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Old 09-25-2011, 12:31 AM   #376 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

"Dad" Madden here for the play by play highlight analysis:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
W emails from iPad today saying Help, can't move, back killing me. Think I had a seizure. Can't get to phone. Please come.

I replied You want an ambulance? She said No. I told her I'd come over.

She is epileptic, but hasn't had a seizure in 15 years. With no phone I had to go. She did have a seizure and fell down the basement stairs, blood all in her hair and on the floor. Was able to get her to a couch, and can't convince her to go to the hospital. They will give her pain meds and tell her to rest, she says. I helped get a few things in front of her, like water, Aleve, some food and her phone.

We've talked about random things, it's been pleasant, though I have no intention of staying the rest of the day and night to wait on her.

Control play? Doubt it. Test to see if i care if she lives or dies? Maybe. But I felt it was right. First time we've spoken in person since I left. In the interest of civility, I think it was good, and tbh I do care if she lives or dies, I just don't care to be her buddy or stay married to her. She's gonna try to get a gf to help her tonight, maybe stay with her.

She looks like hell, but blood will do that. Odd day. Still there right now, have to leave to get work done soon.
Exhibit 1 - An emergency where the perpetrator has a fall due to a seizure. Interesting that no phone was in range to call 911, yet an Ipad with email was within range of the perpetrator whereas an email could be written to Sham. Hmm. Coincidental? Possibly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
She could have emailed many people, but I'm the only one with keys to get in the house.
Things that make you say "Hmmmmm...."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
I admit that I had wondered on the way over "is this what it seems on the surface?" When I pulled up I looked around for cars of friends that I might recognize, I regretted that I hadn't brought a VAR, etc. Hell, I even looked out the window a few times to make sure someone wasn't taking my car once I went inside. But I honestly was not expecting an ambush here. Just keeping my eyes open.

But once I saw her I knew she just needed help and as much as I have no reason to be nice to her, this was not a matter of nice. Just not the type of person to respond to a message like that by saying "Ambulance on the way. Good luck." I'm no saint, but I do care enough to help her in a serious situation.

Even though I was in full-on Mk II mode, I felt relief that we could be in the same room and be at ease. Not at ease over the affair and lying, cuz damn...but at ease over the reality of me being gone setting in, and knowing that it's at least possible (only saying possible here guys) to end this on a less sour note.

Helping her up on the couch, and then cleaning/disinfecting the wound on the back of her head required me to make contact, touch her hair and act in a caring way. It was hard. But it was also natural, prob because the craziness was taken out of the equation, given the circumstances...and let's be honest, I'm used to taking care of her when she needed it. Kinda like neighbors fighting on opposite sides of the Civil War, helping the other when injured.

I'm sorry it had to be over an injury, but I can't think of a more natural way to make contact for the first time after such a horrific period (instead of getting together to pore over debts and argue about affair expenses being reimbursed to me, etc). So I'm thankful for that.

And no worries folks, I'm not going soft. I have been expecting face to face contact for a week or two now in some capacity. She has still shown no remorse or even mentioned what she did to me and our marriage, and whether or not it may have been a bad thing. Today she thanked me many times for helping her and taking care of her. I said "you're welcome" once, the rest of them I either nodded or changed the subject. She apologized for keeping me from my work (to which I said "I'll be fine"). She even asked if I'd like to stay for some pizza that she had ordered while I was there (I got the door when it came, as she was couch-bound). I said no thanks, I have to get back. Without any kind of actual apology for the bunker buster she dropped on our marriage, I can't be gotten to...won't let that happen.
Exhibit #2- Damsel in Distress move. Where have I seen this movie?

Sidebar: I think if Sham had stayed, there may have been a convo about the affair - if Sham had pushed it. Let me explain why I think this with the next few comments:

I believe she wanted you to check on her and DB McGee. The fact you didn't will be perplexing to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
One more thing...while there I asked to use her laptop to look up a few things about the head wound (make sure I cleaned it right, as I am no MD). She said sure. I asked for the password. She gave it. And there I was sitting in the chair across the room from her, with the screen facing away from her, and her not being able to move.

I could have scanned emails, I could've grabbed the most recent backup text log and emailed it to myself, whatever. I thought about it, but I didn't do it. I looked up what I said I was going to look up and then set the laptop back down on the table.

Can only look at that as a good thing....let's hear it for 180.
Way to go Sham Mk II!

Exhibit #3 - "Feigned transparency" - Without so much as saying it, she was giving sham the opportunity here to check on her and DB McGee - good on Sham - he didn't look and give her any indication that he cared anymore (WOW Sham! WOW!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
She did say she has not been taking her meds regularly lately. Perhaps due to stress/depression/not giving a crap? Not sure, but she took one while I was there. She always takes that pill like clockwork at night before bed. But as you know, I can't speak for the last month, as I've been gone. Assuming it was definitely a seizure (I wasn't there when it happened, so I can only go by what I saw at the house and how she was acting) she clearly needs to be taking them daily. Alcohol may have been a factor though. She could have been really over the edge and fallen down the stairs with the same result. Either way, she was hurt pretty bad. Guess it doesn't matter, as far as my involvement today.

Also, she just texted me 10 hrs later "Thanks again for helping me"

Between that and the email I don't think I have to worry about her fabricating a story about why I was at the house, and what happened.
Exhibit #4 - Motive.

Judge: I move that Ms. Shamwow is attempting an R with apparent rugsweeping.

Objection! She is trying to frame Shamwow and get his rear-end thrown in jail!

Overruled - She has the motive and opportunity to R with Sham - using relationship familiarity to affect Sham Mk II's new mental shielding and reign Mr. Sham back in with more or less NO accountability other than the feigned transparency.

Sham - You performed well today. Good job.

My honest assessment here? While u aren't going R soon, I suspect she will keep these interactions up in an attempt to reign your feelings back to her, possibly without an accounting for her actions. I think the opportunity to discuss the infidelity was present today, yet may have been punctuated by scattered showers of fog and trickle truth.

Steel yourself. You one the day, but she knows how to press your buttons. Not saying her fall was intentional, yet I've fallen on stairs / my head lots of times and I didn't split my scalp open.

Ever wonder why she didn't want an ambulance / doctor? A trained professional could've verified if said injury was self-inflicted or not.

Head injuries are ALWAYS really bloody when they happen, but at the same time if a nasty spill REALLY happened, she really should have full concussion workup done as brain bleeds can happen when a person doesn't realize it.

I'm sure you can research ways to give yourself a relatively painless - but bloody head injury that is non-life threatening to elicit sympathy.

Just consider this in your future dealings with her and you may have to have a "cut the bullcrap" session if u r serious about the D.

Bravo though, definitely Alpha control today. Don't let her bring out the Beta too much though. She doesn't respect that part of you as much....

Just saying!

Last edited by Dadof3; 09-25-2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:36 AM   #377 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Sham, good luck. I can't read these comments anymore.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:17 AM   #378 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeking sanity View Post
Sham, good luck. I can't read these comments anymore.



Dad - thoroughly enjoyed reading your play by play. Madden would be proud. But there's no way she would give herself a head injury to get me to come over. I really believe she just fell man...whether seizure or drunken slip, she just fell, hard. It wasn't a knife cut or anything, it was a hard hit on something blunt.

And I totally think she should go to the doctor stat. Told her so many times.

But disagreement on that point or not...that was one awesome reply, Sat night, made me smile. Seriously. Thanks

Last edited by Shamwow; 09-25-2011 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:11 AM   #379 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Just so you know, alcohol makes anti-seizure medication a lot less effective. If that's the sort of meds she was on and she has been drinking a lot, then thats probably why she had a seizure.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:55 AM   #380 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloooNurse View Post
Just so you know, alcohol makes anti-seizure medication a lot less effective. If that's the sort of meds she was on and she has been drinking a lot, then thats probably why she had a seizure.


Nurse is right and following this from the start Ms Sham will put etoh away in a heartbeat.

One other thing; I'm not a big conspiracy theory person but my spidey senses tell me you need to be on the look out for an evolving "damsel in distress" play. May be wrong......just saying!
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:16 AM   #381 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Sham,

If you don't mind going back a bit, could you say how long Mrs. Sham had been on this job on the road? Did you have a problem with her having to travel and be gone this much and how did she like the travel? Would she have quit the job if you had asked her?

Also, have you ever had a position where you had to travel?
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:06 AM   #382 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

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Originally Posted by chapparal View Post
Sham,

If you don't mind going back a bit, could you say how long Mrs. Sham had been on this job on the road? Did you have a problem with her having to travel and be gone this much and how did she like the travel? Would she have quit the job if you had asked her?

Also, have you ever had a position where you had to travel?
She started traveling about 3 years ago, but at that time it was very rare. 3-4 times that year, and for a week at a time. On her first trip she told me she didn't know if she could handle being apart from me, as we'd hardly spent a night apart in 5 years prior.

Then 2 years ago she got in with a client that had her traveling closer to 5-7 days a months. Then about 1 year ago she got a 4 month job in a major city, and I moved there with her for that time. Then a few 2 week jobs, a few weeks home and them BAM...10 weeks traveling from town to town, no possibility for me to visit her easily or settle in with her like the 4mo job a year ago. So it really kinda ratcheted up in the last year, just that the travel was almost constant and the lengths of time were growing.

I was becoming very vocal about wanting her to take more time off, or find something that keeps her in town more often. I certainly didn't want to control her career, as she was finding a lot of success. When things got "weird", and we were talking relationship more often, she knew I was not thrilled at any travel anymore, and I was asking her to take a few months off, because we need time to settle back in before she left again, concerned about not fully reconnecting and then she's on the road and it's really hard then.

She has turned down a few jobs based on me suggesting she not take it. But it was usually just because it didn't look like a good job, and she was on the fence herself. I used to visit her occasionally when she waws out of town too, so that made it easier, but that basically came off the table on 10wk trip starting in April. So it became much harder then, and she knew my thoughts on that.

I travel a few times a year for work, but it's usually not for long (4-5 days), and I'm generally accessible by phone/text or she came with.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:10 AM   #383 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Any tips on the damsel in distress angle? Wont let her die (obviously), and it's nice to have some communication lines open, but clearly don't wanna be sucked in by pity. Why would she want to pull that if she wants out too? A few comments about her maybe opening up if I had stayed longer yesterday...perhaps she sees this as an opportunity to talk to me for a completely valid reason. If that's the case and it happens more, puts me in a tough spot because I WANT to have that conversation with her, just don't want to initiate it because that takes hand away from me, and undoes a lot of my recent posturing while moving on.

Maybe to give herself more time to get her financial house in order before it's final? I mean, she's the one pushing for the house sale asap, but then again, we've been talking about getting out of that house for years, kinda trapped. And getting out would ease her financial strain, even if it tarnishes her credit.


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Last edited by Shamwow; 09-25-2011 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:26 AM   #384 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

I think the seizure was for real brought on by the stress of what her life has become.
It`s perfectly natural that Sham would be her first call for help.
It`s what she knows and she doesn`t have another support system in place so her only option is fall back on the status quo which is seriously changing right before her eyes.

Think about it and you`ll see she`s taken some very heavy hits.

Sham left, is divorcing.
OM probably went NC, due to Shams exposure to OMW.
No money.
No dogs.
Living alone.
Stuck in mortgage (as far as she knows)
Job must kinda suck now considering what happened.
Friends can`t be too thrilled with her.

I think she`s coming farther out of the fog and is a bit lost and confused.

Sucks to be her.

I think you may see the possibility for R before this divorce is final.
Don`t know if you should take it or not, this woman's pride is a serious roadblock.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:26 AM   #385 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
Any tips on the damsel in distress angle? Wont let her die (obviously), and it's nice to have some communication lines open, but clearly don't wanna be sucked in by pity. Why would she want to pull that if she wants out too? A few comments about her maybe opening up if I had stayed longer yesterday...perhaps she sees this as an opportunity to talk to me for a completely valid reason. If that's the case and it happens more, puts me in a tough spot because I WANT to have that conversation with her, just don't want to initiate it because that takes hand away from me, and undoes a lot of my recent posturing while moving on.

Maybe to give herself more time to get her financial house in order before it's final? I mean, she's the one pushing for the house sale asap, but then again, we've been talking about getting out of that house for years, kinda trapped. And getting out would ease her financial strain, even if it tarnishes her credit.


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Give her the key back and she has to make emergency arrangements with friends or relatives. Next time call the ambulance (they have ways of getting in the house). Might have to harden heart to her 'plight'.
Unless you welcome the opportunity to get reacquainted. This isn't rude. Maybe she's out of the 'fog' and with a little softness from you (such as tending to her wound), she will be ready to open up as to what the hell happened with her. Maybe she's back or the kindness from you will allow her some vulnerability.
If you didn't care, you could have handled things differently (ambulance). But you do. And that's ok - that's even good. You would hand over the house key so that can't happen again.
She lacks the emotional maturity to meet this head on and discuss what happened - so she's creating these situations (last one was probably not created, but taking advantage of a bad situation).
This is her reaching out. If you keep responding, it's to accept this and move forward.
Hey you were married to her and love(d) her. It's a chance for you to move forward too while both of you saving face. She doesn't show weakness and you don't either.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:31 AM   #386 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Sham,

I don't think there is a conspiracy planned by WW. She may be regretting her past actions, and wanting to get the comfort and security of the marriage back. She may even want to reconcile.

But the old marriage is dead for both of you. If you happened to reconcile, neither of you will trust the other. She will not trust that you wont leave again, you will not trust that she wont cheat again.

I would have a heart to heart discussion about the future for both of you. She needs to know that you never be more than a sympathetic friend for her. You won't be doing honey do's for her, but will help out for true emergencies.

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Old 09-25-2011, 01:24 PM   #387 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
Any tips on the damsel in distress angle? Wont let her die (obviously), and it's nice to have some communication lines open, but clearly don't wanna be sucked in by pity. Why would she want to pull that if she wants out too? A few comments about her maybe opening up if I had stayed longer yesterday...perhaps she sees this as an opportunity to talk to me for a completely valid reason. If that's the case and it happens more, puts me in a tough spot because I WANT to have that conversation with her, just don't want to initiate it because that takes hand away from me, and undoes a lot of my recent posturing while moving on.

Maybe to give herself more time to get her financial house in order before it's final? I mean, she's the one pushing for the house sale asap, but then again, we've been talking about getting out of that house for years, kinda trapped. And getting out would ease her financial strain, even if it tarnishes her credit.


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Based on this info, I would more read her actions as her moving forward with getting out of there (as you two had already planned) and hoping someone you will let her move in with you.

Those actions COULD be construed as wanting to move on.... question is move on to what or where or who. My money is the who is you, the where is with you, and the what is BLANKET absolution of her infidelity.

Just another two cents.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:27 PM   #388 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Sham, maybe you can get in touch with one of your mutual friends or even one of her friends, and have them check up on her for now (in case the head injury is more serious than what was thought), and to keep tabs on her, so that she won't do something drastic.

And, perhaps, she is not looking for R, but she may very well be resigning herself to the fact that the M will most likely not be saved (your errand of mercy may have confirmed it to her), and she has decided to D amicably.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:02 PM   #389 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
Any tips on the damsel in distress angle? Wont let her die (obviously), and it's nice to have some communication lines open, but clearly don't wanna be sucked in by pity. Why would she want to pull that if she wants out too? A few comments about her maybe opening up if I had stayed longer yesterday...perhaps she sees this as an opportunity to talk to me for a completely valid reason. If that's the case and it happens more, puts me in a tough spot because I WANT to have that conversation with her, just don't want to initiate it because that takes hand away from me, and undoes a lot of my recent posturing while moving on.

Maybe to give herself more time to get her financial house in order before it's final? I mean, she's the one pushing for the house sale asap, but then again, we've been talking about getting out of that house for years, kinda trapped. And getting out would ease her financial strain, even if it tarnishes her credit.


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Sham,

I just wonder if reality is setting in and if she is trying to open options by so doing. IDK

Just throwing out food for thought!
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:23 PM   #390 (permalink)
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Default Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks...

i'd contact the couple that were involved when you got the lasst of your stuff. You were both there that day with them. They know what's going on in the relationship.

It would paint you in a good, caring light to them as well as possibly give you a fall back position if things turn for the worse.

Q~
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