I took the liberty of looking at your post history. More specifically your first ever post (obvioulsy thats where it starts and people start to look for advice)...
Its starting to look pretty conclusive now isn't it?
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Originally Posted by LonelyNLost
This is my first time posting, but I don't know where to turn. I'm a wreck and this is all surreal. Some background...DH and I have been married 10 years (together 13), he's 33 and I'm 32. We have 2 children, an 8 year old and a 2 year old.
Several years back, when our son was 4, I began my first year of teaching. DH and I had worked reverse schedules to care for our son up until that point, and he started pre-K at that time. To me, everything was going great in life. We were able to see DH since he wasn't working as late, and I was doing a job I loved (albeit busy and demanding). DH got into riding his motorcycle and said he was riding with a group of guys he worked with (at a dealership). Long story short, he started an emotional affair with a girl that worked with him and was part of this "guy group". She rode a motorcycle and basically used that as a way to worm her way into our marriage. He's weak and oblivious to other peoples' intentions. I discovered the inappropriate conversations on MySpace the day after he told me things had changed and he wasn't sure if they could ever be the same. I closed his MySpace and confronted him. It wasn't an "I love you" type of EA, but mostly flirtatious and sexual. And they were spending time together and talking on the phone. And he wouldn't cut off contact with her when I demanded it. Basically, his friends, family, everyone made him see that he was an idiot. Boils down to his need for attention as a man wasn't being met because he was jealous of me loving my job and not being his number one priority (up to that point I only worked part time at low wage jobs). He was also turning 30 and having a sort of mid life crisis. We stayed together, went to a couple counseling sessions, which were BS. No emphasis was placed on communication, she made it all about him being okay with who he was and me getting over the EA.
Fast forward a few years. We had our daughter a little more than a year after this happened (yes, I know, babies don't fix things ). Things were really good. We have always had a pretty easy relationship, never fight, laugh a lot, very low maintenance. But I'd warned him before that all relationships require work. So, not a lot of time was spent together. He's a night owl, I work early and need my sleep. He has friends in Vegas where he grew up and keeps in touch with them late at night after I'm in bed due to the 3 hour time difference. Whatever, I'm cool with that. I wish we had some sort of marriage rituals, and time dedicated to each other each night, but we don't.
So, our cycle usually works where we coexist peacefully, have some good times, then lots of other times where it's like we're just roommates. Both of us have our computers up and the TV on, talking on our phones, etc. after the kids are in bed. He used to sit with me and help grade papers, and it was actually fun but now he just sits on the couch and talks to people on Facebook. Then, something triggers me to not trust him (usually him covering up something innocent with a white lie so he doesn't hurt me) and all hell breaks loose. The tears flow, and we both admit that we've grown apart. He always says he's not sure things can be how they were. The latest was Thanksgiving weekend when our daughter was crying in her room at 3am. I got up and he was nowhere to be found. I called him and he said he was in his truck talking to his best friend in Vegas. I thought that was suspicious, and I was right. In the morning I looked at his phone and found that he was talking to his first serious girlfriend out in Vegas that he'd recently been chatting with on Facebook, and their conversation lasted over 2 hours, and it wasn't the first. So I bring it up and I'm wrong for jumping to conclusions, obviously. And he says he'll always have a cloud of suspicion because of his mistake, which he regrets.
Apparently, about a year ago, I hurt him pretty bad when I told him I loved him, but I didn't feel like we were in love anymore. I will be the first to admit that I did push him away out of the feeling that I wanted him to want me. I wanted him to show me affection and prove he loved me. But he saw it as me distancing myself because I was disgusted with him. Now, he's changed. He says he can talk to whoever he wants because they are just friends, nothing is wrong with it, and he would never ask me to not talk to people. But this ex girlfriend is obviously fishing, she's posting all over his pictures and wall and everything. Chatting every night online, talking on the phone, he's friends with her 10 year old son, it's just weird. I went and looked at her husband's page, since DH's defense was that "she's married and lives 2000 miles away" and his relationship status is "it's complicated". Yeah, that's reassuring. Add in that he's visiting out there the second week of January, and you've got a concerned me.
We're at the point now, where he feels like things will never be the same. He hates that he hurts me, and he feels like a failure because I cry and hurt. He places all the blame on himself, I've done nothing wrong, and it's all his fault. Nothing I say can change this. He talks to his dad and his dad tells him he's got to do what's best for him. So, I keep saying that we can really try and I know we can get things back, and he says we've tried before. But I try to make him see that we said we'd try but there was never an action plan. He refuses to go to a counselor with me. Basically, I feel like (based on his texts and what he's said to me) that he thinks that hurting me one last time by leaving would be better than trying to save our relationship and failing. This hurts so much. He says he doesn't want to do this in front of the kids and ruin their Christmas, and let's not figure anything out until after Christmas, etc. He wants me to "relax" and not discuss things in front of the kids and because he can't handle it every day, so we pretend to be okay. He'll kiss me on the head and give me hugs and keeps telling me he loves me. But he won't say that he'll try. He thinks things are changed forever because of what happened a few years ago. I agree, it changed my view of him, but the problem boils down to communication and trust. And we've got to rebuild those. We are really good together and compatible. It's just that life got in the way. And it kills me that he can't see that people go through this all of the time, and some give up and some succeed. And that the most powerful message we can send our kids is to try and succeed. Because down at the root of it all we are still the same people, and our relationship is worth saving. But how can I make him see this?
I dont' want to add to your worries, but this has a real huge smoking gun.
And I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they met up and their was more to this
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Originally Posted by Neil
I took the liberty of looking at your post history. More specifically your first ever post (obvioulsy thats where it starts and people start to look for advice)...
Its starting to look pretty conclusive now isn't it?
I know. And what his friend wrote me seemed spot on. I just wish he knew what he got from my H that made him think that. Why doesn't my H see how bad this looks?
I posted that first post, and now it hurts to look back at it. A week after that I had had enough. I called his mom to watch the kids and made him go talk to me a week before Christmas. I threw our vows in his face and told him I meant mine. He didn't turn around immediately, but later that night he came to me and said he'd make it work, that we could do this, etc. Things really did turn around. He says he "jumped in with no parachute".
Then 3 weeks later he went to Vegas. We got into one argument while he was there, and then when he came home, things were different. He was irritated with me. He texted me and said, "can we get back on track" and I was like yes, let's go out. But we really never did. It was one thing after the next. Finding the ex's facebook post saying that the place she'd most like to visit was our town was my breaking point. I lost it. He tried to leave that weekend, but I kept him from doing so. We actually had a good weekend, went on a date, had fun with neighbors. But it's just deteriorating by the minute. Then I let him go "find himself" and he comes back worse. He says it hurt for everything to explode like that and he can't try and then be back at this point again. I am at my wit's end.
You youngsters and your gadgets....text message war......snort!
Haha, it's not my preference. But he's spineless. He started it with "You and I need to talk." Like he's my father or something. Then he just let loose. Back and forth for like 5 hours. Ridiculous. But it's the only way I can calm myself and think about what I say first. Same for him, I believe. He can also lie easier behind text messages.
Wow, I'm really struggling today. I went to bed okay last night, I guess because I was angry enough. But I just keep wondering why my husband, who loved me so much and who I cherish, is treating me this way? I wish I knew the truth, because I still don't. And I wouldn't know how to get it. It all seems blatantly obvious that he's got something going on with the ex gf, even if it is a lower level EA. But then I think what if it isn't anything, and my suspicions and digging have driven him away? Even in that case, you'd think he would have tried to calm my fears instead of stirring them up with more lies and wacky behavior.
I pointed out to him in text last night that it's messed up that I can forgive the EA 4 years ago, but he'd never be able to forgive me for contacting a "friend's" ex or calling the ex and letting the phone ring twice. Nice. He just said that he made choices and I made choices and what's done is done. Said it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was all so angry and rude. Bottom line is that he put his own selfish needs and her feelings above mine, and I'm his wife. I deserve better. I'm just so crushed at it all. LIke I think it's really over. He is a different man to me. And I don't even know why.
He is a different man to me. And I don't even know why.
Hang in there Lonely.
He is probably the same man, you just have a new perception of him. You have now seen how he responded to these situations and it is completely at odds with what you expected because YOU are a reasonable individual.
He is probably the same man, you just have a new perception of him. You have now seen how he responded to these situations and it is completely at odds with what you expected because YOU are a reasonable individual.
I like to think so, but he makes me feel like a nutso, and then I beat myself up over it. Why is he the one who has completely disregarded my feelings and is possibly having another EA, and I am here willing to change? It's all messed up. I never wanted my marriage to end. But I don't think I can deal with this anymore. He's being heartless. It hurts so bad.
You might just need to say you need to chose between losing me and MC and start moving on. I think you are already starting to seriously consider moving on. If thats where your at, start a non-contact unless he is willing to MC and commit.
He might not have wanted to go to MC due to both depression and knowing all the EA stuff would come out. A few stories recently people have resisted MC due to an EA/PA that they didn't want revealed.
I don't think that its really possible for you two to work out without MC, and you tried the less drastic route. It might be time to say that you are still willing to start MC, but that may not be the case in the near future. You might need to do a "man up" and say these are my boundries and I'm tired of being treated like sh*t. I think you did that diplomatically in the letter, but you might need to hardline it and make it a simple choice for him.
I think you tried to do everything less drastic than that and it might be time for him to really chose. His current choice is to be depressed and treat you like crap. Force a new decision and wait a month or two and see if he changes his mind. Its not OK for him to remain depressed with a EA / partial EA.
I would never suggest this unless you had put a TON of work into a less drastic route.
You might just need to say you need to chose between losing me and MC and start moving on. I think you are already starting to seriously consider moving on. If thats where your at, start a non-contact unless he is willing to MC and commit.
He might not have wanted to go to MC due to both depression and knowing all the EA stuff would come out. A few stories recently people have resisted MC due to an EA/PA that they didn't want revealed.
I don't think that its really possible for you two to work out without MC, and you tried the less drastic route. It might be time to say that you are still willing to start MC, but that may not be the case in the near future. You might need to do a "man up" and say these are my boundries and I'm tired of being treated like sh*t. I think you did that diplomatically in the letter, but you might need to hardline it and make it a simple choice for him.
I think you tried to do everything less drastic than that and it might be time for him to really chose.
Thanks. I hate being in this place. I tried to tell him via text last night that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first. However, I don't think he'd respond very nicely to an ultimatum. He is done. He would be willing to move on no problem, I think. He doesn't want the marriage, because it's easier to leave it. He's not willing to do anything, lift a finger, or anything to make things better. Including MC.
I even asked him at the end of the conversation, I said "when you cool off we need to discuss some things" to which he replied "it will be a long while before I start to cool off" and I just replied "fine". That was the end of the convo. I am pretty much in no contact. The think about the letter, is that he didn't even process it or read it carefully because he was so pissed about me "digging" for something. No more letters from me. No more text conversations. No more talks. I'm waiting this out, and if divorce papers come, I will contest. Just so he knows I'm committed to the marriage. He thinks its past the point of no return. Why? All I've done is try. Yes, I've pushed him away by being suspicious and snooping, but he's done nothing to help me. He's choosing his actions and being selfish. Internal struggle or not.
The only suggest I have is to lay this out clearly for him in a brief e-mail so that there is not a misunderstanding. Your letter was pretty epic.
4-7 sentences of what you are choosing to do and what his choices are. Where you stand and why. That you are still currently interested in MC, but that won't last.
If its already clear to him, then just wait it out, but sometimes a clear and concise statement means more than a 2 page letter.
I think with depression and an EA that non contact with a clear statement is the best. It may take months for him to realize he is depressed and figure out his own sh*t, but I think contact from you is only pushing that back. He may never figure out **** own sh*t.
I've read a few stories on here where people don't realize that they have been horrible towards their ex and want them back until its years too late and their ex has found someone new and better. I think he'll realize one day what you did to try to save the marriage and that he lost something he should have saved.
The only suggest I have is to lay this out clearly for him in a brief e-mail so that there is not a misunderstanding. Your letter was pretty epic.
4-7 sentences of what you are choosing to do and what his choices are. Where you stand and why. That you are still currently interested in MC, but that won't last.
If its already clear to him, then just wait it out, but sometimes a clear and concise statement means more than a 2 page letter.
I think with depression and an EA that non contact with a clear statement is the best. It may take months for him to realize he is depressed and figure out his own sh*t, but I think contact from you is only pushing that back. He may never figure out **** own sh*t.
I've read a few stories on here where people don't realize that they have been horrible towards their ex and want them back until its years too late and their ex has found someone new and better. I think he'll realize one day what you did to try to save the marriage and that he lost something he should have saved.
Best of luck.
Thanks, anx. I am rather wordy. I think I might have to wait out any type of communication. I don't think he fully realizes he is being horrible to me. I think he's rationalized everything. He knows he's hurting me, but I think he tells himself that it's because I see him that way and he can never change that. I do hope his friend would make him see that he's hurting me by his actions, but the friend is afraid of being cut out. Our other mutual friend, who is a neighbor, can't get H to open up at all. He even told him he talked to me, and he is worried about him, and my H just replied "I know. I'm the bad guy. I take the blame."
He just looks guilty as sin. He acts guilty. Everything points to him not being honest. It's a shame. I really do think I'm dealing with an EA. And I can't wrap my mind around taking him back and getting over that. I even am starting to question if I could get past all his actions at the moment. And words.
Which points do you think it is important to make? I don't want anything to sound like an ultimatum. Do I acknowledge that he thinks this is done and at the point of no return? I mean, he acted childish and deleted me, my family, and our mutual friends off facebook. He's not thinking or acting rationally, according to his best friend (who he has no idea I'm talking to. Hopefully H doesn't go to the house today because I left his number on the table!). Do I lay out a visitation schedule for the kids? Do I tell him a time to call each night? I just don't know what to do. I am afraid that if he thinks I'm done with it all that he will be relieved and file. But everyone is telling me to act done and move on with my life and he will realize what he's losing. But I don't think that happens if you're depressed. This is all so hard! I'm so damn lonely and my heart is broken.
I want to set boundaries, because I've let him walk all over me. I really don't want him at the house, and I don't want to talk to him. I only want to discuss things like the kids and finances unless he's decided that he is committed to our marriage. Right now, he thinks I'm off my rocker. He has justified everything he's said and done. I even asked him once if he had regrets in all this, and he just said, "I regret lying to you about calling her, but I still would've called her."
But everyone is telling me to act done and move on with my life and he will realize what he's losing. But I don't think that happens if you're depressed.
I think of depression (I've been through it) is more like a fog of sadness.
Thats why I suggested being clear and concise. No misunderstandings. Especially since you are considering changing how you act towards him. You need to be clear WHY and consistent in telling him how you feel.
You guys can't keep going like this. You've put as much into it as you could. You really have done a lot and from what I can tell everything that you should have. I don't know if you could have put in more or even if you had 180ed harder it would have mattered. He has already decided to treat you like cr*p.
Your right to be concerned that it doesn't happen in depression, but what would hopefully happen is he would have the space and time and clear signals that he has made these decisions, and then chose what his next move is. Hopefully his next move is to fix his depression first and then think clearly about what happened and why.
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I want to set boundaries, because I've let him walk all over me.
You need to. There was a good post on here about how to deal with anxious and depressed people that I'll never be able to find again. The poster talked about keeping clear boundaries, and if those are crossed backing it up with an action. Coming from depression, anxiety, and the constant urge to get addicted to substances (I have to be very careful with caffine/alcohol/etc), its probably the way to go.
You posted on my story that we are similar in many ways. Please draw those boundaries out of self respect. Make it clear and concise how you feel. Through the fog of depression, the only thing you hear is the actions, clear and consistent (repeated or written down) boundaries and consequences.
You very well may need to treat you husband similar to how people treat addicts. Protect yourself, stay strong, keep solid boundaries, tell them they can come back to your life when they are clean, and be hopeful that one day their loving SO may return, but enabling them to hurt you or continue with unhealthly actions is a thing of the past.
Is there a women's shelter in your area where you could find a support group? Sometimes religious organizations also have support groups if you are so inclined. This forum is great, but sometimes interactions in person can be powerful too.
Thanks. I hate being in this place. I tried to tell him via text last night that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first. However, I don't think he'd respond very nicely to an ultimatum. He is done. He would be willing to move on no problem, I think. He doesn't want the marriage, because it's easier to leave it. He's not willing to do anything, lift a finger, or anything to make things better. Including MC.
I even asked him at the end of the conversation, I said "when you cool off we need to discuss some things" to which he replied "it will be a long while before I start to cool off" and I just replied "fine". That was the end of the convo. I am pretty much in no contact. The think about the letter, is that he didn't even process it or read it carefully because he was so pissed about me "digging" for something. No more letters from me. No more text conversations. No more talks. I'm waiting this out, and if divorce papers come, I will contest. Just so he knows I'm committed to the marriage. He thinks its past the point of no return. Why? All I've done is try. Yes, I've pushed him away by being suspicious and snooping, but he's done nothing to help me. He's choosing his actions and being selfish. Internal struggle or not.
If your conversations have been like this, it's not surprising that he's still resisting. All he sees when he deals with you is you telling him how bad/wrong/unfit he is.
In his mind, better to just walk away than live with someone who simply makes him feel bad.
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Re: Now what? "I love you and I always will..." 
). Things were really good. We have always had a pretty easy relationship, never fight, laugh a lot, very low maintenance. But I'd warned him before that all relationships require work. So, not a lot of time was spent together. He's a night owl, I work early and need my sleep. He has friends in Vegas where he grew up and keeps in touch with them late at night after I'm in bed due to the 3 hour time difference. Whatever, I'm cool with that. I wish we had some sort of marriage rituals, and time dedicated to each other each night, but we don't. 
