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post #31 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 12:33 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Thank you...I'm trying my best to let her go amicably and with love. I know that if I let her go with hate, then this will be even more painful for all involved, especially the kids.

I told her I cannot control her actions and if she wants to speak with this OM, that's her prerogative. I, too, don't believe in divorce for the same reason...Not religious, but I vowed to be with her until death do us part. She is not honoring those vows, and again, that's her choice. But I will not be the one to file divorce papers.

We had a long talk last night and she said she just doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want to be in the marriage. She doesn't want me out of her life, she wants me to be her friend and be there for her. We have been best friends for 12 years...This is going to take time and healing for me to get over. Like you mentioned, she is much further along in the process than I, so I have some catching up to do. We are going to live in the same house until we can work out the sale (probably when kids are done school/June) and then move into our own places.

Maybe down the road, or along this path she will realize what she's doing and throwing away and decide to make a go at it. Maybe she won't...but I know I'm going to work on making the changes for me. I hope she is the one to reap the benefits of my changes, but if they are for a future partner, then so be it. I love this woman, I will always love this woman and nothing can change that...Not the cheating, not the deceit...I have unconditional love, and I always will. It will take time to forgive what she did, but I will...Again, I vowed to love her and be there for her, no matter what...She may not be honoring those vows, but I'm damn sure going to.

I appreciate all the advice I've gotten on here. Some of it has been blunt and cold...some has been warm. To each their own, and I respect each of you and your opinions/advice. But I need to do what I think is best for my situation, my family, my kids and my WS. In the end, this is going to all work itself out...I will hold my glimmer as long as I can...Again, thank you...
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Last edited by kesta86; Today at 9:00 AM..
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So from her perspective what exactly is she throwing away?

A marriage to a guy who didn't think enough of her to pay any mind to the things that bother her as long as he got his?

That probably sounds harsher than I meant it, but it might help to look at it from her perspective, particularly if you want to reconcile at some point.

I sense an increasing sense of victim hood from you where you have nothing to do with anything and she just "broke her vows".

As I said in a previous post, did you uphold all of yours? Or are you cherry picking the vow that suits you?
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post #32 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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You also vowed to love, honor and cherish her.

Did you?

Very often when people refer to vows they are referring to the vow to stay married while conveniently overlooking the other vows.

Did you honor all of your vows?
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No, I didn't. And I know I didn't. But the difference is I'm willing to work on it and change that going forward. She isn't. I'm not blaming her at all, and I'm not going to play the victim. I take full responsibility for my emotional neglect over the years. However, I'm willing to uphold my vows going forward and wanted to work with her to try and make things better and fix things. She wants to separate and walk away. I can't shake the feeling that she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants the benefit of having me as a best friend being able to talk with me and still see me and have me there for her, without having to work on the marriage. She also wants to be able to go out and be single and have the single life as well. I'm struggling with the feeling that I should just let her go and go our complete separate ways and only have contact in regards to the kids. That might be the best way to have her realize what she's throwing away and what's going to be gone. It might be the best chance of reconciliation down the road. It's just really hard for me to let her go right now. I'm still deeply in love with her and desire the contact with her. I'm kind of in a sense of limbo right now with my thoughts. I'm going to see my IC in a couple of hours. Hopefully they be able to provide some clarity.
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post #33 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 12:48 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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No, I didn't. And I know I didn't. But the difference is I'm willing to work on it and change that going forward. She isn't. I'm not blaming her at all, and I'm not going to play the victim. I take full responsibility for my emotional neglect over the years. However, I'm willing to uphold my vows going forward and we wanted to work with her to try and make things better and fix things. She wants to separate and walk away. I can't shake the feeling that she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants the benefit of having me as a best friend being able to talk with me and you still see me and be with me, without having to work on the marriage. She also wants to be able to go out and be single and have the single life as well. I'm struggling with the feeling that I should just let her go separate and go our complete separate ways and only have contact in regards to the kids. That might be the best way to have her realize what she's throwing away and what's going to be gone. It's just really hard for me to let her go right now. I'm still deeply in love with her and desire the contact with her. I'm kind of in a sense of limbo right now with my thoughts. I'm going to see my icy in a couple of hours. Hopefully they be able to provide some clarity.
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I understand.....it's painful. Believe it or not even though I wanted my divorce I still mourned the end of the marriage.

I had kids and certainly hadn't intended to divorce when I married.

But here's the thing: once the vows are broken neither of you are under obligation to work on anything. It would be nice if she was willing, but she may not have it in her.

Remember that while you're willing to try you also weren't the subject of her neglect, so your perspective is different. In the same way that you're currently more impacted by separating because she's had longer to process it, you haven't been the subject of a lot of neglect, so you aren't scarred like her.

Everyone has their breaking point. You're willing to move past her talking to another guy but if she'd slept with him you might not be even if she was willing, because you might be too scarred.

She might be too scarred to move forward with you. She might have been open a couple of years ago if you'd taken her seriously.

You just can't count on the other person still having an interest when you decide you get it.

Much of life is about timing. That's why we need to treat our partners well all the time.
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post #34 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 12:56 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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But there are two sides to every story, and everyone always throws blame at the cheater and bestows sainthood on the betrayed spouse, and that bothers me. No, you didn't deserve to be cheated on. But she also didn't deserve the sh*tty treatment she got from her husband. You are both in the wrong.
I completely agree with this. I am getting tired of people assuming a cheater is automatically at fault. When I see a cheater, I wonder what motivated them to do that? If the answer is years of a sexless marriage, neglect, not actually being a partner, and not being true to your vows, I don't think cheating is any worse.

Personally, I could never cheat. It's not in my DNA. But, I am sympathetic to people that do cheat that were neglected by their spouse for years.
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post #35 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 01:11 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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No, I didn't. And I know I didn't. But the difference is I'm willing to work on it and change that going forward. She isn't.
That's because she sees now that she has other options than to accept the only marriage she's ever known - a bad one.

That said, if you want to save the marriage you should expose the affair to her important people. So that she sees how bad it looks to the people whose respect she craves. And maybe has second thoughts.

If you just step back and let her do whatever the hell she wants, you are not only hurting you, you're also hurting your kids AND her. You can fight the cheating. You can expose it and try to get her head out of the affair fog. She's not that far into it that she can't see what's wrong with a wakeup call (exposure).

Will she be mad at you? Absolutely. But your marriage can survive her anger. It can't survive another man or her walking out.
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post #36 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 01:28 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Because I vowed to be with her no matter what. Sickness, health, good, bad, everything. I will be the better person and honor those vows. She broke them when she cheated and she's breaking them by wanting separation. I will not.
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Let's cut the bull here. You haven't honor your vows. Not completely, anyway. If your vows are the typical vows used in a marriage ceremony, it would include to love and honor your spouse. You neglected her and your marital problems for at least three years. How was that loving? You think that once you put a ring on her finger, that you can relax and become complacent?

Tell her you'll be coparents with her, but you won't be her friend or be there for her. She's fired you from that job so let her OM take that job. You sound like a crappy husband but that still doesn't give her the right to cheat.

Do the 180. No chit chat, no begging, don't move to the basement. If she wants an in-house separation, she would have to move to the basement. And what is this nonsense about not filing for D? That's a cop-out for being afraid to move on and bring a resolute outcome to this problem. What, are you going to wait while she has her affair? Where's your self-respect? Apologize to her for neglecting her and your marriage, for being stubborn and complacent. Tell her that it may look hopeless now but you are willing to work hard to repair this marriage, but she has to be all in. If she's not, you two should move directly to divorce and not drag this thing out.
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post #37 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 02:33 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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I completely agree with this. I am getting tired of people assuming a cheater is automatically at fault. When I see a cheater, I wonder what motivated them to do that? If the answer is years of a sexless marriage, neglect, not actually being a partner, and not being true to your vows, I don't think cheating is any worse.

Personally, I could never cheat. It's not in my DNA. But, I am sympathetic to people that do cheat that were neglected by their spouse for years.
I personally tend to put cheaters into two distinct buckets:

The selfish, entitled pr!cks that have loving, willing spouses but think they're entitled to more, and the ones who were treated poorly by their spouse.

TAM treats them all as bucket one, but I think they need to be approached differently.

This one is bucket two.
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post #38 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 03:03 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

If you value your Kids and your time do NOT move out of that house. She wants to separate - fine - she can move out. Do yourself a favor and look up the top 10 mistakes dads make when the marriage breaks down. Please do it for your self.
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post #39 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 03:44 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

Exactly. Do NOT make this easy for her. If she really loves you and is just in an affair fog (look it up), then she NEEDS you to help her get out of it. That means not just willingly walking way, nor making it easy for her to just skip on to the next thing that makes her heart go pitter-patter. She's a mom now and she has responsibilities. Slow this thing down. Tell her you aren't going anywhere. If she wants to move out to go find herself, she's free to do so, but you and the kids aren't going anywhere. This is y'all's home.

THAT SAID, you must also be showing her in concrete ways that you GET it, and you will never be that guy again, that whichever woman you end up with will be thrilled because you'll never let a woman down again. She has to see you changing in real terms - not words.
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post #40 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 04:23 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by lifeistooshort View Post
I personally tend to put cheaters into two distinct buckets:

The selfish, entitled pr!cks that have loving, willing spouses but think they're entitled to more, and the ones who were treated poorly by their spouse.

TAM treats them all as bucket one, but I think they need to be approached differently.

This one is bucket two.
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I am not defending the OP, he has mountains of ownership in this... but I do strongly feel that treated poorly is not an acceptable reason for engaging in an affair while married. If you are thinking another hidden relationship while married, even if just for sex, file and be done so that the cut is clean and with self-respect.

An affair is mutual assured destruction of all things self...

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post #41 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 04:39 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

kesta86, you know where you have failed... some are hit here with 2x4's, you are getting the 4x4 attention, it hurts because you recognize the truth.

So be it... keep your vows and don't date, be humble and focus on finding those things in you so that if an opportunity comes you will be a different person than the one that started on this journey.

Your biggest challenge is that your wife has replaced you in some capacity, but who knows with the maybes as we all have challenges... it's the approach, the reception, and the acceptance that drives the difference when it comes to it.

You get the approach and the acceptance... these are yours to hold closely as you work on you.

Let her own the reception... these are yours to let go as you again, work on you.

Everything in life is temporary... while it feels like it, it will not last forever but it's the growth you implement that will soften any transition you do face.

Peace be with you on your path...

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post #42 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Exactly. Do NOT make this easy for her. If she really loves you and is just in an affair fog (look it up), then she NEEDS you to help her get out of it. That means not just willingly walking way, nor making it easy for her to just skip on to the next thing that makes her heart go pitter-patter. She's a mom now and she has responsibilities. Slow this thing down. Tell her you aren't going anywhere. If she wants to move out to go find herself, she's free to do so, but you and the kids aren't going anywhere. This is y'all's home.

THAT SAID, you must also be showing her in concrete ways that you GET it, and you will never be that guy again, that whichever woman you end up with will be thrilled because you'll never let a woman down again. She has to see you changing in real terms - not words.
You hit it dead on. We talked again, and I told her I'm not leaving the house or going anywhere. We are going to "fake" it through the Holidays. In January, we will begin an in-house separation, co-habitating, but being in different bedrooms, etc. Should she continue to want to separate and not be in this marriage, we will look to sell our house and go our separate ways when our kids are done school (don't want to disrupt them or move them in the middle of the school year.

I am committed to this, no matter how far gone or how deep in the fog she may be. I saw my IC today, and I know what I need to do. It's time I show her the changes in practice, rather than words.

No more talking about it.No more worrying about the OM and whether she's talking to him. FOCUS on me and making my changes, hopefully wake her out of the fog and work on this marriage together.
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post #43 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 05:13 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

Keesta,

You are making progress. But if I read it correctly this OM is 3000 miles away so if she is talking to him no big deal. Thats all she can do.

But understand, if she is checked out , then in house separation is very difficult for as long as you are talking about because she will no longer consider herself married and you will wind up baby sitting while she dates real live OM in person right in front of you. If you can handle that, fine, but you better be prepared for it. There is a difference between maybe her upstairs in the bedroom talking to OM but it becomes harder watching her primp to go out on a date.

It takes a while in most cases to prepare and actually get a house sold. The sooner you start that the better off you will be. If you get a buyer quickly, you can negotiate renting the house back until kids are out of school.

I'd think long and hard of not trying to get her out of the house in less than seven months.
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post #44 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 05:35 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

Ah. Don't you just love body modification?

Gastric bypass for a fat woman is like taking a magic pill that makes them desireable. They don't have to do any work to make themselves desireable, they just go in, get the surgery and YAY! guys want them!

Except, the insecurities are still there. Otherwise, why would all that male attention even matter to them?

The women who I have known who got gastric bypass surgery all left their husbands. The second they got attention from guys that were more attractive than anyone that every paid them any attention before, they dumped the guys who DID love them.

According to some statistics out there, marriages where one obese person gets bariatric surgery end in divorce within two years for about 80-85% of them.

And guess what @kesta86 : the husband in every one of those marriages that I saw fall apart had the exact same attitude you do. Their wives hung on because they thought they had no options, and a lousy man was better than no man. The men professed their willingness to change to "get them back". But, that was no change at all. The women already believed that their husbands thought they were sticking it out with them for the same reasons they were. Lack of options. Of course those silly men were going to try to keep them now that they were HOT! but why should they settle that they don't have to?

The only way your wife would even be able to believe that you are capable of changing is if you did something you have NEVER done before. Something so out of character that it literally shocks her and makes her take notice. She will flat out ignore the same old same old, grovely BS.

Personally, I would expose her affair and divorce her. Tell her that she has decided to be someone that you simply have NO desire to have any association with. Tell her that you wouldn't be caught dead calling someone who betrays her husband like she has a "best friend".

Tell her that you were obviously wrong about her, that she must never have been such a great and moral person after all.

Or, keep groveling amd being the "better person". She is pretty hot nowadays, after all, quite the catch. Apparently she was not hot enough for you to listen to her back when you thought you were the best she could get, but hey, you didn't know there was a problem up until a couple weeks ago, right? . So hey, try it. Wait around and see how it works out for you.



If you don't think that she will look back at this at some point and detest her own deception, then you need to wake up. She is headed for an emotional rollercoaster that she has absolutely no experience with, and it will likely not end well for her. If you are serious about changing, then do something other than passively watch your wife become someone that she will detest.

Stand up and grow a pair.
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post #45 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Keesta,

You are making progress. But if I read it correctly this OM is 3000 miles away so if she is talking to him no big deal. Thats all she can do.

But understand, if she is checked out , then in house separation is very difficult for as long as you are talking about because she will no longer consider herself married and you will wind up baby sitting while she dates real live OM in person right in front of you. If you can handle that, fine, but you better be prepared for it. There is a difference between maybe her upstairs in the bedroom talking to OM but it becomes harder watching her primp to go out on a date.

It takes a while in most cases to prepare and actually get a house sold. The sooner you start that the better off you will be. If you get a buyer quickly, you can negotiate renting the house back until kids are out of school.

I'd think long and hard of not trying to get her out of the house in less than seven months.
You make some good points. He is 3000 miles away in CA while we are in MA. I'm just worried that he'll work on her emotionally and pull her even further away than she is right now. While there may currently be nearly no chance of reconciliation, I worry him being involved only decreases the odds. I don't believe it will turn into anything serious with him, and that he is simply a transition affair to her. I guess I will just deal with what comes, focus on making the changes, hope she sees them and recognizes they're genuine and chooses to work on it...
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