Well, if you are probing only for yourself, and not for your relationship or a potential fantasy of R then have at it.
However, as has been mentioned before, she is most forthcoming, contrite, and "sorry" when her back is against the wall. She's feeling the heat financially and her reflex is to make nice with Sham (and put up with his straightforwardness if she has to) because you are perceived as a vehicle to get her out of this mess. These are the exact wrong reasons to let her "connect" with you on any level of intimacy whatsoever.
Once her predicament is solved she is in the same exact place...her demons won't be resolved.
If you want truth from her, real truth, then it won't come until she has worked out, or is working through the issues she has with herself (that allowed her to spread her legs for another in the first place). Right now anything she says to you might contain some truth, but is also surely contains some wood on which she can prop herself up.
Being Alpha was a lot of fun but now, it's time to be a friend again!
How 'bout a game of cellphone Scrabble? Chicks totally dig guys that they can flirt with and do things like cellphone Scrabble. She may be having financial problems, but, hey, it takes two to make a team, and Shamwow, she KNOWS you will be there with/for her when she goes to see the accountant. Or when she doesn't go see the accountant and re-schedules. And when she blows it off. It's whatever, because she can count on you, big guy!
Besides, she said "sorry!" Way cool. It has put you in a euphoric state of bliss! You feel like you can tell her anything! Even though you were worried about "opening the gates of hell," only a little while ago.
If that "sorry" had actually been attached to an apology for her actions, you might have passed out from the pleasure.
She falls down and hurts her head, she can count on YOU! She wants to see the dogs for a few hours- no, wait, skip the dogs, it's cool either way, she knows she can count on YOU! Watching a game at her place? For only the first 20 minutes? You're THERE!
Remember the sleepless nights? The agony of discovery? The demands that she ignored? Remember the panties full of semen?
The person who put you through all this is playing Scrabble with you. Alpha behavior does not consist of playing games with the wife who cheated on you. In fact, Alpha behavior does not involve playing Scrabble with any woman, period.
You've put in a lot of effort, to be backsliding like this. That 2.0 upgrade needs a security patch, pronto.
Wow, thanks for the dressing down, NLY. Appreciate the insight, and trying to keep me from sliding, seriously...but for the moment I'd like to respectfully disagree with about 70% of that. Right now, gotta game to watch.
Being Alpha was a lot of fun but now, it's time to be a friend again!
How 'bout a game of cellphone Scrabble? Chicks totally dig guys that they can flirt with and do things like cellphone Scrabble. She may be having financial problems, but, hey, it takes two to make a team, and Shamwow, she KNOWS you will be there with/for her when she goes to see the accountant. Or when she doesn't go see the accountant and re-schedules. And when she blows it off. It's whatever, because she can count on you, big guy!
Besides, she said "sorry!" Way cool. It has put you in a euphoric state of bliss! You feel like you can tell her anything! Even though you were worried about "opening the gates of hell," only a little while ago.
If that "sorry" had actually been attached to an apology for her actions, you might have passed out from the pleasure.
She falls down and hurts her head, she can count on YOU! She wants to see the dogs for a few hours- no, wait, skip the dogs, it's cool either way, she knows she can count on YOU! Watching a game at her place? For only the first 20 minutes? You're THERE!
Remember the sleepless nights? The agony of discovery? The demands that she ignored? Remember the panties full of semen?
The person who put you through all this is playing Scrabble with you. Alpha behavior does not consist of playing games with the wife who cheated on you. In fact, Alpha behavior does not involve playing Scrabble with any woman, period.
You've put in a lot of effort, to be backsliding like this. That 2.0 upgrade needs a security patch, pronto.
Being Alpha was a lot of fun but now, it's time to be a friend again!
How 'bout a game of cellphone Scrabble? Chicks totally dig guys that they can flirt with and do things like cellphone Scrabble. She may be having financial problems, but, hey, it takes two to make a team, and Shamwow, she KNOWS you will be there with/for her when she goes to see the accountant. Or when she doesn't go see the accountant and re-schedules. And when she blows it off. It's whatever, because she can count on you, big guy!
Besides, she said "sorry!" Way cool. It has put you in a euphoric state of bliss! You feel like you can tell her anything! Even though you were worried about "opening the gates of hell," only a little while ago.
If that "sorry" had actually been attached to an apology for her actions, you might have passed out from the pleasure.
She falls down and hurts her head, she can count on YOU! She wants to see the dogs for a few hours- no, wait, skip the dogs, it's cool either way, she knows she can count on YOU! Watching a game at her place? For only the first 20 minutes? You're THERE!
Remember the sleepless nights? The agony of discovery? The demands that she ignored? Remember the panties full of semen?
The person who put you through all this is playing Scrabble with you. Alpha behavior does not consist of playing games with the wife who cheated on you. In fact, Alpha behavior does not involve playing Scrabble with any woman, period.
You've put in a lot of effort, to be backsliding like this. That 2.0 upgrade needs a security patch, pronto.
This is spot on. It's easy to gloss over things as time passes and still offer words of encouragement, but when all of the facts are laid out this plainly it really does look ridiculous. It reads like a guy who is just honored to be in his cheating wife's presence, no matter the cost. If a divorce is really what Sham wants in his heart, I think the pleasentries and in between stuff serves no purpose, it should be business from here on out. If he wants to be friends or get back together, that's his pregogative too. Posted via Mobile Device
This is spot on. It's easy to gloss over things as time passes and still offer words of encouragement, but when all of the facts are laid out this plainly it really does look ridiculous. It reads like a guy who is just honored to be in his cheating wife's presence, no matter the cost. If a divorce is really what Sham wants in his heart, I think the pleasentries and in between stuff serves no purpose, it should be business from here on out. If he wants to be friends or get back together, that's his pregogative too. Posted via Mobile Device
Completely agree
View my post from a few days ago - pretty much says all of this awhile back.
It is spot on if it is actually as written above. Otherwise it's cherry picking negatives. Please go back and read my thread as to why I want things to be amicable right now. People want me to treat her like s**t indefinitely. She got the 2x4 to the head. It worked. If I feel like the situation calls for less harshness, why is that wrong? Everyone is so concerned (here and friends and family) that me talking about showing her any mercy is a sign that I want to move back in, gloss over everything and forget everything. Could this happen? Sure, I understand the concern. Just give me a little credit here. I may take a step backward now and again, but it's usually followed by 2 steps forward. At least I think so...and believe me, I think about these thins all the time.
Why am I elated because I had a few good days? Apologies for the defensive nature of this post, guess I am tired of posting something hat makes me feel good and being told I've lost everything I've gained. I know everyone's looking out for me here, I do, but I also feel that sometimes people are looking out for my W's continued misery more. Does that make sense? Posted via Mobile Device
It is spot on if it is actually as written above. Otherwise it's cherry picking negatives. Please go back and read my thread as to why I want things to be amicable right now. People want me to treat her like s**t indefinitely. She got the 2x4 to the head. It worked. If I feel like the situation calls for less harshness, why is that wrong? Everyone is so concerned (here and friends and family) that me talking about showing her any mercy is a sign that I want to move back in, gloss over everything and forget everything. Could this happen? Sure, I understand the concern. Just give me a little credit here. I may take a step backward now and again, but it's usually followed by 2 steps forward. At least I think so...and believe me, I think about these thins all the time. Posted via Mobile Device
I don't disagree. There's absolutely no need to treat her like sh*t, but there's a difference between being civil and being friendly. Discussing terms of taxes/divorce over a cup of coffee is being civil. Setting up dates chill on the couch and watch the game is friendly.
There's nothing "wrong" with being friendly, it just sends mixed signals both in what you want and what you've said to her. This isn't just to save face or look like "the man" to her, it's a matter of self integrity and sticking up for yourself.
I've noticed in both threads a couple instances where you contemplated cutting someone off as a friend because you felt they were less than loyal. If you're interested in protecting your self interests, being "friendly" only means that you don't really mean that the things you said were deal breakers, were indeed deal breakers. Even if the divorce goes through, you're still rewarding her for treating you badly.
If reconciliation is what you want, I just think that needs to be expressed so you two can talk through things and find common ground. If divorce is what you want, it's nothing more than a piece of paper if you're not enforcing the boundaries you said you believe in. So I guess to sum it up, my opinion is that a hard stance has to be taken one way or the other if you truly want to either gain your independence or a wife out of this thing.
And I'm NOT suggesting that any of this is easy. I haven't been through it and can't imagine the roller coaster. I just think she made her decision, so she should either live with it or earn her way back. And if she's going to earn her way back don't cheat for her Posted via Mobile Device
You are doing great, Sham. I think you are right about some of us wanting your wife to suffer, but I think most, if not all, want you to succeed on your own terms.
Keep your chin up. Although we seem to be hard on you, you still have our respect.
And no need for apologies. This is a rough time for you so vent all you want. I don't think you've lost everything you gained at all. Your feelings are warranted so you should own and embrace them. If you feel good about something that happened that's great. You can't control that and don't have to. It's only the actions that send mixed signals and leave you in limbo or a potential circle of confusion and disappointment that I find dangerous. Posted via Mobile Device
Hey Sham, my feelings are whatever gets you though the day. It's exhausting to be a D*ck 24/7. As you have stated she can put up one hell of a wall. Being civil is not a sin and if it makes the divorce process easier for you then so be it.
First of all - My thought is that anyone faced with an actual dealbreaker situation will ALWAYS doubt their resolve to truly stick to it once put into action. Whether or not they show anyone that doubt, that's another story. I have been harder than I've ever been, and yes, I guess I've done some backsliding...not like I didn't know it/fear it though, I've posted about it for weeks. Rationalizing, hoping for the best. I was wrong.
I am shamed.
You were all right.
My buddy was on the way over for the game (the other had to cancel). He texted to say he was on his way over (this if my W's gf's H). Sweet. Then my W texts me and says "Cheeseburgers and a movie? Or are you busy." I said, "Busy, ____'s coming over to watch the game. If you're up after 10, gimme a call I should be up. [then, kidding, I said] Or good luck, you can try to convince _____ to go to your place. LOL" She said she'd be sleeping.
Then she calls gf's H and convinces him to come over to the house. Seriously. He figures it was actually my idea, and apparently she thought I was serious. She texts me "_____'s coming here now, come on over!". I say "No he's not." She says "Is okay? Yeah he really is. No good?". I said "Does it matter?". Then she says "gf is coming over too." Our "traditional" couples night group. FML.
Everything in my gut said to stay home. Everything.
Line up the paddles.
I went. Sham 1.0 back in full effect. Did exactly what I knew I shouldn't. Sorry all, it was a horrible night. (NYL, I still want to punch you in the proverbial neck for knocking the wind out of me earlier tonight, but you were right.)
Horrible.
W was on the phone for 45 mins for work when we got there. I hung out with the couple. We watched the game. Finally W gets off the phone.
She's drunk. Bunch of small talk. Then W starts talking **** about me not bringing cheeseburgers. "Joking", of course. I said whatever, I had food at my place for me and ______. More casual bs small talk for a while. I did NOT want to be there, everything in me saying get the f*** OUT. I realize I'm probably not hiding my emotions very well anymore. W casually comments to gf on a few things she loved in the house, a painting that I took (that I paid $1000 for), the TV and the speakers (which she claimed she didn't give a s*** about before), and the dogs (which she told me to take). I said "However you want to remember it." She reiterates that she's "kidding". Then she starts talking to "me" (though gf and H are 5 feet away) about taxes and splitting up assets, and dropping how much she'll be losing because of the house. I ignore it. She said we'll figure it all out on Thursday and Friday. I said "No we won't, you'll be crazy with work those days, I'll take care of it. Forget it, off your plate." She says "No, I'll have plenty of time."
All the time her phone is lighting up with texts. I knew it was hs douche (I didn't really, but I had a feeling)...not that I should care, but I felt the need to make it less fun for her, as she was probably telling him how she wanted to be bent over right now, but the house was full of boring people (whom SHE forcefully invited).
Bling, bling, bling, texts. I hate that f***ing sound. I finally said "Say hi for me". She said, "what, to ____?" (hs douche). I said "Yeah, how's his divorce going?". "Fine, it's done, but now she's coming back for more money after the fact." I said "Well he's a smart guy, I'm sure he'll figure it out. Give him my lawyer's number."
Then I realize we're that couple, bickering in front of guests. The whole time she keeps saying "totally kidding" but I know she's actually doing her best to make me look like an a-hole. She left the room and I said to the couple "I shouldn't be here. Gonna get going now." W comes back in room. They got up to leave too. I hugged each of them and said great to see them, take care. I said not one word to W as I walked out, nor she to me.
After I left I texted gf's H and said "My gut told me to stay home. My gut hasn't failed me in months. My fault. Great to see you guys though..."
Dude calls me immediately and said yeah, that seemed a little off. I said, whatever, I allowed her to hijack my evening and you two didn't deserve to have to see that. Let's just say *never again* on that front, okay?" We talked for a while. He totally agreed and felt horrible that he went over there instead of calling me first. I said "Totally my bad, I was joking with her and she took it seriously and took over the evening. No worries."
Got home, petted the pups, had a brief cry (first time in a week), then texted stbxw "Hey - that was really fun! We should do that more often."
She came back with "Liar. You should've stayed. You're missing Golden Girls."
Let me categorically state...wait for it...wait for it...F**K THIS.
I was wrong. Again. AGAIN. I knew better, and I let myself lose this round. She is stronger and healthier now, and as I had predicted, she very well may revert right back to the horrible person I lived with for the few months before I left. It appears she did.
I will text her tomorrow and tell her "I'll file the taxes on Thursday and email you signature pages. Have a nice trip."
The b***h is back.
I...am...a...jackass...yet...again...
*&^#$%*&%^T@#$*&(^#%$*(&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just TRY to talk me out of Xanax and vodka martinis tonight.
P.S. W's gained 15 pounds in the last month. Good.
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Re: Go time...and time to go. Sucks... 
