · (Edited)
Atholk, I have read many of your posts, and I am surprised by how much your words reasonate with me. I actually ought to say "reasonate" and not resonate, because your thoughts are well arrived at, and even on occasion cited. It's a nice change in a forum so flooded with "opinion".
Keep it up Atholk. Oh, and I'm sorry to read that you're so "shallow" and a "meanie" to boot, but on the brighter side at least you're not "arrogant" like I am. I guess we all have to be "something", because we can't possibly be right. Here's to killing the messenger. CHEERS.
I don't believe anyone has come close to "killing the messenger" here. I did say "shallow," but that is just my opinion. I did not, however, call anyone a "meany" or "arrogant."

I am confused as to why you are so against opinions, as this board is basically set up for opinions. Everyone, at least, here in the United States, is entitled to their own opinion. (some should never be voiced, though ;)) If you are seeking second opinions, I am sure anyone could very likely find a professional someone, somewhere, who agrees with them, on almost any topic known to mankind.

In order to find fact, you would need to go elsewhere, such as a scientific board/web site or even back to med school. There are also, several links to resources here on "Talk About Marriage." :scratchhead:
 
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