The only suggest I have is to lay this out clearly for him in a brief e-mail so that there is not a misunderstanding. Your letter was pretty epic.
That is was.
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4-7 sentences of what you are choosing to do and what his choices are. Where you stand and why. That you are still currently interested in MC, but that won't last.
short and to the point, non emotional.
Write it out, submit it here, and allow the people here to tear it to pieces and put it back together is the way to go I think.
you must be old, mind you, I haven't had a txt msg war, guess that makes me old as well ! hmmmmm
I use thousands of SMS a month - but for information etc. If I need to talk to someone I will talk to them. Email, sms, voicemail is just more ways to screen out people.
What next? People here already complain about facebook battles. I don't if that 's sad or funny. Maybe both. There's a French word for that, chantepleure.
If your conversations have been like this, it's not surprising that he's still resisting. All he sees when he deals with you is you telling him how bad/wrong/unfit he is.
In his mind, better to just walk away than live with someone who simply makes him feel bad.
What is wrong with saying "that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first" and "when you cool off we need to discuss some things"? He was cursing at me like crazy and basically speaking at me like I was his child. He did treat me unfairly and did not put my needs first. He knows this. If he is in an EA or not, it's still the case. I have told him time and time again how uncomfortable I was with him being friends with her. He was selfish about it and insisted that it was nothing and just expected me to believe him and accept all the lies. Even after he was caught. And right now, he's also not putting my feelings first, as he's worried about how he looks to her and not to me. What would have been the best way to respond? And most of our conversations are about how he is so emotionally drained and can't do anything to commit to this marriage, but he loves me. He came AT me last night. I was on the defense.
I need examples of how to deal with him. He's treating me like a doormat. How am I supposed to give him affirmation and make him feel good? All he does is trample all over my heart.
short and to the point, non emotional.
Write it out, submit it here, and allow the people here to tear it to pieces and put it back together is the way to go I think.
GOT IT! And was my letter epic because it was like a novel, or because it was profound? Not that it matters since he dismissed it in his state of anger, which just got worse when the ex gf called him yesterday.
I will work on the letter after my appointment with my therapist tomorrow. H is coming to get the kids and then dropping them off after my appointment. Tomorrow is also the day he said he was going to see an attorney, so I wonder if he will. It's his day off, and who knows what he'll do after how angry and "done" he was last night.
epic because with all he is dealing with, anything over 10 sentences isn't going to go well. It was the same thing with my wife. You misword something and it goes poorly, and with a letter that long, something is going to hit wrong.
1. Too long (just like an epic is)
2. Too emotional
3. Too placating (towards him)
4. Too groveling (towards him)
5. Too much of "What can I do to make everything better for you and keep being your doormat."
Sorry but that is how I read it. You came across as desperate, not as a strong woman who is not going to tolerate his BS.
I am sorry if that comes across as harsh but it'd do you better to tell him what you WON'T accept and what you WILL accept and keep it short and sweet. Stop giving him all your power. Take your power back.
Thats why I suggested being clear and concise. No misunderstandings. Especially since you are considering changing how you act towards him. You need to be clear WHY and consistent in telling him how you feel.
What would hopefully happen is he would have the space and time and clear signals that he has made these decisions, and then chose what his next move is. Hopefully his next move is to fix his depression first and then think clearly about what happened and why.
The poster talked about keeping clear boundaries, and if those are crossed backing it up with an action. Make it clear and concise how you feel. Through the fog of depression, the only thing you hear is the actions, clear and consistent (repeated or written down) boundaries and consequences.
You very well may need to treat you husband similar to how people treat addicts. Protect yourself, stay strong, keep solid boundaries, tell them they can come back to your life when they are clean, and be hopeful that one day their loving SO may return, but enabling them to hurt you or continue with unhealthly actions is a thing of the past.
You're right, we can't keep going like this. It's getting worse and worse by the second. And according to him he is done with it all. He did everything but saying the actual word. When I think back to him saying he wanted to separate "because we stand a better chance apart than together right now" he acted like he wanted us to work. But he never did anything. It's been 3 1/2 weeks and it's done nothing but go downhill. He says we needed a cool down period, but how long is that before ANYTHING gets initiated?
He's seemed to pass the stage of sadness and is now more angry than anything. Makes me wonder if this is really depression or if it's all been THE fog from the EA that he insists doesn't exist. I'll look for that post on dealing with depression. I don't know what boundaries to put forth? And will this be seen as controlling or a b!tch move that just irks him more? That's why I haven't changed the locks, although I don't want him here when I'm not here.
I'm not sure how I should change how I act towards him. I'm pretty much going no contact except texts regarding the kids. I told him in the original letter I was pulling back. I feel like I have done everything I could. I've changed, I've self-reflected, but to him I'm just this crazy irrational suspicious wife. And if this EA is happening, I've come too close to home for him and almost found out. Or rocked the boat between the two of them. If no EA, that's where this is just plain hurtful. Even if he's depressed, his whole thing has been about "not hurting me anymore".
I get the consistency, but how do I constantly let him know that "I'm here if he'd like to go to marriage counseling, I love you, and I would like our marriage to work" without sounding desperate? Especially if I say it in a letter or email and then we keep up with NC? And it's like I can't even elude to anything about the OW, because it drives him running the other way. It seems I also need to make clear how his actions have affected me. Do I also apologize for my snooping? I need to figure out what to say to him and how. I think he's sick of my letters, tbh.
I have lots of support from friends. I don't really have time or means to find a local group. But I have 2 good friends that talk me down from the crazy behaviors, well most of 'em.
I thank you again, anx. I'm at the end of my rope with barely a thread hanging on. I just can't see coming back from this, but I still don't get him one bit.
epic because with all he is dealing with, anything over 10 sentences isn't going to go well. It was the same thing with my wife. You misword something and it goes poorly, and with a letter that long, something is going to hit wrong.
Yeah, I was afraid of that. But I needed to pour my heart out one last time I guess. It was hard to validate his feelings and state my side. I wonder what he took wrong that really struck a nerve after the previous night where I met him at his parents and had rang the ex gf. Which was a disaster. Never seen him so mad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellybeans
It was epic because it was
1. Too long (just like an epic is)
2. Too emotional
3. Too placating (towards him)
4. Too groveling (towards him)
5. Too much of "What can I do to make everything better for you and keep being your doormat."
Sorry but that is how I read it. You came across as desperate, not as a strong woman who is not going to tolerate his BS.
I am sorry if that comes across as harsh but it'd do you better to tell him what you WON'T accept and what you WILL accept and keep it short and sweet. Stop giving him all your power. Take your power back.
I love ya, Jelly. I understand. It was emotional, and heartfelt. I needed to get it all out. He knows where I stand now. And the fact that he responded the way he did tells me that my feelings don't matter. So, you're right. I can't be a doormat anymore. This next letter will be a hard one to write. How do I tell him I can't tolerate his BS without coming off b!tchy?
What is wrong with saying "that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first" and "when you cool off we need to discuss some things"? He was cursing at me like crazy and basically speaking at me like I was his child. He did treat me unfairly and did not put my needs first. He knows this. If he is in an EA or not, it's still the case. I have told him time and time again how uncomfortable I was with him being friends with her. He was selfish about it and insisted that it was nothing and just expected me to believe him and accept all the lies. Even after he was caught. And right now, he's also not putting my feelings first, as he's worried about how he looks to her and not to me. What would have been the best way to respond? And most of our conversations are about how he is so emotionally drained and can't do anything to commit to this marriage, but he loves me. He came AT me last night. I was on the defense.
I need examples of how to deal with him. He's treating me like a doormat. How am I supposed to give him affirmation and make him feel good? All he does is trample all over my heart.
What is wrong is that - just as YOU have reacted to HIS condemning words - the instant you start with saying things like 'you need to cool off' or 'you did this wrong,' THEY STOP LISTENING. Understand? You just told me that YOU were on the defensive. Do you not think that he feels the exact same way every time you tell him what he's doing wrong?
ONE of you has to get smart about this and follow a plan, instead of just reacting to each other and creating a War of the Roses. You'll never get what you want that way.
Look, YOU want this marriage right now. HE doesn't.
Therefore, YOU have to be smarter about how you're dealing with him. Calm. Wise. Fetching. Full of self-respect. Willing to walk away if he won't treat you with dignity and respect.
THAT is the woman who will get his attention, to whom he will listen.
Not the one he's used to, who tells him how screwed up he is, what he's doing wrong, and how much he offends you.
Rise above the fog babble. Be smarter.
Know your goals and don't deviate from them. Talk ONLY about your goals and how/if he can meet them. Be humble enough to ask him what it would take from YOU for him to feel safe with you. And at the same time, maintain your points - "I will not share you with another woman, friend or not. When you tell her intimate thoughts and feelings that you should be sharing with your wife, it is emotional cheating, and I can't live in that kind of marriage. Let me know when you want to recommit to our marriage, and I'll be glad to talk about what BOTH of us need in this marriage. I'm ready to do MY part to make this a better marriage; are you?"
As for how to deal with him, simply state your boundaries, and GIVE HIM CONSEQUENCES when he oversteps those boundaries. "I will not be yelled at. Call me back when you're ready to talk without namecalling." And hang up.
I use thousands of SMS a month - but for information etc. If I need to talk to someone I will talk to them. Email, sms, voicemail is just more ways to screen out people.
Don't have a problem with that myself
Quote:
What next? People here already complain about facebook battles. I don't if that 's sad or funny. Maybe both. There's a French word for that, chantepleure.
If you want to write a new letter, we'll edit/critique it for you.
Stating your boundaries and what you'll put up with IS NOT the same as being *****y. It involves being a person who knows what they want out of life. There is nothing more respectable than a person who respects themselves (hello, redunancy) LOL
If you want to write a new letter, we'll edit/critique it for you.
Stating your boundaries and what you'll put up with IS NOT the same as being *****y. It involves being a person who knows what they want out of life. There is nothing more respectable than a person who respects themselves (hello, redunancy) LOL
This FTW.
Too many good people here who offer their help, no strings attached, to turn sown the offers...
What is wrong is that - just as YOU have reacted to HIS condemning words - the instant you start with saying things like 'you need to cool off' or 'you did this wrong,' THEY STOP LISTENING. Understand? You just told me that YOU were on the defensive. Do you not think that he feels the exact same way every time you tell him what he's doing wrong?
ONE of you has to get smart about this and follow a plan, instead of just reacting to each other and creating a War of the Roses. You'll never get what you want that way.
Look, YOU want this marriage right now. HE doesn't.
Therefore, YOU have to be smarter about how you're dealing with him. Calm. Wise. Fetching. Full of self-respect. Willing to walk away if he won't treat you with dignity and respect.
THAT is the woman who will get his attention, to whom he will listen.
Not the one he's used to, who tells him how screwed up he is, what he's doing wrong, and how much he offends you.
Rise above the fog babble. Be smarter.
Know your goals and don't deviate from them. Talk ONLY about your goals and how/if he can meet them. Be humble enough to ask him what it would take from YOU for him to feel safe with you. And at the same time, maintain your points - "I will not share you with another woman, friend or not. When you tell her intimate thoughts and feelings that you should be sharing with your wife, it is emotional cheating, and I can't live in that kind of marriage. Let me know when you want to recommit to our marriage, and I'll be glad to talk about what BOTH of us need in this marriage. I'm ready to do MY part to make this a better marriage; are you?"
As for how to deal with him, simply state your boundaries, and GIVE HIM CONSEQUENCES when he oversteps those boundaries. "I will not be yelled at. Call me back when you're ready to talk without namecalling." And hang up.
I guess maybe I'm not getting how to give him consequences, set boundaries, and not tell him what he is doing to me? I really tried last night to just defend myself without attacking him, I did. But damn he was vicious.
I can tell you right now, if I said to him (or wrote) what you wrote he would just say "No, I don't have anything left to give." And he would flip out because I mentioned another woman. And for stating boundaries, it isn't like ahead of time boundaries? It's just in the moment? I guess there are both types. "I will not be second best. Let me know when you'd like to make your wife a priority."
I sit and wonder what would have happened if I ignored his text yesterday or told him that once he calmed down we could talk. He made it sound like he was going to explode if he didn't vent it all to me. But he had to have gotten more worked up texting me.
I really wish he wanted to save this. He's said he wants to, but doesn't know how. Has no energy to try anything, etc. Wah.
If you want to write a new letter, we'll edit/critique it for you.
Stating your boundaries and what you'll put up with IS NOT the same as being *****y. It involves being a person who knows what they want out of life. There is nothing more respectable than a person who respects themselves (hello, redunancy) LOL
I appreciate it. I know it has to be short and to the point. That's the hard part!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankshaw
This FTW.
Too many good people here who offer their help, no strings attached, to turn sown the offers...
Gotcha! I didn't put the last letter here first because I had no time. I felt like I had to get it to him before Sunday and it took me ALL day to write it. I need to let him cool down before I push anything else at him. That is, if he doesn't file for divorce tomorrow.
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Re: Now what? "I love you and I always will..." 
