That is unique to each individual. Only YOU know what you can handle. I've seen people deal with it, accept it, and work to improve the marriage. But she has to understand what she did and have remorse, or it will happen again. What do you think?
I think...... my head hurts......
Honestly? I think she doesn't realize the damage she has done. I think she feels it was just a mistake that she can't fix, and her ability to admit that much is enough to wipe the slate clean.
You all are missing the point. If you try to teach morality by telling them their mom is a bad person, you crush them--they LOVE her. They TRUST her. She has been a good mom to THEM (assuming she has).
You teach morality by what you do, not what you say. You either forgive and move forward, teaching forgiveness (which implies a sin to be forgiven, and they will figure it out), or you divorce, teaching that you do NOT accept infidelity under ANY circumstances. They will get that message loud and clear when they are old enough to understand it. Preach all you want about morality; all you really are doing is trying to make young children see it your way b/c you are angry at the other person and want revenge, to try to get the kids to side with you against their mother. And if you do, remember: they may grow up and disagree with you, and they may well resent YOU for turning them against a person they choose to forgive. That's their prerogative when they are adults. They will see you for the vengeful, bitter person you were and might still be.
When kids get older, it will be time to talk to them about what happened. Teens can handle it IF it's not a current issue.
And you don't lie to them. You tell the the truth that is age appropriate. That goes for everything you do with kids. They do not have the brain development to handle the issues and nuances raised by too much information, too soon.
You are also kidding yourselves if you believe happily married people have affairs b/c they are tempted/curious. Your partner cheated b/c s/he wasn't getting something out of the marriage. She would not have been "curious" if she was truly fulfilled. The breakdown in the marriage is on BOTH parties. Absent true mental illness, no one can say they are "innocent" of ANY contribution to that breakdown.
The cheating, however, is all on her. That's why he can insist she meet HIS terms for even thinking about working on the marriage (related to rebuilding trust). But if he agrees, then he has to accept his contributions and he has to root them out, even if it hurts, b/c otherwise, the same thing is likely to happen again.
And you don't lie to them. You tell the the truth that is age appropriate. That goes for everything you do with kids. They do not have the brain development to handle the issues and nuances raised by too much information, too soon.
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I just think it is all a matter of timing. I think kids can only digest so much at any given time, and the actual morality of the situation is one that has to be introduced gradually, but firmly.
No, we're not all missing the point.
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Your partner cheated b/c s/he wasn't getting something out of the marriage. She would not have been "curious" if she was truly fulfilled.
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Do you BRIDE'S NAME) take GROOM'S NAME to be your husband – to live together after God’s ordinance – in the holy estate of matrimony? Will you love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sadness and in joy, to cherish and continually bestow upon him your heart’s deepest devotion, forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto him as long as you both shall live?
just a little refresher on what a wedding vow means. I'll say again, I will take responsibility for my faults.
Even though I have not addressed the OM with our kids, they know instinctively that their mother is lying and doing something wrong. I plan on telling them my position however I need to hold off in the short term due to legal issues surrounding child custody. They frown upon parents putting their spouses in a bad light - no matter what they are doing. I will "fill them in" once the court date is past and the divorce is final.
There is nothing appropriate about sharing their mother's sex life with young children no matter how you slice it, nor is sharing any degree of detail about problems within the marriage.
Furthermore, that continues to cloud other important issues--mutual obligation to keep a marriage healthy.
The OP does not deserve that his wife took this easy way out of marriage challenges. He may choose not to forgive her, and that's fine.
If one partner insists on blaming the other, where does it go? To a horribly ugly exchange of "sins" that the children hear. The wife in this instance, may well retaliate by telling the kids WHY she found a boyfriend. Do you want the kids exposed to that?
Be moralists and not parents, and see where it gets you. And p.s.: lots of people who cheat had faithful parents, and vice--versa. A pattern of good parenting will be a heck of a lot more important in the long run than one deviation from that pattern.
sisters I think you may be confusing "blame" with stating the truth in love. There is a vast difference.
Blame would sound like "YOUR MOTHER screwed another man and got herself pregnant, not to mention the possibility of sexual diseases! We were great before she did this awful thing and now she's getting what she deserves!" This is one spouse putting the responsibility for everything on the other spouse and sucking in the kids, trying to get them on their side. This very much so IS destructive and is not at all what we are encouraging--at least not me!
I am encouraging the truth in love. The fact is that children are perceptive. I am positive they already know there is a major issue. At some point there are going to notice that mommy is pregnant (if she chooses to not have an abortion which is a whole other post). They need to have some idea of what is going on, explained to them in an age-appropriate honest way by their father. If they are told, "Mom had a boyfriend and mom's and dad's are supposed to love each other, so yeah it's caused some trouble, but we are working on it" then that is neither lying nor blaming. That is stating the truth. Further, it might be reasonable to say that both did some things wrong and they're working on doing a better job and fixing what they did wrong.
You are right about one thing sisters--the children do get crushed--but it's not by the spouse who was loyal and spoke the truth. The children get crushed by the parent who had the affair and was willing to tear apart their family and their life so they could have the thrill of a lover. It is entirely unfair to say that the loyal spouse speaking the truth is what would crush the kids.
Further you have another good point: "..they LOVE her. They TRUST her. She has been a good mom to THEM (assuming she has)." Not even arguing how good a mom is that would take her children to meet a lover while still married to their father...let's only focus on the feeding, child-rearing and care she has provided. You are right the children DO love her and trust her, and from a child-like perspective, if a parent does something it must be okay. They trust her to think of THEM ahead of herself. They trust her to do the right thing by them and show them how to behave. By not saying a single word, because they love and trust her, they will wonder if what she did was appropriate.
I think this is one point where a lot of people lose their way. And look--as I said I've been in Hynd's wife's shoes enough to know that I don't blame her and that almost anyone could slip and have an affair. Shoot, I am positive that him working 50 hours left her lonely and vulnerable to someone who came along and swept her off her feet, spent time with her, complimented her, and she just felt so good that she fell for it. Nope this is not blame. This is just openness and honesty with children at a level they can understand.
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Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare
Last edited by Affaircare; 02-08-2010 at 03:16 PM.
Believe me, I have played that out soooooo many times in my head, and I always end up with 2 problems: 1) I have not seen ONE honest tear from her to date. 2) We were both virgins when we met! I realize that it is perfeclty acceptable to have multiple partners in a lifetime, and even I personally would have no quams living in that world after divorce, but can you imagine how that would change our relationship? I can. (btw, our sex life was GREAT!)
Not quite done,
Not just screwing someone on the side, but unprotected? And then comming home and without missing a beat jumping in the sack with me? she not only put both our LIVES in danger, but oppened up the possibility that our kids could have NO parents! and now she is going to have an abortion to save her marriage! Yea, Id'e consider that pretty bleak...........
Hynd, may I specifically address these with you? I won't kid you, if you and your wife choose to really work at this and give it a go, I'm not suggesting that you would have it easy and not have some REALLY hard stuff in your life. There is no option that I know of that wouldn't be really difficult and absolutely test the metal of your character. The options would be
a) She has an abortion which just screams NO! in your conscience.
b) She offers the child for adoption. This means that your wife would have to willingly give up one of her children--and she is your wife and it is her child.
c) She keeps the child and you raise another man's child as your own. This means that the child is INNOCENT and you love it for being your wife's little boy or little girl...and that it is never, EVER held over her head nor is the child ever used as a "weapon."
See? None of those options is a small order and I'll be honest. The man who had the moral courage and character to do any of those is few and far between. But that doesn't mean it can't be done, and it surely doesn't mean that you couldn't make the choice to do it.
When you make a marriage vow, you are basically saying that you make the choice to love that person even when they are not in the mood to receive the love. That you will love them because you choose to, not because they love you back. Well--you can do the same here. Choose to love your wife and her baby. It's not yours...yep that's true. And it is UTTERLY reasonable for you to be devastated that you two were virgins together and now she has taken that from you. The way this would work is that you choose to love her, and she chooses to love you and recognize that part of the cost of her mistake is helping you get through that devastation. Make sense?
And by the way--yeah I know she's not there yet. She's not shedding one tear because she honestly probably really hurting over missing the OM. The more her mind returns to her and the more she becomes the wife you knew, she will shed a tear though--just give her time to get there and sort of to know it's safe to go there and not get pounced on and blamed.
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Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare
Affaircare - I hear ya but am still thinking that no matter how I communicate the "truth" to our little ones that if they are interviewed by a child mediator it will still come across as "Daddy doesn't like the OM and said Mommy is bad". They don't understand the personal violation here. They are not old enough.
The man who had the moral courage and character to do any of those is few and far between. But that doesn't mean it can't be done, and it surely doesn't mean that you couldn't make the choice to do it.
morality: the quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct
I wonder about 'moral courage' It sounds like what you are saying is that 'moraly' I should stand by my wedding vows no matter what she has done? I can't help but feel I would be dishonest to myself if I 'decided' to love her at this point. Would that be moral? (btw, reading on your site AC and the part about 'I decided to love you' realy hit home. Something so simply put could sum up so much about marriage....)
As far as W goes, I guess as you say, time will tell. I have been sticking to my theme of 'no hope' with her, knowing that her judgment will be affected if I give her any sign otherwise. I think that no matter where we might end up we have to start here unless she pulls off something incredible in the way of re-concilliation??? Her choices are 1) work it out w/OM 2) strike out on her own. If she did decide to go it alone it may be an indication that she is willing to deal with her mistakes....I guess this is the type of thing I need to see from her first before I can consider 'deciding to love' again. Its up to her now.....
Lawyer was predictable: $200 consult to basically confirm what I already knew and get the retainer fee pitch......
I just don't think there is anyway for the one cheated on to explain this to children without conveying the message that it is "all" her fault.
I should have said, it is up to the guilty party to speak to the children about their own actions--just as it is up to the other partner to admit he made mistakes, too. When the mother is visibly pregnant, that may be the right time for her to address her actions (again, with only age-appropriate information).
OP, as for forgiveness--you can forgive and learn to love her again, but the real question is, can you ever love her as a WIFE again? You may choose to love someone, but that does not mean you can love them as a spouse. I am a very loving person, but I could not love my ex as a husband. I treated him very lovingly but too much was missing for me to continue to cherish him as a husband. Love is universal, marital love is specific.
You are holding out for some sign from her, and although that may be coming from somewhere selfish in you, it may also simply be a matter of, "I can't love her again as a wife if she is not willing to take responsibility for her own actions." If you can't respect her, you cannot really love her. That makes sense to me.
it is up to the guilty party to speak to the children about their own actions--just as it is up to the other partner to admit he made mistakes, too.
In theory, this might be the right answer, but it is completely reliant on the guilty party. She can't even own up to me, do I trust that she will to the kids?
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Love is universal, marital love is specific.
I'm getting there.....(hey, is that another way of saying "Love you, not in love with you!)
You should NEVER allow the person in an affair to tell the kids. They will spin it into "spouse made me do something wrong." The offended spouse can easily say "Mommy made a mistake by getting a boyfriend, but that is over and we are now going to be a happy family, just the (3, 4, 5, etc.) of us, because we both love you very much."
Re: foresight
