First of all. It is never right to keep someone from doing what they love doing. Everybody needs their own interests!
Personally the money thing would have been a deal breaker for me. I personally think, you are in this together, no matter who is paying how much yadda yadda....and REQUIRING you to buy her expensive gifts to be happy is ridiculous. (and yes I too am female) I would NEVER make my husband buy me something expensive, hell I even told him how to get my wedding set for a REALLY good deal (it was originally $1400 and I found it slightly used same exact set for $500) and am just as happy as if he bought it brand new. We put all of our money in one place, pay all the bills from it, then with the leftover we talk about what we want to do.... we get to do our own things with it too. But everything is talked about and no issue ever comes up about who is paying more for what blah blah blah.
ANYHOW. The post before this one listed some good books for saving relationships, I have some too These 3 are all by Gary Chapman, they are The 5 love languages: how to express heartfelt committment to your mate, the 5 languages of apology: how to experiences healing in all your relationships, and A couple's guide to a growing marriage.
Good luck in whatever route you take! I hope everything works out for the best.
An interesting mix of opinions here. Thank you to everyone who has offered advice.
I'll read the recommended books, but I don't think it'll make much difference since she isn't willing to work on the marriage.
She still hasn't responded to the flowers/card/dinner invitation I left her, which I know she received because I left them on the kitchen table. Her silence speaks volumes.
I think the signs of her "tendencies" were there early, I just ignored them. There was the deal with the wedding ring. And this: When we started planning the day-to-day details of our marriage, we discussed pooling our money. No hers and mine, just ours. But she did not want to be responsible for any part of my child support obligation to my ex-wife. Plus she felt that, with me moving in to her house with my two boys, I should pay 2/3 of the water and electric bills. I refused. She also wanted me to pay her half the cost of renovating the basement for her home office, which freed up 2 upstairs bedrooms to be used as the boys' bedrooms. Again, I refused. That's another grudge she has held against me. ANyway, you can see where our money issues arose. In the end, we decided to keep our money separate and each pay half for the household bills. But when my business downturned and I couldn't pay my half, she got very resentful. But you guys already know that story.
Typing this out now, I can only say WTF???? What kind of marriage is that? WHy have I been fooling myself these last 3 1/2 years that we had a marriage? We had a business arrangement!!
Reading some of the other threads in this section, it saddens me how easily my wife is willing to make me leave the houase and end the marriage. I read threads about people with spouses with drinking/drug issues, temper issues, pot-smoking laziness issues, and yet the other spouse is still trying to save the marriage. And our issues are so much less than that, yet she's not willing to go to counseling or work on things. I've fixed what she asked me to fix (make more money, make more time for us, etc.) but it doesn't make any difference.
I'll see her Friday when I pick up the dog for the weekend. If she still isn't willing to take a step forward, I'm filing. I'm done with this nonsense.
It does sound as though your marriage was on shaky ground from the start. I am always one of the first to recommend against divorce. However, it does take two people to work on a marriage. And in your case, there's only one person making an effort. Your conscience should be clear; you tried! I am curious about one thing though. If she wanted you out of the house so bad and won't have anything to do with you, why won't she just file for divorce? What is she waiting on?
Has she admitted that she is upset regarding some of the financial decisions?
Oh, yes! That's been the basis for so much of our discord. She HATED being the primary breadwinner (a situation I exacerbated by focusing more on my bike racing than on helping her through her busy time, but I've apologized over and over for that). She hared being the only one of us saving money for the future - but I fixed that, so you'd think she'd be happy. Instead, she still *****es about it.
I am curious about one thing though. If she wanted you out of the house so bad and won't have anything to do with you, why won't she just file for divorce? What is she waiting on?
I wish you could tell me> I haven't a clue. When we last spoke, she said something about being happy with our current situation, and wanting to give me time to get used to our situation. She said she did not look forward to being divorced again. Sounds like she wants out, right?
So I point blank asked her, "Are you telling me there's nothing I can do to fix things?," and she wouldn't answer. I asked if she was waiting for me to file, and she again wouldn't answer. So she's giving me mixed messages. When I again suggested counseling, she said there are some things counseling can't fix. And there's the matter of her total non-response to the flowers and dinner invitation. How rude and disrespectful! Even saying "thanks for the flowers, but I'm not having dinner with you" would be the decent thing to do.
She may be "happy with our situation" but it's killing me. I'm tired of reacting to her and waiting for her. So Friday, she either agrees to try in some way, any way, something, or I'm done. We're likely done anyway, because I feel such anger and lack of trust toward her anyway.
Not only does she seem selfish but it almost points to her playing you. Maybe you haven't gotten her hint that she wants you to buy your way into the relationship. (sorry that is what it sounds like to me.)
KYGuy - from what you have written your wife definitely sounds very controlling & seems to find fault with everything.
I am sure you were doing things to try to make her happy as that is what "good" husbands do - right? But she seems impossible to make happy - no matter how hard you try.
Now that you are out of the situation, you seem to be able to see more clearly the situation, as you were able to take a step back & really evaluate the situation. In the begining you were so worried about moving out & losing her & now you are realizing that you may not want that life back.
You mentioned this is your 2nd marriage & not looking forward to being divorced again. How much of a factor do you think that is in your decision making process?
My husband & I have been seperated for 6 months now. And having the time apart has really helped to "step back" & really look at our relationship and most importantly figure out what is going to make me happy. In the past, I put all others before me in making decisions.
So maybe/possibly/by some remote chance - by seperating you wife might come to realize what she has lost. Someone above said when she hit rock bottom - when she realizes that you are not there for her & catering to her every need. Maybe she might appreciate you more when you are not there. But if you do go back - make sure it is for the right reasons & that you each have an understanding of what you are both willing to put into the marriage.
There seems to be a heavy emphasis on the financial situation - you splitting bills, vacations, etc. Maybe if you had a joint account that you both contribute to that might help? If needed, you agree to take a certain amount from each paycheck into your own personal account to do what you please. But if your money is together - maybe there won't be so much fighting over it. And she may have to reconsider her expensive taste because she may be footing the bill??
Not sure if that was helpful - best wishes & take time on your own to decide what you want. Not what she wants.
Thanks to all who have responded. I carefully read and think about each post.
Here's the latest:
We had a two-hour talk last night at my insistence. I simply cannot remain in limbo anymore, and I told her that either she show me in some way that she wants to work on the marriage, or I am calling it quits.
We began discussing how ridiculous it would be to pay thousands of $$$ to lawyers to fight our battles, and how much more sensible it would be to negotiate our own terms and then pay a lawyer $400 to file the papers and be done with it. And we agreed to not try to screw each other out of money. She mentioned the hot tub and a few other items that we bought which will stay at her house, and how we'd determine the fair-market value and she would pay me half.
So far, so good.
Then she brings up again how, before I moved in, she paid to have the basement renovated as her home office, freeing up 2 bedrooms for my boys, and that I still owed her half that money. And I said that she stood to benefit from the improvement to the house, and no way was I going to pay for improvements to a house that would not be mine. And I said she owed me for the half of her car payments I've been making for the past 4 years, and she said she wasn't obligated to pay me that. So now we're at a sticking point.
Then I asked her why she totally ignored the flowers and card and dinner invitation I left for her birthday and she said she ignored them because she was hurt that I took the cheap way out of giving her a birthday gift. That if I was really interested in saving the relationship I'd have given her something with a little more thought behind it.
Okay -- am I right in thinking that her statement confirms my worst fears about her greedy me-me-me attitude???? Because I thought my gift was just right considering the current state of our relationship. Several of my female friends also thought my gift was perfect.
Anyway, we touched on a few more issues, and then almost crying she said that she really didn't want to rush into any decision right now and could I please just back off a bit. She said she really wanted to think about some of the things I said. She said she still felt a lot of love for me. I guess that's something I've wanted to hear because I got choked up too, and I said we didn't have to rush into a decision now, but I need to know that she is at least working toward some kind of resolution and not just coasting.
So that's where we are now. We're going to wash the dog together tomorrow (Monday), which will be the first time we've actually done something together in 5 weeks.
I still don't know if we're going to be able to work things out -- I may truly be coming to realize that she is not who I thought she was. I don't know.
As always, I'd love to read any feedback/comments.
At least the seperation has given you perspective on the situation. It also seems to me that money is still her key concern here. Maybe tomorrow will feel out a few things for both of you.
She told me that she finds bald men unattractive and that if I lost much of my hair she wanted me to get hair plugs. Yet, when she contemplated getting breast implants, I told her to do what made her happy, but I really didn't want her to have unnecessary surgery.
I don't know what to do. Help!!
y'know, i've been following this thread for a while. you know what my self destructive evil side would do? shave my freaking head and buy her a padded bra. inside one of the cups i'd place a nice diamond bracelet. now, is she happy? message sent. i know you love her, your words prove that. but do you love yourself?
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
Not only does she seem selfish but it almost points to her playing you. Maybe you haven't gotten her hint that she wants you to buy your way into the relationship. (sorry that is what it sounds like to me.)
draconis
agreed do what is best for yourself. Not enough people do that.
I did what was best for me and divorced my husband who I caught cheating and finally ended it. I was so upset though at the ordeal, I decided to sell the diamond engagement ring he bought me to I Do Now I Don't so I could have some closure. Serves him right.
As my name implies - I am a believer in marriage & do think you need exhaust all your options before you make the final - no going back decision of divorce.
so maybe for once your wife might be right to not rush into things, this will be a life changing experience for both of you & sounds like you've already been through one divorce already.
I can completely understand the "not wanting to be in limbo" but you need to take time to get some perspective on your situation. which I think this seperation has definitley be able to give you.
I think it is a positive that she mentioned - lets think this through however, if & when you decide to work on things. It won't be an easy road ahead & think especially for your wife - she will need to come down off her "high horse" & be happy with what she has - not always thinking she deserves better.
Take time to make the right decision - one that you feel is best for YOU.
she said she ignored them because she was hurt that I took the cheap way out of giving her a birthday gift.
This just sounds so manipulative to me. After reading the 5 Love Languages, I understand that some people feel loved by receiving gifts but when she expects you to put it above financial stability & puts a price tag on what you should give her it just seems off the deep end to me. I'm a 45 yr old wife (2nd marriage) and I think the flowers and card were a totally appropriate gesture considering the state of your marriage.
I'm glad you are both backing off on any immediate decisions but in the meantime, I think you should also take stock of what you need from the marriage and if she really wants to make it work, she will need to compromise as well. I can understand the complications with child support, but couldn't you pool your income and give her a separate check equal to child support to do with as she wishes?
Has she admitted that she is upset regarding some of the financial decisions?
Oh, yes! That's been the basis for so much of our discord. She HATED being the primary breadwinner (a situation I exacerbated by focusing more on my bike racing than on helping her through her busy time, but I've apologized over and over for that). She hared being the only one of us saving money for the future - but I fixed that, so you'd think she'd be happy. Instead, she still *****es about it.
I am curious about one thing though. If she wanted you out of the house so bad and won't have anything to do with you, why won't she just file for divorce? What is she waiting on?
I wish you could tell me> I haven't a clue. When we last spoke, she said something about being happy with our current situation, and wanting to give me time to get used to our situation. She said she did not look forward to being divorced again. Sounds like she wants out, right?
So I point blank asked her, "Are you telling me there's nothing I can do to fix things?," and she wouldn't answer. I asked if she was waiting for me to file, and she again wouldn't answer. So she's giving me mixed messages. When I again suggested counseling, she said there are some things counseling can't fix. And there's the matter of her total non-response to the flowers and dinner invitation. How rude and disrespectful! Even saying "thanks for the flowers, but I'm not having dinner with you" would be the decent thing to do.
She may be "happy with our situation" but it's killing me. I'm tired of reacting to her and waiting for her. So Friday, she either agrees to try in some way, any way, something, or I'm done. We're likely done anyway, because I feel such anger and lack of trust toward her anyway.
it does seem like you have some anxiety trying to please her...do this...write down 3-5 things per day that you are happy/thankful for...this is an excercise my counselor had me do...be honest with your list...it can be anything...if mcdonalds french fries make you happy today, write it down...
what you find out is if your wife pops up too many times(if you write "she said i love you", "she brought me lunch" "she didn't get pissed at me when i picked up the dog")...you are putting your happiness in her hands...that will cause you undue anxiety...anxiety leads to stress...stress kills...
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice here. I appreciate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voivod
i know you love her, your words prove that. but do you love yourself?
I've been thinking a lot about that myself. Yes, I do love myself. And I'm neither self-destructive nor depressed. Probably just a bit unsure of myself, to be honest. And not real fond of the prospect of having to date again at age 51.
It's been a week and we are in stasis. No change. We've talked a bit, but not about our situation. Actually, when I stopped by to pick up the dog (we share him) yesterday, we talked about day-to-day stuff and it was very nice and pleasant, like we used to be. That's the relationship I miss, and that I grieve for. Because, until now, I could forgive and forget the selfish/greedy aspects of her personality.
No more.
We're going to have to resume our talk and figure out how to end things, because I don't see us getting back together without her making some major changes in attitude and perspective. And that's not likely.
And, there is nobody in my circle of family/friends who think I would be making a mistake by ending it. My entire family, and most of my friends, really liked my wife before all this. Now, nobody can figure her out.
Re: End it... or worth saving?
These 3 are all by Gary Chapman, they are The 5 love languages: how to express heartfelt committment to your mate, the 5 languages of apology: how to experiences healing in all your relationships, and A couple's guide to a growing marriage.
