General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
On the 28th of this month my wife and I will have been married 45 years. Unfortunately as we approach "our day" it will be as two individuals instead of two blended together as one.
We have not been close in many ways, especially physically, for years. Yet we still talk about day to day events, our children, our good and bad days, and some feelings. But nothing physical except a light kiss, no other body parts touching at the time. I have given hugs from time to time but they are not returned and I feel like I am trying to hug a 12 year old teenage boy in front of his friends.
Recently one evening when my wife and I both went to bed at the same time, which is rare (she stays up very late), I just wanted to be close to her, to touch her but not in a way to lead to a sexual encounter. I was close enough to her, she was on her back, I on my side and I put my arm across her, below her breasts and above her stomach. And my face was buried in the side of her face/ear area. After a few minutes she said "your arm is heavy." So I took my arm back. Then a few minutes later, she said "you are snoring in my ear." I did not realize I had started to go to sleep but maybe I did.
I don't know how to take her comments. The safest way is to take them at face value. But I am not a big guy, i.e. my arm is not that big but my wife is petite. Since for all these years she does not make any approach to me in any physical way, like a bit more than a peck of a kiss, or a hug, whatever, it is easy to take her comments to mean "stay away."
Perhaps some discussion about hugging and other signs of affection, could be she is holding out for what SHE wants or resentful she is not getting love and affection as she wants it.
Not everyone is the same. You might want to read that book about the langauges of love and try a new approach that she will appriciate.
You definitely need to have a conversation. Your situation clearly indicates that the emotional intimacy is gone in your relationship but there's nothing that says, if both parties are still plugged in, that you can't get it back.
My husband and I lead separate lives during the week (he only comes home on weekends) and sometimes things get distant between us and it feels awkward to have him home. That's when it's time to talk. It's amazing how a simple conversation can make a world of difference. :-)
Just tell her that you feel the two of you are not connecting and that bothers you. Tell her you would like to be closer to her as you're missing the loving relationship you once had. Sometimes it's a bit of a wake up call as the disconnect may have been going on so long that she really didn't even notice.
Bring her flowers one day and tell her you miss her. That's a nice icebreaker. :-)
Thanks for your comments. I agree that if we both are on the same page and want to go in the same direction, it is workable. And I would like to talk about this but it is risky. I am afraid that she is feeling that I am trying to be physically intimate or sexual with her and she will say, ‘it just takes time,’ and that will be all she will say. If I return with a comment, it is almost like I am pushing her so I will not say anything else. I wish I really knew what her true wishes are, or what she does and does not want, and I will accommodate, i.e. if she would be totally open and say she is just not interested in being physically close, then I will honor that. I did bring her flowers ‘just because’ about 3 weeks ago and she seemed to appreciate what I did. I wanted to bring her tulips like I did when we lived in Germany-I could get 5 tulips for 50 cents back then. I have told her how I realize that our lives have been stressed out over the last 4+ years due to family matters. But these family matters will be coming to an end in March and I have told her that I look forward to that time to spend with her and having our lives back again. She is just not one to show outward personal expressions like when I gave her the flowers. A small hug would have been nice but it was not offered. But I gave the flowers because I wanted to do so, not because I was trying to get something in return. I think I just have to continue showing my love for her from a distance, lower my expectations and be patient. But it’s hard. Again, if I only knew what she is thinking, it would be easier either to wait or if she has no interest, then we can just be mutual friends. I want to add a bit more. One thing she dreads doing is grocery shopping. Because she is recovering (doing very well) from hip replacement, I told her that I will do the grocery shopping from now own (not just until she is fully recovered but forever) except when she needs to buy special items, etc. I will organize the task on my computer and minimize the impact on me. I have also taken over washing my own clothes. I am just trying to make her life a bit more enjoyable and I am honestly doing this because I want to and not expecting anything in return. The satisfaction of her not having to dread doing the shopping is enough for me. Maybe after the family matter has ended and several months have passed, then I may approach her more directly if our relationship has not changed.
I had that problem too. Even a small touch on the wrist would translate into me wanting sex from him. Just keep on with the affection and don't expect anything in return for a while. It sounds like crap, i know. Don't get angry. Just hug her. Smile at her, then back off. Thing with mine was that he simply didn't want sex, he saw any affection as a start towards sex, and he cut it off as soon as it happened. I mean, for god's sake, sometimes even looking in his eyes for more than 1 second would be weird for him. Just as you described. 'too warm' 'too heavy''too cold' 'too tired' ' too ....insert excuse here'. So i just did that. Tried to explain...without talking at all, by my gestures and behaviour, that I don't expect affection to lead to sex. That i sometimes really don't want that affection to lead to sex. Talking could scare her off..maybe. So by doing this you don't really have anything to loose. And if this doesn't work, you still have the talking option .
It is obvious why your wife does not want sex with you: You are so timid it hurts. Read this, and let me know if you tick any of the boxes: Sexless Marriage?
she may have also been having an affair for many years, but trust me, that is secondary to your main issue which is complete shoe shuffling subservience - it is a huge turn off to her. I get the picture that whenever there has been a decision to make, you have always backed down and acquiesced to her. This has robbed you of masculinity in her eyes. By choosing to keep the peace, you have lost your balls. Not sexy.
I did read your article Sexless Marriage? There were a number of areas that hit home-between the eyes. It is also an article that needs to be read and reread to benefit the most. This is not saying it is difficult reading but to let what you have written to soak in. I believe you are right on by saying she has lost her confidence in me as a man but I am not sure that it is because I have backed down and acquiesced to her. She has acquiesced more to me I think which has ended up with the same affect, i.e. she has acquiesced to my decisions which lack good judgment and caused us lots of problems especially in the area of finances. Consequently her confidence in me and respect for me has plummeted over the years. And in trying to be open and admitting my failures, these actions are probably a turn off to her because I just reinforce by my own words what she knows already. Overall I believe your article is correct.
My wife is from Germany and was 5 years old when she and her mother had to suddenly leave their home with only what they were wearing and what they could carry in a small cart and walk toward the west to stay ahead of the Russians. For about two years they were on the road until they finally met up with her father, a POW in a British camp. She went through some difficult times. Then as a young adult she was date raped. So these for sure have some impact on how she feels and thinks now even if she does not realize it.
You mention in your article about some good news to the smart husband, i.e. “if he realizes it is just him she has lost interest in, he can do things all by himself to become more attractive in her eyes. If she fancied him in the past, there is every chance he can regain that position in her affections. All he needs are a few skills.” Our first 15+ years of marriage were great sexually so based on your words, there is possibly still hope?
As far as her having an affair, it would not surprise me when I know she has not had sex with me since 1997, but I have not seen any signs indicating she has. She did make several trips alone to Germany while her mother was still living and I have wondered if old friends may have come around.
Our first 15+ years of marriage were great sexually so based on your words, there is possibly still hope?
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she has not had sex with me since 1997
You both must be getting on in age a bit so time is against you. Also if you have not been intimate for 12 years, it does not sound like she cares much about you.
The biggest thing you have against you, is that you stayed with her for 12 years even though she rejected you. This has allowed her displeasure with you to crystallise. It also shows her how little back bone you have. On top of that, the whole tone of your initial post is one of bowing and scraping:
Quote:
Originally Posted by =FromNeptune
And I would like to talk about this but it is risky. I am afraid that she is feeling that I am trying to be physically intimate or sexual with her and she will say, ‘it just takes time,’ and that will be all she will say. If I return with a comment, it is almost like I am pushing her so I will not say anything else. I wish I really knew what her true wishes are, or what she does and does not want, and I will accommodate, i.e. if she would be totally open and say she is just not interested in being physically close, then I will honor that.
I have highlited a few words that show you are her prisoner. In the final analysis you are your own prisoner.
We we get married, we promise to "forsake all others" on the basis that our needs will be met. She has broken the contract. You walk on eggshells for no reason. You won't take risks. None of this is very sexy.
Bottom line: If you had it in you to leave her, it might just make her contemplate what she is doing. All you have ever done is kept the peace and maintained the status quo. You do not challenge her in any way. You do not challenge yourself. Read your first two posts again. Your whole solution is encoded therein.
I feel for you, but you're going to have to wake up
You write tough words – in keeping with what you say, I believe the bottom line is there is nothing about me that stirs her up, that causes her to be drawn to me. I am drawn to her emotionally, mentally and physically. Unfortunately (another ‘no backbone word?) she does not have a profession to support herself and is totally dependent on me for finances (and we don’t have bundles of money) to putting gasoline in her car. Leaving her without any support would be hard. Plus we are very close to our grown children and grandchildren who live near us. If I were to leave, I am now doubting and questioning whether any woman would have any interest in me or that I don’t have the characteristics that women are drawn to. I have never pursued another woman and don't know this is the time to begin. So what is the good of leaving? If she would want to leave, she is an adult and can do so whenever she so desires. We are both in very good health and do not look our age. I am currently taking a tough fitness program by a professional program. Some of the others in the program guess my age to be in the 50s. My wife and I took dancing lessons last year so we could dance at our daughter’s wedding and we both enjoyed it. We both took the lessons to learn the dances but my wife made it clear that she does not go to the dance lessons (I forget her exact words) in order to be or feel romantic.
After 12 years of no sex, what would you have me do, humour you? Dude, aren't you angry?
Unless you are ready (at last) to grab life by the horns, you are doomed to a life of celibacy. Is sex low on your list?
You could at least make some waves while you're thinking it over. You give her everything on a plate. In your position, I would get my own bedroom for starters. She clearly gets a little tiny bit of security out of sleeping in your bed. So pulling this rug away from her might make an interesting experiment. With women, it's seldom any good asking them a direct question. You have to set up the experiment just right to yeild the information you seek.
Angry? Guess I have not gotten to that level yet but maybe about time. These years have been filled more with frustration and depression. Due to some other family matters involving court appearances, etc. my increase in weight, not being able to run regularly (one of my top two hobbies) these years have seen lots of stress and with no running or sex for relief, it is tough. Sex is high on my list if the relationship is first mutually healthy and good.
My wife is an attractive woman for her age, petite and slim. A nurse recently told my wife that she reminded her of Barbara Eden from ‘I dream of Jeannie.’ That was a nice compliment and true. When she is with a group of people at a dinner or party, etc. she loosens up, likes to laugh, talks much more than at home, and with a bit of alcohol can be even more fun. Alone with me, she seems bored and probably is.
Your suggestion would result in her asking me why I am sleeping in the other bed so I would need some kind of response. I enjoyed the dance lessons a whole lot except when dancing with my wife because she always tried to lead. I got fairly good and the instructor said she enjoyed dancing with me because I had a natural and strong lead. So I have thought about taking lessons on my own for the purpose of really learning the dances so well that if my wife and I were to take lessons again or go dancing (which is not very likely), I would dance more comfortably with other women. This probably would not send the same message but if I am good enough and it appears that I am really having fun dancing and at ease with other women at the same time, I believe she would notice.
We both took the lessons to learn the dances but my wife made it clear that she does not go to the dance lessons (I forget her exact words) in order to be or feel romantic.
Dude, she hates your guts and is only staying with you as a meal ticket. If you do decide to do anything, stand your ground. It's interesting that you mention her always wanting to lead in the dance. It's about time you "led" in the dance of your marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromNeptune
but if I am good enough and it appears that I am really having fun dancing and at ease with other women at the same time, I believe she would notice.
Take up the dancing and go for it. Don't ask her permission, just do it.
Your suggestion would result in her asking me why I am sleeping in the other bed so I would need some kind of response.
You just don't get it do you?
You don't need her permission. A man makes a decision and takes his actions. You inform her. You don't ask. And if she is interested to know why, you tell her the whole truth without holding back. Don't let her talk you out of it. If she wants you, she can woo you back.
However, I would be surprised if you ever get this bold.
A hint "Stay away" or my incorrect assumption
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