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post #31 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 07:49 PM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

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Like I said I appreciate what you guys all have to say and I am asking for advice but its sooo hard when I have close friends, family and her family (aside from her drunk cousin) who all uell me I'm being rediculous for thinking she's seeing someone. I dont know who to listen to anymore.
You have to make your own decision and listen. Family and friends are almost always blind or they know more than they are willing to tell.

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post #32 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

Thanks again everyone. As far as financial support. She works part time at the school so she has been living off of that small income and her credit card. The only thing I'm still paying for is car insurance and our phone bill, she has student loans out in her name and her name only so thank god for that. I think in the last 2 weeks she's used our joint account for like $15 at a grocery store. I will certainly take in all that you guys are saying, all of what my friends and family are saying and begin the process of where do I go from here. I guess right now as in today or even this week my head isn't in the right spot to make any big time decisions. I sort of let her have it today when we were texting so I'm hoping that she at least is starting to see that I'm not going to be in limbo much longer but I do know that if things don't change soon It'll have to be me that cuts ties.

I've lost 25lbs since this all started partially from stress and not eating and partially from my new working out routine hopefully that'll help me feel better about myself and relieve at least a bit of stress.

Also, I'll keep my updates to this thread so its easier to follow. Sorry about that I'm still a newbie.
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post #33 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 08:30 PM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

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When we spoke this morning I told her I dont agree with seeing other people during separation. She then said again that she isnt seeing someone else and I also said I wasnt seeing anyone else. I made it pretty damn clear this morning to her that I do not agree with that thought but I am not prepared enough yet mentally to have the final "showdown" and give her the its my way or the highway talk. Hell I dont even know fully what I want yet.

I know most of you have had experience in situations like this and you have your suspicions based on my posts but knowing who I am and where I'm at with all of this I know that right now I am not prepared to sit down and tell her the bottom line. She wants her space and I've given that to her, now I feel like I am ready to take advantage of that space and do things for myself and when I'm ready and feeling strong and confident I'll lay it all out on the table.

As for the phone bill, I've looked at that damn thing almost every day the past couple weeks and have found nothing unusual. Literally all the numbers she sends/receives texts to or calls/receives calls are the girls in her study group, family, friends that she has been talking to for years. Theres one guy from her school that she texts within the same study group text conversations and he likes guys soo...

I honestly think she made those comments about acting "single" while separated because she wants to be single right now and see if she can handle life without me, does that mean she's found someone else already...I personally dont think so right now but what it does seem to me is that she wants to make herself feel okay with the fact in case she does meet someone while we are separated. And that is just as bad in my mind.

Like I said I appreciate what you guys all have to say and I am asking for advice but its sooo hard when I have close friends, family and her family (aside from her drunk cousin) who all tell me I'm being rediculous for thinking she's seeing someone. I dont know who to listen to anymore.
She wants to act "single" has little to do with seeing if she handle life without you. She is seeing a new world out there and wants to explore it. Whether she is seeing someone now or has her eye on someone is a matter of debate but one or the other is highly likely.

This is often the trap of separations, one waits and one has "fun". Hypothetically say she agrees to not see anyone during this separation then breaks it what are you going to do? File for divorce? She isn't working on the marriage and doesn't want to, the very generalities of why you state the separation started, the growing apart etc is exactly what you both are doing now.

Does where you live have any rules about a year long separation, things like that in order to file for divorce? You stated in a different post I believe you said she moved in with her Mom. Are you sure? My stbx used that same line even though she was living with her boyfriend.

You state she is in medical school and spend large amounts of time devoted to that and work. If she is seeing someone or has her eye on someone its going to be a classmate. Given the amount of time she is spending with these people she probably isn't using the phone too much. You probably wont find too much via phone records or online activity.

Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday
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post #34 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 12:52 AM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

Honcho is right of course. it's probably a classmate.

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I've lost 25lbs since this all started partially from stress and not eating and partially from my new working out routine hopefully that'll help me feel better about myself and relieve at least a bit of stress.
Good! You need to build muscle. TAM had a guy named Mach who talked about the roots of female desire. A v-shaped torso turns them on.

No doubt if you got a promotion or a spot in prestigious grad school program, she might well feel you were rising in sex ranking. If you were photographed with an attractive woman who has social standing and she clicked like on your Facebook stuff, she might feel jealousy.

What is going to attract her back to you? Nostalgia? She is not in love or lust. She is studying, meeting her classmates and blocking you out. She may or may not be sexually active with another man, but she is not longing for you.
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post #35 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 05:35 AM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

So all she has done is move out? No counseling, no dating (you), no sex(with you)? Are you having discussions in person? There is no real point in a texting, calling relationship. For example, when she talked about dating other people and being "single", you have no idea what she really meant. 80% of human communication is visual in a conversation. You have to be able to see their face and body language to see what is really going on.
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post #36 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 07:19 AM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

Do some semblance of the 180 - this will help you detach. She clearly wants a separation. Give it to her. Stop the phone calls, check ins and minimize your texts. Remember that women and men communicate differently. She's not going to decide to talk and come to the table with a plan to fix or a contract of renewal. Actions are more important, and from what you've divulged of her actions, it appears she's leaving and not returning.

Set boundaries - not ultimatums. Ultimatums force someone to do your will and they come from a position of weakness. She has choices and so do you. Exercise your choices. If you don't like limbo, take steps not to be in limbo. Stop waiting for her to run this thing.

Dedicate your time to yourself. The only thing you have control over is you. Invest good stuff into you - whatever capacity you have.

When going through hell - don't stop. - Winston Churchill
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post #37 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 07:41 AM
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Feeling like crap today with separation

Right now you are on a schedule to meet as members of the wedding. The best shock you can give her is divorce papers when you meet in person.

At that meeting make eye contact, tell her you have present for her, hand her them and smile. In your own mind get psyched to say goodbye as if you were Paul Neumann or Clint Eastwood. Leave the stage decisively.

Move on as if you were certain that your life will be good with or without her. There is some small chance that in a few weeks time she will miss you and reach out. You might get sucked in and dumped again. Extra pain.

If she begs to see you, okay maybe she wants your marriage.

Her future may turn out to be more or less happy. In 7 years time she maybe futilely seeking IVF treatment while married to a man whose eyes go distant more and often the longer they are together.

One of the key things that you have shared is this:

Quote:
Aside from that while talking to my wife today she said it again that she is not seeing anyone right now and then proceeded to say but we are separated and that she consideres that as being somewhat single. She says to me that if I go on dates or meet another women that she doesnt want to know about it but I dont feel the same way. I'm not doign this separation deal so that we can go out and date people. I konw alot of you will read this post and say oh she's definately seeing another man maybe she is but the one thing that her and I always had was honesty. But now she is acting like just because we are separated that we dont have to know everything about what each other is doing.
There is no such thing as "somewhat single". She considers herself a free agent and this discussion was unambiguous. Your inability to actually set down some boundary at this point rendered you powerless in her eyes.

In some way she is honest she does not dare to live with you and openly bring home lovers or sleep over so that you know she is in someone else's bed. She is not flaunting it in your face. Her infidelity is implied.

Filing for divorce will probably not get her back but there is some chance that it will change her opinion of you.

Last edited by LongWalk; 06-02-2015 at 12:18 PM.
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post #38 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

Okay so I got a private message from my wifes best friend last night with whom I have been really close to as well since high school before I even met my wife. She made me swear I wouldnt tell my wife that we were talking, we were like best friends for years so it was good to hear from her. She was basically checking up to see if I was okay. I asked her straight up if my wife was seeing someone else or if someone else was in the picture when we separated. She said absolutely not and swore on everything that nothing was going on with another guy. She basically told me what my wife told me the last time we talked. She wants to be out there on her own sort of like proving to herself that she can survive without someone supporting her. She told me my wife seems like she still needs more time which I already knew that but also told me that she was doing better in school and recently got promoted from a TA to TA director. She told me my wife seems happy and that she is so focused on school and her part time work that she isnt even thinking about our marriage right now other than seeing a counselor once every other week which she's been doing for months anyway before we separated.

With that said everytime I do talk to my wife which I havent in a couple days because I'm trying the whole 180 approach she doesnt indicate ANYTHING as far as a time frame of when she wants to work on things or even if she wants to. I'm so lost and confused. Do I go for the legal separation next? I'm slowly starting to work on myself but it's so hard waking up everyday alone especially when I feel like she is thriving without me. I'm starting to realize that she has changed A LOT over the past year and is someone I dont even know anymore. I've done all the digging I can to find out if there is someone else and I havent come up with any evidence at all! But I cant stop thinking about the possibility. The whole "we're basically single" comment she made is just imbedded into my mind. I really feel like she has checked out and her telling me "we're basically single" is her making herself feel okay if someone better does come along while were separated. I dont know how to move forward from here. Everytime I take one step forward I feel like I take two steps back.
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post #39 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 01:07 PM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

The only way through this, is to go through this. Set a deadline for your limbo. 60-90 days is a good start. That gives your 180 time to sink in (mostly for you) and gives you an opportunity to think things through, detach emotionally, gan perspective and take control. In that timeframe, focus on your work, hobbies and friendships. I think of this as a firmware update. You have extra time to eat well, work out (lift weights) and take care of yourself. At the end of this period, your firmware is updated and you have better tools and perspective to move forward in a less attached and emotional manner - a newer you from a position of strength. Battling this now when you are feeling low, emotional and reactive is bad juju.

It will be hard and you will feel anguish at times. Breaking up is usually hard to do. You've been given a lot of good advice on this thread and eventually it will sink in. You have limited bandwidth right now to take in the fire hose of perspective you have been given.

You need to be in self-survival mode. Live incrementally - day by day, hour by hour, whatever it takes. its fine to feel sad and process that for yourself, but don't show it to her. You don't want or need pity. You need strength. Get a breakup buddy - a male friend of yours who will listen to you vent about the separation and be a sounding board if you take it to divorce. Do not confide or seek comfort from your wife. Unhook your emotional hose from her. You need to meet all of your own needs. You can do this. You did it before she was in your life.

You seem to be your wife's plan B or C. That speaks volumes. She has checked out and has given you permission to date other women. Get an appointment with a lawyer to at least find out what the process is and your rights are in your state/prov. They will tell you about separation and divorce in your locality.

When going through hell - don't stop. - Winston Churchill
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post #40 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 01:15 PM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

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I talked to my wife today about some problems I had with how our separation is going. We are coming on to week 4 and have yet to discuss a timeline or plan as to when/how we can try and fix things. She still doesn't know when she'll be ready to work on things or go the other route. I told her how mad I've been lately feeling like we are just in a state of limbo with all of this and she says she understands and is sorry but she isn't ready to make any decisions yet.

It's hard because she is considerably more busy than I am since she is in med school right now and I just work a normal 9-5 job. I understand that its going to take her longer to figure out what she wants to do but it's not easy. I also understand that we are in a real separation but I'm really struggling to keep a positive routine going without her in my life. One day I have thoughts of "screw this I'm tired of waiting around for her" then I have I thoughts of "I will do anything to reconcile no matter how long it takes".

My question I guess is how long is too long for a separation??
She just wants you to continue paying her expenses at Med School for as long as she can get you to do it. It would be best for you to divorce her now.

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post #41 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

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The only way through this, is to go through this. Set a deadline for your limbo. 60-90 days is a good start. That gives your 180 time to sink in (mostly for you) and gives you an opportunity to think things through, detach emotionally, gan perspective and take control. In that timeframe, focus on your work, hobbies and friendships. I think of this as a firmware update. You have extra time to eat well, work out (lift weights) and take care of yourself. At the end of this period, your firmware is updated and you have better tools and perspective to move forward in a less attached and emotional manner - a newer you from a position of strength. Battling this now when you are feeling low, emotional and reactive is bad juju.

It will be hard and you will feel anguish at times. Breaking up is usually hard to do. You've been given a lot of good advice on this thread and eventually it will sink in. You have limited bandwidth right now to take in the fire hose of perspective you have been given.

You need to be in self-survival mode. Live incrementally - day by day, hour by hour, whatever it takes. its fine to feel sad and process that for yourself, but don't show it to her. You don't want or need pity. You need strength. Get a breakup buddy - a male friend of yours who will listen to you vent about the separation and be a sounding board if you take it to divorce. Do not confide or seek comfort from your wife. Unhook your emotional hose from her. You need to meet all of your own needs. You can do this. You did it before she was in your life.

You seem to be your wife's plan B or C. That speaks volumes. She has checked out and has given you permission to date other women. Get an appointment with a lawyer to at least find out what the process is and your rights are in your state/prov. They will tell you about separation and divorce in your locality.
Thanks for your commments/advice. I do have a very close buddy that has been a life saver to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if I'm reaching out to him too much. Anyway I do have plans within the next couple weeks to talk to a lawyer about my options. I've started golfing again, working out and just doign things that normally would have been judged by my wife. Sometimes I feel awesome that I can basically do whatever I want right now but then the memories come back (hard to fight).
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post #42 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 01:26 PM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

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Okay so I got a private message from my wifes best friend last night with whom I have been really close to as well since high school before I even met my wife. She made me swear I wouldnt tell my wife that we were talking, we were like best friends for years so it was good to hear from her. She was basically checking up to see if I was okay. I asked her straight up if my wife was seeing someone else or if someone else was in the picture when we separated. She said absolutely not and swore on everything that nothing was going on with another guy. She basically told me what my wife told me the last time we talked. She wants to be out there on her own sort of like proving to herself that she can survive without someone supporting her. She told me my wife seems like she still needs more time which I already knew that but also told me that she was doing better in school and recently got promoted from a TA to TA director. She told me my wife seems happy and that she is so focused on school and her part time work that she isnt even thinking about our marriage right now other than seeing a counselor once every other week which she's been doing for months anyway before we separated.

With that said everytime I do talk to my wife which I havent in a couple days because I'm trying the whole 180 approach she doesnt indicate ANYTHING as far as a time frame of when she wants to work on things or even if she wants to. I'm so lost and confused. Do I go for the legal separation next? I'm slowly starting to work on myself but it's so hard waking up everyday alone especially when I feel like she is thriving without me. I'm starting to realize that she has changed A LOT over the past year and is someone I dont even know anymore. I've done all the digging I can to find out if there is someone else and I havent come up with any evidence at all! But I cant stop thinking about the possibility. The whole "we're basically single" comment she made is just imbedded into my mind. I really feel like she has checked out and her telling me "we're basically single" is her making herself feel okay if someone better does come along while were separated. I dont know how to move forward from here. Everytime I take one step forward I feel like I take two steps back.
OK dude.

There are two options here.

Option one is that everything is as she says. No other dude and this is a giant mind-**** on her behalf to prove to herself that she can stand on her own. While you stand there like a gentleman with the door held open for her to return.

That basically means that she is a child and you are her safety net. Safety nets get used when people fall. If she doesn't fall, she's gone. And if she returns, it will be with a new game plan to not fall next time.

And you will still be there with your hat in hand standing on a giant welcome mat, right?

What you have to do is take away the safety net.

The other option, of course, is that she isn't telling this friend.

My ex didn't tell ANYONE including her best friend that she was f'ing this other guy. It came out after we were separated and she went on a double date with the new guy and the new guy slipped up and talked about things they had done together on such and such a date... which was when we were still together.

So don't expect the truth.

What you have to do in that situation is the same as the first.

Take away the safety net.

And, FWIW, there's a world of difference between "I'm not seeing anyone right now" and "I won't see anyone."

And her telling you that she doesn't want to know is her telling you what she plans on doing if she does see someone.

Do what you will. But what I think you should do is draw up a separation agreement and give it to her. And a date, not more than a week or two out, where you need an answer if she's ever coming back or not.
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post #43 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 02:41 PM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

Be exceedingly careful on what information you give to your in-laws. Blood really is thicker than water! Listen closely what they say, but, do not give them anything. After a while, you may want to give serious consideration to severing all communications with them. In the end, they will always side with her if she gets in trouble with her decisions. Choose your friends now very wisely. Your in-laws should not be among them. Sorry, but, that is just he way it is.
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post #44 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

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Be exceedingly careful on what information you give to your in-laws. Blood really is thicker than water! Listen closely what they say, but, do not give them anything. After a while, you may want to give serious consideration to severing all communications with them. In the end, they will always side with her if she gets in trouble with her decisions. Choose your friends now very wisely. Your in-laws should not be among them. Sorry, but, that is just he way it is.
I havent spoken directly to her mom or step dad since this all started. After that drunk phone call I received from her idiot cousin I cut ties with him as well. I told hime to not call or text me anymore because I have my own support system and do not need outside influences fogging up this already hellish situation.

Right now the only advice I will take is from TAM, my direct family, and my close friends. But like I said I'm starting the 180 so I've had it with people trying to give me advice or approaching me uninvited. I will only listen when I have initiated the subject.
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post #45 of 1426 (permalink) Old 06-04-2015, 07:51 AM
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Re: Feeling like crap today with separation

Yea, really wish I had TAM to consult when I had my first Rodeo with my almost XW. Fast forward 9 years, everything is now worse, and more expensive. Along the way, I think I made all the mistakes listed in TAM and probably came up with a few new ones.

During the coming months, you will gets inundated with information. Some solicited some not. Understand one thing! You make the decisions now! Very few, if any,decisions will need to be made in haste. Think on them. Take whatever time you need to sift through any conflicting information. Listen to your gut feeling/voice. If you able, defer what you can to your attorney. Lighten your load as much as you can and march forward to a new future, with new experiences, and people waiting for you.
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