General Relationship DiscussionAlthough anyone can post anywhere on Talk About Marriage, this section is for people interested in general relationship and marriage advice.
Let me know what you guys think about my current situation. In September, I had a feeling that things were not right between my wife and I, and had suspected that she may have been in the beginning stages of an affair. I had confronted her about it since I uncovered a long phone call with a man that we knew, but she said I was paraniod, controlling, and wanted a seperation, she said she couldnt live this way anymore. (She had had a one night stand 7 years ago that made me feel a bit paranoid over the years.) Of course, I took the blame, and felt terrible, thinking that I was the cause of the seperation, and was devastated about it.
Later that week, I had uncovered some flirty emails between the two of them, which indeed confirmed my suspicions. She told me that it was strictly platonic, but I still had a problem with it. And, on top of that, for a month after all of this happened, she would blatantly leave and go to her "friends" house, with no regard whatsoever towards my feelings. She would stay overnight there. It was very painful, although she claims that it was not physical at all.
She wanted to get a divorce, and we filed papers shortly after. She wanted nothing from me. No maintenance, no child support (we have 3 kids) since she said she was the one who wants the divorce. I make over $100K per year, and she works part time and makes $15K. She says she can make it financially with her one bedroom apartment and having no bills to pay. (I agreed to pay her car off, and to pay her car insurance for a year). I even paid for her apartment to give her what she wanted, her independence. Also, during this time, she continued to want to be intimate with me, which we have been, for that is a part of our relationship that was always very strong and satisfying.
We have been going to counseling, both individually and seprate, and she is adamant that she no longer wants the marriage to continue, however she wants to work on the issues between us so we can be "friends" and co parent the kids. The confusing part for me is this. She is still at the house often. We are remodeling things at the house and she has much input in regards to the decisions we are making. (Tile color, paint color, styles of decor, etc.) She has also been making little comments about the future, like "I cant wait until our bathroom is done, its going to look so nice." And "I bought a futon couch, which is good because we can always use a futon." She also has been staying overnight every Saturday, been spending almost all of Sunday with me and the kids, and comes over after work to help with the kids, make dinner, etc. It seems like she has the best of both worlds. And her vibe is that she just wants her independence for a while, and that she will eventually come back. I asked her last night if this was the case, and she said no. She does not think her feelings for me with change, she only wants to be friends.
Peple are tellng me to completely cut her off. Be cordial, but cut her off from the house and its creature comforts. Limit my contact with her. She wanted out, then give her what she wants. She can see the kids whenever she desires (she is a good mother) but she will have to pick them up and take them to her apartment. She cannot continue to act like the house we lived in together is still hers, she cant come and go as she pleases. I know a few paragraphs cannot give the whole spectrum of things, but my question is for anyone who may have been in a similar situation. If I let her go, would it completely ruin any attempt at a reconciliation, or would it possibly show her what she is missing, which would make her come back. Or, am I being completely simplistic and blind? Thoughts?
My god sir, exit internet get a lawyer iron clad the agreement and be done with it.
She has her backdoor covered, via her mind or friend.
You are on the outs, and having been the victim 7 yrs ago.
This is an example of the expression "once a cheater laways a cheater".
Now get to the lawyer today, have this sewn up fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirsh2000
Hello all...
Let me know what you guys think about my current situation. In September, I had a feeling that things were not right between my wife and I, and had suspected that she may have been in the beginning stages of an affair. I had confronted her about it since I uncovered a long phone call with a man that we knew, but she said I was paraniod, controlling, and wanted a seperation, she said she couldnt live this way anymore. (She had had a one night stand 7 years ago that made me feel a bit paranoid over the years.) Of course, I took the blame, and felt terrible, thinking that I was the cause of the seperation, and was devastated about it.
Later that week, I had uncovered some flirty emails between the two of them, which indeed confirmed my suspicions. She told me that it was strictly platonic, but I still had a problem with it. And, on top of that, for a month after all of this happened, she would blatantly leave and go to her "friends" house, with no regard whatsoever towards my feelings. She would stay overnight there. It was very painful, although she claims that it was not physical at all.
She wanted to get a divorce, and we filed papers shortly after. She wanted nothing from me. No maintenance, no child support (we have 3 kids) since she said she was the one who wants the divorce. I make over $100K per year, and she works part time and makes $15K. She says she can make it financially with her one bedroom apartment and having no bills to pay. (I agreed to pay her car off, and to pay her car insurance for a year). I even paid for her apartment to give her what she wanted, her independence. Also, during this time, she continued to want to be intimate with me, which we have been, for that is a part of our relationship that was always very strong and satisfying.
We have been going to counseling, both individually and seprate, and she is adamant that she no longer wants the marriage to continue, however she wants to work on the issues between us so we can be "friends" and co parent the kids. The confusing part for me is this. She is still at the house often. We are remodeling things at the house and she has much input in regards to the decisions we are making. (Tile color, paint color, styles of decor, etc.) She has also been making little comments about the future, like "I cant wait until our bathroom is done, its going to look so nice." And "I bought a futon couch, which is good because we can always use a futon." She also has been staying overnight every Saturday, been spending almost all of Sunday with me and the kids, and comes over after work to help with the kids, make dinner, etc. It seems like she has the best of both worlds. And her vibe is that she just wants her independence for a while, and that she will eventually come back. I asked her last night if this was the case, and she said no. She does not think her feelings for me with change, she only wants to be friends.
Peple are tellng me to completely cut her off. Be cordial, but cut her off from the house and its creature comforts. Limit my contact with her. She wanted out, then give her what she wants. She can see the kids whenever she desires (she is a good mother) but she will have to pick them up and take them to her apartment. She cannot continue to act like the house we lived in together is still hers, she cant come and go as she pleases. I know a few paragraphs cannot give the whole spectrum of things, but my question is for anyone who may have been in a similar situation. If I let her go, would it completely ruin any attempt at a reconciliation, or would it possibly show her what she is missing, which would make her come back. Or, am I being completely simplistic and blind? Thoughts?
I have a feeling should you start to date or find someone else, she may NOT adjust well to it as that may not be in her definition of friendship or co-parenting.
Personally if my spouse cheated on me, I would not want to be their friend because I like to be able to trust my friends.
It might be a good idea to limit her hanging out at your place as it will be easier for you as well as healthier for you on so many levels.
It will also allow you to keep a safe distance from her
which it sounds like you may need to do.
She sounds very, very immature.
I should just type up a post for these types of threads so I can just copy paste it. It's like a broken record with these ones.
Squirsh, her behavior is text book with a cheater spouse. Of course their not physical. Why the heck else would she tell you otherwise? Think about it, she is STAYING the night at her male friends house, who she also has flirted with on emails that you ARE aware of, had a lengthy phone convo, and probably has numerous other forms of communications with the OM. Let me spell it out as simple as possible. She is cheating on you once again!
At one time I sat and defended my ex and her actions with a male friend who she was living with accross the country form our home. I swore up and down she wasn't capable of it and all the things you say here, she had said as well as many other things protecting her cheating.
So you know she is a cheater already once, now how do you feel about it twice? You willing to give it another go if you had a smoking gun for proof? Your call but the advise I would give you is serve her papers and move on. Oh and my ex also said she wanted nothing from me until she was served, then her whole story changed. Like you I make a good living. It cost me well over a half mil to settle with her and I had all the cards in my deck. In the end I wanted it over so badly I settled instead of the 2-3 year process in court.
I guess she does fall into the cheating spouse syndrome with her recent behavior. However, to give a little back story, the one night stand she had 7 years ago was when she was in the midst of her alchoholism, and 4 days after that she acknowledged that she had a severe problem, hit rock bottom, and we got her into a rehab facility 300 miles away. She has been sober ever since. No mater what happens, I will always have a great sense of pride about what she is accomplishing thru sobriety. However, because of the one night stand, it completely eroded my self esteem, and I was constantly bringing up the situation, just to have her make me feel reassured. This went on for a good year or so, where there was much tension and confrontation. However, it did dwindle down, and we began to heal. Due to the situation, though, my wife closed herself off from a lot of the outside world. She would check in when she would go out, show receipts if she went shopping, all to reassure me and erase any doubt that I would have about where she would go. I guess I did give off a vibe that she owed me these things, and from what she tells me I would give off severe body language discouraging her from going out with her friends. So, she pulled away from them. Over the past few years, I guess I got comfortable with the way things were, and thought she was too. I will never condone what she did with her friend, whether it was physical or emotional. BUT, I do understand. If indeed she felt boxed in, and wasnt getting what she wanted emotionally from me, I can see someone coming along and making her feel important. I say this because when she was drinking, I didnt want to be near her, I was angry with her, and found myself getting close to a few women that I worked with. The difference was, I realized this for what it was, that these women were giving me "therapy," and I pulled away before I became emotionally attached or anything physical would happen. So, although she was wrong, and she should have come to me about any negative feelings or needs that were not being met, I do understand. Thoughts?
Alcoholism is usually a symptom. Curing it is wonderful, but it doesn't get rid of the underlying problem. So don't think that without alcohol, it isn't likely that she'd cheat. It is less likely, but it is still way up there. Past behaviors are often repeated, as you know especially with people who have addictive personalities.
Maybe try being a little less understanding towards her feelings and get more in tune with you. I agree with a previous suggestion. You should start dating. If that makes her desperate to have you back then you have something to work on. But if she stil wants her freedom and access to you, then you'll have to start putting up boundaries and cut her off sexually.
I do agree, that I have to start thinking about my feelings. However, I am not ready to start dating anyone, period. I do not believe it would help ME, and I wouldnt want to do that just to get my wife to reconsider things. I wouldnt want to get attached to anyone for the wrong reasons, and I also wouldnt want to mess with another girls head. Dont get me wrong, out of anger I have said to my self that I should go get a girl, but I think this would just be replacement therapy and wouldnt truly help me right now, no matter what happens with my wife and I.
I am in the mindframe right now of trying to take responsibility for what I did to contribute to the marriage crumbling, and trying to work on my own issues, which are the only things I have control over. I dont know if Im taking too much blame here or not, but no matter what, it does take 2 to tango, and I want to improve aspects of my character, for Im sure I will be in another relationship someday, whether its reconciling with my wife or another woman.
The following situation is something I do need to work on with my self, to get over some insecurities that used to creep into our marriage (and still creep into my head even now.) My wife went out last night, and whenever she would go out without me, I would always get this gnawing feeling in my stomach that she was going to meet someone who would be better than me. My thoughts are very irrational, I realize that after i calm down, but I always had a problem when she would go out, especially after the incident 7 years ago. I guess I have absolutely no self esteem and think that anyone she would meet would be better than me. I also think over the years that I gave off the impression that I had no faith in her character at all, that I thought she would hop in the sack with some random guy she would meet out somewhere. I do think it affected us, and her. Im sure it wore on her, I know it would have worn on me.
If I reflect and be honest with myself, I feel that I am being a bit arrogant and selfish, along with being very, very insecure. I suppose that my image of myself makes me feel that anyone she would meet would be better than me, and this made me discourage her in the past from branching out and evolving socially. But, instead of working on my own issues with my self esteem and insecurities, I would manipulate her into not evolving herself, just to make me comfortable and secure. My rationale was, "if she dosent go out, she cant meet someone, thus she will always be here with me." These insecurities did severely affect our marriage. For instance, she didnt go to her 10 year reunion, out of fear that I would grill her about guys she was with in high school, for instance. She decided, "its not worth the confrontation, so I wont go."
To sum this post up, I hope I can shed some light on possibly why things evolved the way they did, to get some insight from people who may have felt the same way that I do, and to get perspective from soneone who may have been dealing with the things that my wife had to deal with. I supposed because I was so insecure, I was looking for constant reinforcement from my wife, and since I didnt get it the way I wanted it, I manipulated the situation to cause me the least amount of anxiety and pain. I was no angel through all of this, I didnt make it easy for her either...
Sorry to hear that you're in this situation. I would have to agree with your friends though. She has everything she wants from you, a house to use when she wants, sex when she wants and an emotional relationship all the while she's probably out sleeping around. First of all, if she is sleeping around, could she be bringing you diseases? Next, don't you think that you deserve someone who wants you and only you? Life is too short to sit around on the back-burner waiting for her to maybe change her mind. Cut her off and get yourself back out there and find the woman that you really deserve, I guarantee you she's out there!
Peak in on our marriage at theperfecthusband3703.blogspot.com
Well, to update everyone on the situation, I have initiated cutting her off from the creature comforts of our house. I told her at lunch today that since she is adamantly against being my wife, then she has to stop living like it, and I have to stop allowing it. I told her that she does indeed have the best of both worlds, and its not allowing me to heal. As much as I love her, and feel comfortable with her, I need to do this for myself. I would love nothing more than a true reconciliation, but it takes two. She is going to have to take the kids her 3 days a week to her little apartment, and she basicallly is going to get what she asked for. nothing more, nothing less. I have to admit, i was afraid of this, but I do see the need to begin this process. Everyone was telling me, "let her go, then she will come back." I dont want to play games though, with myself, or her. if I let go, its because I have no more interest in continuing the marriage. I dont want to let go to get her back. i think I would be seting myself up for more heartache. So, do you all think Im on the right path? And, by doing this, am I giving the impression that I am letting go?
Do not change a thing about how you behave. Finish your divorce - the terms are very very good for you.
And then decide what/if anything you want to change about how you two interact. If you make it combative now she may go for the gold.....
By the way, you can always choose to be more generous then the terms of the divorce. But she may also end up with a wealthy man so it is good to have a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirsh2000
I guess she does fall into the cheating spouse syndrome with her recent behavior. However, to give a little back story, the one night stand she had 7 years ago was when she was in the midst of her alchoholism, and 4 days after that she acknowledged that she had a severe problem, hit rock bottom, and we got her into a rehab facility 300 miles away. She has been sober ever since. No mater what happens, I will always have a great sense of pride about what she is accomplishing thru sobriety. However, because of the one night stand, it completely eroded my self esteem, and I was constantly bringing up the situation, just to have her make me feel reassured. This went on for a good year or so, where there was much tension and confrontation. However, it did dwindle down, and we began to heal. Due to the situation, though, my wife closed herself off from a lot of the outside world. She would check in when she would go out, show receipts if she went shopping, all to reassure me and erase any doubt that I would have about where she would go. I guess I did give off a vibe that she owed me these things, and from what she tells me I would give off severe body language discouraging her from going out with her friends. So, she pulled away from them. Over the past few years, I guess I got comfortable with the way things were, and thought she was too. I will never condone what she did with her friend, whether it was physical or emotional. BUT, I do understand. If indeed she felt boxed in, and wasnt getting what she wanted emotionally from me, I can see someone coming along and making her feel important. I say this because when she was drinking, I didnt want to be near her, I was angry with her, and found myself getting close to a few women that I worked with. The difference was, I realized this for what it was, that these women were giving me "therapy," and I pulled away before I became emotionally attached or anything physical would happen. So, although she was wrong, and she should have come to me about any negative feelings or needs that were not being met, I do understand. Thoughts?
Sometimes I wonder if some of the people on here are related to my husband. My husband treats me the way you treated your wife - except I never had an affair. She broke your trust. I never had any trust to begin with. I am beginning to see how huge the trust issue is. She didn't want to work it out. She wasn't begging for your trust. She wanted her freedom, she didn't want to have to prove herself to you, and yet she still wants the security that you offer. You did the right thing. If she wants the marriage, then she needs to step up. If she doesn't, then she would most likely cheat again.
AIL is right--SHE BROKE THE TRUST. Nothing you needed for reassurance after that was inappropriate--she should have kissed the ground in thanks that you took her back at all; the burden was on HER to prove she deserved your trust. But it sounds like you didn't do marital counseling, which would have really helped since the marriage was so affected by her alcoholism.
As for the divorce, no court will allow you to walk away for so little-she would be in danger of becoming a burden on the state, so courts can't let accept agreements like the one you describe. Although it varies from state to state, most likely you will have to provide something for her to have as alimony/maintenance and child support for the amount of time she has the kids. Absent any current addiction/abuse, etc., the courts will also want to see the children having significant time with each parent--not necessarily 50/50, but something--because that is in the kids' best interest. Please keep that in mind, as much as you may come to dislike your wife or whatever--your dislike/distrust doesn't mean she's a bad mom or that the kids are unsafe with her.
So, sit down and hammer out something reasonable--again, it will save you time and $$ down the road, because if she gets a lawyer, you will likely have to pay more than she now sounds willing to accept. Be somewhat more generous, but you don't have to go 50/50 (although on the house and pension/retirement, you probably will).
Remember that while the courts want things to be somewhat fair, ultimately they are most interested in protecting the kids and the tax payers from anything that is UNfair. Let that be your guide, not your emotions. Good luck.
First of all, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. To continue on this ride that I have been explaining to all of you, heres the latest. My wife and I had a counseling session last week and the counselor said point blank that my wife is giving mixed signals to me (see earlier posts about her still staying here at the house, wanting sex, etc.) Well this morning, she said that she wanted to stay , and later she said that she changed her mind, and acknowledges that she cant keep giving me mixed signals. Admittedly, I got upset, because although she has been playing with my emotions (whether intentionally or not) it was very comfortable with her here so much, because I still love her and want her around. I do know, however, that it is probably best for me in the long run if we pull away from each other. I told her that she needs to get the rest of her stuff out of here, and she agreed. I also said that I didnt think we should continue counseling, because for me, it seems very one sided, where I am the one pouring my heart out, taking responsibility for my contributions to the marriage, and she still is very closed off and indifferent. However, she said that she wanted to continue with the counseling. She wants to deal with issues that we had in the marriage, such as an abortion that we had early in our marriage, control issues, etc. And heres the kicker. When I asked her why, she said that she wants a best friend, and a confidant, and she wants it to be me. Now, this isnt the first time she has said something like this. A few weeks ago, i asked her what she felt my good qualities were. Heres what she said. "I know you love me, you have always been a good father, you are compassionate, you are caring, you are supportive, etc." Wouldnt you think these are qualities you would want in your spouse? Anyway, im looking for feedback about the "best friend and Confidant" statement. Why would she want to divorce and still want me as her best friend and confidant? talk about confusing! thoughts?
I can't help you really but wanted to say I understand your confusion. My Ex wants to help me through the break up and be my friend - he told me he no longer loves me but respects, admires and enjoys my company.
I have decided this week to just go without him - trying to cut contact - very hard as trully he is the one who understands me the best and can calm/relax me when I'm upset/emotional etc.
I'm not even sure that we could be friends in the long run. Too emotionally attached right now for me, but I'll give it a shot.
Perhaps if you told her that you are too emotionally attached right now and that she needs to take a step back if she wants to be 'friends', BUT only if you could be friends - and only friends with no hope of a future together.
My situation...
