cmf

I meant he can do a couple of things- become violent possibly towards you, try to come home in a manipulative way ,make all kinds of promises and just continue behaving the same way. I actually don't know what I would do at this point- I honestly do not trust anything he says or does. But I think my husband will be facing his legal and financial consequences soon too. Our children are suffering but he blames it all on me- despite hearing about it from others. I agree, it is very draining. I am choosing to have as little to do with him as possible right now.

Scott G.

Wow, be careful here. Sounds like a bit of an undercover charmer. Definitely appears to be some self-serving manipulation going on. It appears he may be expecting you to wait around for him so that he has the option of going back to you after he "figures things out." But even if he's not, to get you to open yourself up like that and then immediately say things so hurtful and full of himself, is very self-centered to me.

Hope things are going a little better for you at this point. Like the being cordial with the "business" conversations. It's awesome how your being diplomatic with him for the kids.

finallyseewhy

Scott funny thing is when all this was going on(right after we separated) I asked him(I am ashamed of myself) if he just wanted me to wait for him when he figured things out.....he told me couldn't ask me to do it.

I have a feeling there is some self serving manipulation going on his part and it just makes me sick. It doesn't make make me yearn for him but if anything disgust me. I would like to think that I am wrong and maybe it just that he is beginning to see thing but I just have this feeling it is the other As he said he 'knows he could have me back and just come home if he wanted to' so I guess he figures he can just do what ever the **** he wants.

finallyseewhy

Oh I forgot to add he told me last night when we were texting that he didn't think I wanted him because anymore because when he came over I wouldn't do something sexual with him that I knows he likes. I told him I couldn't give myself to him that way if he wasn't will to give himself to me. He told me, 'well you had me for that moment' I told him I needed more then a moment

finallyseewhy

Well today was very very eventful in a good way I think/hope. I will come back later and write it all out. It has been a long day.

Affaircare

Can't wait to here, finallyseewhy! I'm holding my breath! LOL

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finallyseewhy

I just realized I updated in the wrong thread

UPDATE:

Well the other day H came over and I was very emotional not because of him but it was the 1st day our children went to day care(only 3 hrs and I don't even have a job but we wanted to see how it went) He grabbed me and asked what was wrong and he ended up kissing me and telling me he was miserable the last few days and missed me and wanted to spend the day with me and make love. He came back after he dropped of the kids and to be honest it went great. He was very open about his feelings ect and it felt like we really connected on a deep level. I said something when we were together that I didn't know where it came from. I told him that I loved him, wanted him to come back, but I wouldn't let him break me.

Well today he came over today to bring me somewhere I needed him to bring me. Well he started to sort of have a mental break about his fiances and told me he was going to have to live in his SUV because he wasn't going to have any $$$ left. Which is true after paying me child support, day care, and his expensive extended stay he is left with maybe $20-60 a week. He was on E and the gas light was on. He has a good job but its expensive. Well I told him I was sorry and will pray for him and he sort snapped and said that praying wouldn't put gas in his car or food on his table!
Well we ended up going to lunch(I paid) the kids were with us and they were hungry....it was overall a pretty nice meal. I told him that I felt as if he wanted me to tell him I love him and almost beg and he told me that he wanted me to tell him for years.

Well tomorrow he gets paid and will have to pay child support/day care and I know he is going to bring up money. I told him today I felt as if he was manipulating me and saying things that he knows would get to me.....saying he had no food/was going to have to live in his car. He said he wasn't...that he wasn't that good at doing it

Its sort of strange because I am feeling better, stronger, and almost clearer. I love him and miss being a family unit. I feel like I am at a crucial turning point and don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I need to give an ultimatum and then part of me feels like I need to just wade out the storm.

Please Help

______
I wanted to add that the women he had an OW with they work together so having no contact is not possible. I did comfort her and truly believe it was just co-worker/friendship for her....she did NOT know he was lying to me about meeting her/texting. I will say I can tell he was just wanting for something to open up. He got very wound up in all of it

_____

Well I just looked at the account and he is not going to make it this week on what he has. I feel bad because he has a really great job but with child support/daycare/expensive extended stay hotel it just is too much. With that said this is a situation he put himself into

If Affaircare or anyone is around I would love some feedback. I am seriously scared and almost want to turn off my phone because I imagine today is not going to be fun. I really can't because he is coming over today to get the kids so I HAVE to talk to him.

Affaircare

This is some good "Carrot and Stick" (aka Plan A) stuff finallyseewhy. It sounds to me like you wanted to and were willing to make love and I have no doubt that is one of his Love Kindlers so good job. Also it sounds like you two talked on a deeper level, which is another good thing. Bear in mind he may be doing some of this to "butter you up" or for selfish reasons but in a way that's mildly okay because the point of this step is to let him see that you CAN stop the Love Extinguishers that hurt him and you can also be the woman who kindles his love. It's not a "competition" with the OW but rather you just be the woman you have the potential to be and the shining beacon for how to find his way back to the marriage.

It's fine to allow him to voice his frustration and fears, but I'm glad you didn't take his bait and offer to buy gas etc. This is almost perfect "Carrot and Stick" in that he sees that he can make love and even go to lunch with you...but has to live in his SUV and have no money with OW. Just to get the hang of it, this might have been a great opportunity to say: "You know, you would not have to live in your SUV or have an empty gas tank if you would (insert... "make the choice to work on the issues in our marriage and come home" or whatever your come home requirements are.. here). This would plant the seed in his mind that you'd still work with him and he does still have an option...but it's not back to the way it used to be and he'll have to do some work.

AH HA! This is a very important clue, finallyseewhy. Right there he just told you one of the things that was a fairly big Love Extinguisher for him. He may be a "rescuer" kind of guy and you are a fully-capable, adult woman...but some part of him wants to know and HEAR OUT LOUD that you love him, want him, choose him...choose to be with him. Okay I realize this is me reading into his words, but I am also a person whom LOVES what I call admiration. I love to hear over and over that I make someone happy, did a good job, look good, smell good, etc. etc. etc. My literal guess is that you could build his love fire and quickly by finding ways to say positive, encouraging, uplifting, building things about him, his looks, his job, everything. I'll bet you money the OW did and that's how he fell for her (even if she didn't fall for him).

I agree, I think you're at a turning point too but the turning point is that HE is starting to figure out the affair isn't all it was cracked up to be in his head, and life with you isn't as bad as he had in his head either! So I'd suggest two things:

1) Begin to think now of what you would need in order for him to return home. I would think: a) End Contact with the OW and never, ever speak to her again; b) Access to all of his online accounts, cell phone, email, facebook etc. to verify he's being honest; c) individual counseling and marriage counseling. Personally I would suggest that he work on some of his own issues (like admitting the things he did to harm the marriage) and show some progress before coming home, but that's because disloyals can often (not always) promise that they'll go to counseling or do the work...get home...and then not do anything or make excuses. So I recommend seeing some progress FIRST. Trust = Actions and Words that match so let him act in a way that earns your trust.

2) Be patient and continue to focus on your own work and your own issues. Work on ending the Love Extinguishers that damaged the marriage. Work on identifying his Love Kindlers and plan how to do them in a way that he likes. You go to counseling and/or a support group and be the loving, happy, capable, smart, funny woman you are. Wait out the storm just a bit more and let him be the one to realize he needs to choose to come home...but that he does have that option and you would work with him to build something better. You won't accept the way it was before--he has to either participate and make it better than it was, or you are perfectly capable of living on your own without him. Okay? Wait.

Okay, I understand (as in comprehend) what you're saying but I say poppyc*ck. In order to end the affair, he can not continue to spend 8+ hours a day with his addiction. This is the rough equivalent of an alcoholic going to 30-day treatment then saying, "I'm going to work at a bar and just resist it." NOT GONNA HAPPEN! So finallyseewhy, she may not have been into it, but HE WAS to the point of leaving his wife and family behind!! For the good of your marriage he either has to end all contact with her, or divorce. Which do you pick? Would you rather continue the periodic work contact and be a single mom? Or would you rather think of a way to creatively survive no contact?

I would suggest a few options. Sometimes no contact does mean leaving a job...but not always. Can he be transferred to another location? Work another shift? Can she move to another department in the company? Can he? My point is that saying "Well...100% no contact is impossible" is a way for the disloyal to continue the thrill of the affair-zing even if it is driven way, down deep...and it is kind of a cop out. There are ways to get them apart, and if it's a small company with no way to work apart...well then that's part of the cost of choosing to NOT devote all of his affection and loyalty to the one with whom he has a covenant! Seriously--if he was fired you two would survive it somehow right? It wouldn't be easy but you would come through it together. Worst case scenario you can survive this too! But don't agree to "some contact" or "minimum contact"--it will ... I'm telling you even if it's one-sided, it WILL prolong the affair and your hubby will stay in the fog as long as the affair continues.

I would suggest texting or calling him and saying, "Today is your day to pick up the kids, so I will expect you at the usual time: XXX o'clock. I'll have them ready for you." Then turn your phone off, have them ready, sort of send them out and you follow in a little bit to say goodbye, and go back in the house. If he tries to hook you into a money-talk, just say, "Oh I'm sorry I can't talk now. Have a good night with the kids! Bye!" and walk into the house.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

finallyseewhy

Affaircare THANK YOU!!!!

You pretty much hit everything on the head! I fully understand why he went to the OW she gave him something he wasn't getting at home....feeling like a man and feeling important!

Today he called and told me he was pretty much screwed with money and started to go off/vent about everything. He started to say that he didn't think I had changed/loved him because I was being so 'hardlined' about the money issue for child support/day care. I told him I had to and told him to take himself outside of his bubble and look in from the outside and if he would tell anyone else to NOT be hard about it. I told him he needed to accept his responsibility and that he self sabotaged himself.

Like you said he wanted to hear that I loved him and wanted him back. He mentioned that I never said I loved him/wanted him back....and I said I have about 100's and he said that he just didn't hear it for so long. You are VERY right about him wanting to be saved. He has always been that type of person I don't want to call him 'needy' but in many ways he is. He needs to be self assured a lot and made to feel he is important.

He mentioned coming home and that I just might get my way. I told him he needed to want to come home and that I wanted him too but not to the way it was.

The OW is a deal breaker for me and I have to have it be. He works for a big company and he could transfer it would be awhile and maybe even a long process but it COULD happen. He is a manager so it might be a little more difficult. She is also a manager and they work closely together several days a week. There was a moment in anger I seriously considered calling HR. Fraternizing is really frowned upon in his company. The probably I had is that they would talk to them but both of them would deny but it would shed light on the issue. He would be very upset and she would be probably even more so. Also I really think the company cares about 'friendship' 'AF'.

He mentioned just paying me more and not paying daycare so I could stay at home. I love this idea BUT I think by doing this to him will just let him continue down the path he is going. I think I have to let the '**** hit the fan' and reality start to sink in.

I am love him but I deserve to have his best and all of him as he does from me. I am willing to give him this but if he is not to me then I can't go back to the way it was.

lostinlove1

finallyseewhy, i am so happy that you have come to place you are coping with it all. I believe some men always want what they can't have, right now you are showing he can't have you - even though maybe in a heartbeat if he had said he loved and wanted it to work you just might consider him back. You have found your strength and power, keep that no matter what, only you know what it is that will make you happy, good on you stay faithful to your heart, cover it, mend it and never lose sight of the facts - he left you for another woman - pathetic.......... proud of you!

finallyseewhy

lostinlove thank you so much I am trying.....so hard right now.

Today was a EXTREMELY emotional day and I don't know if that is a good thing or not I will be back later to post about it.

Neverwouldhave guessed

Hey girl,

You are not in this alone. Only those of us who have lived/are living this nightmare get the pain, as well as the highs and lows of the rollercoaster ride. Even when you feel all by yourself and overwhelmed, we are all in this together. As I saw on another thread, show him that you can live without him, but would like to live with him. Best thing for both of you!!

finallyseewhy

Well yesterday was probably the most raw and emotional day I(we) had since separating(today is actually a month). The night before he came over to drop off the kids and he went to hug me and we just held each other outside for about 20-30 minutes. He asked why we didn't do this more often when we were together He said our oldest asked him to come home again and then asked me if I wanted him too and I just held him I didn't know exactly what to say and to be honest I just wanted to hear what HE had to say....I have been the one talking mostly in all of this

Well the next day he was planning on getting the kids. I texted him I wanted to talk to him he dropped them off at daycare. Well when he came over he started to kiss me and stuff and ask what I wanted to talk about(it was pretty much stuff about the kids but I will say a selfish part of me just wanted to talk to him) Well he asked if I wanted him to come back after he dropped them off....to well 'be together' and I told him yes.

Well on his way back he called me and asked if I still wanted him to come over and I told him that if he wanted to he could. He then said he wanted to but was also tired and frustrated. I said I was frustrated too. Well then he said,'I'm frustrated because I want to **** and then leave and about money and you are frustrated because you want to be back together.I told him he didn't know why I was frustrated and that I would rather him just not come other I needed to finish a few things up. Well he came over and I told him I wanted him to leave and he didn't. Well we ended up spending the afternoon together.

Well as we were laying in bed talking he got a really strange look on his face and I asked him what was wrong. I then told him I could tell he was stressed (in the last month his hair started to almost rapidly reseed and gray...it was already starting but it got kicked into overdrive) Well he almost gasp for air and looked like he was going to cry and said he didn't know what he was going to do. That 2/3 of his check went to me and the kids and he didn't know how he was going to survive. I asked him what he expected or thought it was going to be like and he said he didn't know.

Well then he started to storm out and say he wasn't mad at me but frustrated with the situation and didn't want to talk to me about it. Well I told him to stop and not to leave like this! I asked him what he wanted me to do about it what could I do I was just as screwed as he was!

Well he came back into the room and started to go on about how he was struggling and I SNAPPED I told him to STOP acting like a marder(pretty sure I am spelling that wrong). That we were all hurting and the only real victims in all of this was our children who are know suffering because their parents were to selfish to really put what was needed in their marriage.

I started to cry and I didn't blame him for things but did put the blame on us together. I think I went off for about 20-30 minutes. He just came over and sat on the bed and stared at me. He didn't say a word and honestly I didn't want him to.

Well he left and brought the kids back and he usually just drops them off and tells me what happens and then leaves. Well he walks in and says he wants to sit down for a few minutes. Well he sits on the couch and just talks. Nothing in particular just chit chat. He stayed for about 10-15 minutes.



I have come to the conclusion that he is doing 1 of 3 things from what he is doing and also by his spending(I still have access to the account and can see it online). He was already in a bad situation but he has eaten out and taken the kids out almost spending every last penny he had left. Oh and here is the kicker....he only paid for 2 nights of his hotel and as of right now when he pays the rest he will have maybe $10-15 left of the week and no food.

1)He is self sabotaging himself to the point he will have to come home.
2)Is expecting me to bail him out
3)Is planning on coming home but is trying to figure out if he still can

I don't know what to think at this point but I do know that today a month later after him leaving I feel stronger then I have I think ever. I do feel beaten and broken but strong.

Affaircare

Hey did you see Tanelorn's post over on cmf's thread? I'm going to tell you about the same thing he told her.

We are not psychics so we can not tell "WHY" your disloyal is doing/saying the things he's doing/saying. On the one hand, the fog may be thinning and some light may be shining through and he *just may be* beginning to see that this was foolish! On the other hand, it may all be a ruse to see if he can guilt you into money--we can't be sure. Here's what we CAN tell though: just like we told you, the A is about 99% fantasy and he is beginning to see that reality SUX and is not at all what he THOUGHT it would be like.

I would suggest a couple things for you specifically. As always the requirements for "coming home" don't change:

1) He has to write a No Contact letter to the OW and give it to you--you send it.

2) He has to agree to never, ever contact the OW again ever. In your instance, since they work together I'd say a good step on this road would be putting in the request for transfer. If it bites and is hard on him...well that's part of the price he has to pay for committing adultery at work huh?

3) He has to agree to give you access to ALL of his email addresses, accounts, facebook, cell phone, chat IMs, forums...everything. I personally deleted all mine except one personal one to which my Dear Hubby has the password and can see it any day. The idea is that you are free to check up on him and verify his honesty--and yep he lost the right to "secrecy" by lying to you about the A and hiding it all.

4) He should agree to both individual counseling and marital counseling, and if it were me, I'd recommend that you want to see him willingly go and work on himself for a while before you let him come home.

Now, this is just my word to you--there are two things he is not very likely to do so don't make a big deal about getting these things. He will probably NOT grovel and beg for forgiveness--he may not even admit it was "wrong" etc. for a while. This is because in his mind, he was hurting for a long time (when he was vulnerable to the A) and you weren't willing to change so he may have resentment. AND... he will probably not act all loving and happy to be back. This is partly because he's going through withdrawal from not having the "love-zing" and he'll be bummed over losing that. So don't expect those things and you'll be going into it with your eyes open!

So figure out what you would need in order to have him come back; let him know you are willing to have him come home; and actually have him DO those things for a while first. (Disloyals are notorious for "promising" to go to counseling and then "forgetting" or "I'm trying but it's not working"...so see the changes first and then reconcile.)

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

cmf

I'm glad you posted this affaircare- I was a bit pissed he did not even apologize or ask for forgiveness( but I did not show that I was upset). I think he is still weighing his options. I was a bit surprised he actually used the words-you are the person I fell in love with again. I really haven't been doing plan A for all that long- I guess I am a bit paranoid . We'll see what happens, we meet with the lawyers again this week.