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post #76 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 08:58 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by Lila View Post
@kesta86

Based on everything you've posted so far, it looks like your wife is involved in an exit affair. It ticks off every characteristic you've described of both your wife (conflict avoidant ) and your marital relationship to date.

This article https://infidelityrecoveryinstitute....-exit-affairs/ may help you understand what you are dealing with first hand.

Affair Overview:
*The relationship had underlying tension and resentment building up for years (perhaps starting before their wedding)
*They are either unwilling to meet each others needs, or unwilling to talk about meeting each others needs.
*The lack of conflict, is often misinterpreted as a sign “all is fine”
*Leaving the relationship is often surrounded in guilt, however staying in the relationship would be unbearable.
*The relationship with the lover would typically only last as long as the pain of leaving the relationship. The cheater will often spend many years by themselves avoiding commitment and “entrapment.”
exit affair type


This type of affair is usually the outcome of.....a spouse that has been stuck in the marriage for one reason or another and has been waiting for the “right time” to leave.
*The affair is actually initiated years earlier in the mind of the unfaithful spouse, and the marriage relationship is maintained and tolerated by the cheater on the basis of the future plan.
*By the time the cheater is ready to leave, you will often hear them state…
“I’ve toyed with this idea for many years and I finally decided to do it”
*The plan to actually leave the spouse usually comes as a result of the spouses refusal to change, adapt, communicate, or meet some key relationship need in the marriage. The infidel, or future infidel, may try to discuss his or her needs with the spouse, but the spouse doesn’t want to hear or doesn’t want to understand.
*Quite often the infidel will come to a counselor or coach in order to help the spouse in the aftermath and crisis. They wish no harm to their spouse.
*After separating from the spouse, the infidel rarely marries the affair partner. If they do the new marriage will rarely last beyond two years. The lover simply serves as an aid to empower the infidel to leave the pain of the marriage.
*The infidel really wants no commitment, and a new freedom.


Unfortunately for you, this type of affair has the lowest recovery rates of any type of affair.

Chance for reconciliation: Highly unlikely

IMO, your wife is gone. She may be physically present but she no longer shares an emotional bond to you. Those were probably cut long ago. You can use your energy attempting to stop your already gone wife from leaving or you can focus it on lessening the pain of a failed relationship by disconnecting emotionally. The decision is yours to make.

Learn from your mistakes. Work on improving yourself. Make yourself the best man you can be. These are all things your children and future partner(s) will appreciate.
Nicely shared Lila...

I know my approach is often seen as a bit passive for most because it quickly moves to acceptance with honesty, compassion, and boundaries with understanding the true amount of control one has... keys for growth... I just don't believe anymore a sledgehammer is the best tool to place a finishing nail.

He has shared openly and is grounded in my eyes in these last few pages that he knows there are changes he has to make, they are fully for his own attention, he is committed to doing them, and that no matter the outcome of his marriage he needs to do them.

It's not wrong to have some hope. In fact, it is quite essential in many challenges... but it has to be properly placed or we lose focus for what we are trying to gain. The beauty of it is in the recognition of placement... what he leads is self, who know what may follow after that.

He has outlined a plan to maintain calm through the holidays, get the children finished with school, and then accept if all is still where it is while working on the flaws that led him down this road, to let go.

There is a lot of eyes wide open awareness here...

As for the fog of this affair, all he can do is be that lighthouse that keeps his ship off the rocks, whether or not she ever sees his light in her course... but it's humble and giving that he places it out there in case she ever cares to look for it while his ship is in dry-dock for repair.

Calm in the storm gives patience for the clarity needed to enact the right action, and acceptance for what that right action takes.

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post #77 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:01 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Barf - stop beating yourself up. The problem is not him its your old lady. Get this through your head: 1) she does not love you; 2) she does not respect you; 3) in the future there will be someone else other than him eventually because of 1 and 2. She stayed with you when she was a big fatty because it was convenient and no other person would want her, but maybe now she thinks there are other options better than you. I get it, there are kids involved but what are you going to do? Don't worry if she sees and recognizes whatever changes you think you need to make. Maybe I'm shallow or just because I have been a fitness freak my whole life but why would you want to reconcile with some person that was depressed and obese at age 30 then lost some weight and figured the grass was greener elsewhere? She is probably a step or 2 ahead of you. Seek a family attorney and figure out what you need to do. She has probably already done this herself, that's why she suggested you move out (abandonment).

Sing it!
Song, song of the South
Sweet potato pie and I shut my mouth
Gone, "Gone with the Wind"
There ain't Nobody looking back again


There ain't Nobody looking back again..... @kesta86 you ain't a Nobody, you be a Somebody. Somebody who deserves better. SOS is overly harsh, but at the end of the sharp stick, is correcto-mundo on this point:

Move ahead, never looking back.


She will be better off, as you were her main course, this unhealthy diet, with you being consumed. She cannot swallow you whole and she is tired of chewing on you.

And you will be better off; better off then trying to balance the justice scale that you both stand on....her on one side...you on the other. You are evenly overweight with baggage.
.................................................. ................................................
Sweet Potato, I "open" my mouth and sing:

I picture something, it's beautiful
It's full of life, and it is all blue
I see the sunset on the beach, yeah
It makes me feel calm
When I'm calm, I feel good

And when I feel good, I sing
And the joy it brings makes me feel good
And when I feel good, I sing
Of the joy it brings

Jason Mraz - The Freedom Song

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #78 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:04 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

I just have to say it:

You can work the rest of your life at getting your wife back. She's gone now. She chose to leave you for another man. Yes, there is a remote possibility that you may get her back. However, the chance that she will actually love you like she once did----- I think the chances of that are infinitesimal. The best advice here would be to divorce, and move on. But I know that's not what you want to hear. You'd do ANYTHING to avoid that. Yet the fact remains, filing for divorce and acting like a man that can handle whatever comes his way---- that's the best road you can take. You can always cancel a divorce, or remarry. What you're doing is what thousands of divorced men tried and learned the hard way that it just doesn't work---- and that's the thing they live to regret most of all--- they let a cheating, lying, unremorseful spouse destroy their sense of dignity. Don't LET her do that. Go file, sir, and walk away. It's your only hope.
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post #79 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:06 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by Chaparral View Post


You always sound harsh to the guys. It usually turns out they weren't that bad after all and were simply letting someone else guilt them into taking blame via gaslighting. Just like now he's going to hold to a vow she broke. He has no clue yet what really went on or is going on. He's still in cheaters shock. He still wants to be her friend. We've seen this whole thing here a million times and can write it out for him.

If you want an eye opener google women, gastro surgery and divorce.

Unfortunately, with the walk all over me stance being taken, this is going to be one extremely long hard fall.

She lied, she cheated and she's still lying. Get tested for STDs and DNA test your kids.

Consider yourself lucky you are getting out of her horrible path at a young age.
This is a typical TAM hysteria response. The reason I probably sound harsh toward guys is because TAM group think absolves all hb's whose wives bat an eye at another guy and labels said wives.cheating, lying b@tches.

But the reality is often more nuanced, and certainly is in this case.

You've just done it. The woman spoke to a guy on another coast and you've decided OP really wasn't that bad and his wife is evil.

Except you don't know that. But you know what? It doesn't matter if he was "that bad" by your standards....it matters that his wife asked him for counseling and he refused. She's been communicating her unhappiness for years and he ignored her.

What mattered to his wife didn't matter to him.

It's not even like she said nothing and then met some guy and then came up with reasons he's no good. You might make an argument then.

I'm sure bypasses do have a high divorce rate. Having known several people who have had one I think the dynamic is often unhealthy, and the change in marital dynamic can be hard on both parties.

If it makes you feel better to convince yourself he couldn't have been that bad then knock yourself out. All you're going to do is convince him that it's all her fault, then he can go treat the next woman the same way.

Seems to me that for a hb who treats his wife like crap her having some emails with another guy is great because then nothing is his fault.
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post #80 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:26 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

OP's wife has purposefully delivered a nuclear missile to the marriage by giving her emotions to another man, and destroying any emotions she had left for her husband. Due to her guilt, she is going to make OP BELIEVE that his whole marriage as a husband was just atrocious.
What are his crimes? What is he truly guilty of?
Whatever he is guilty of, she is going to increase it in OP's mind with the magnification of the hubble telescope. She has to in order to justify her actions.

Whatever the problem was in their marriage, she blew it up in the end.

Either way, OP's response is to ignore the OM. Yes, the OM is going to reel her emotions in continuously. However, the damage is done on the OM's part-- he's destroyed any emotions the OP's wife had for OP.

It's time to dump the load and move on. If OP is a bad husband, he can improve himself for the next one. The current wife has nothing for OP but contempt and will USE HIM to her advantage as long as possible. What does that say for HER character and HER side of the marriage? She has no respect for her marriage or her husband.

He's going to bend over and take the shaft. He's said as much. We can't change his mind for him.

However, I truly believe that increasing his guilt for what he has done is not helpful to either OP or his wife. They just need to call it quits. If OP was willing to nuke the marriage legally, and force his wife to choose either the security of marriage or the OM, he might have a chance. He's not. He might as well file now. It's coming either way.
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post #81 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:28 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by Emerging Buddhist View Post
I just don't believe anymore a sledgehammer is the best tool to place a finishing nail.

Calm in the storm gives patience for the clarity needed to enact the right action, and acceptance for what that right action takes.
These two sentences STOOD OUT for me.

She is a wounded soul. A finishing nail is apropos. Not a spike.

The hammer? Not a Sledge, not a Jack, not an Air Assisted Brad Driver, no, use a Tinkers Hammer. Light taps, minimum pain.

Couples fall out of love. Love turns to disgust, maybe indifference, even to hate.

Divorce happens 50% of the time. You will have plenty of company and any shame of failure will be short-lived.

In the end, she cheated, she pulled the trigger. She shot you in the azz.

Reconciliation? No soup for you. Her/this, mystery soup will come back, back up the throat, spewed out of your mouth where all can hear your wishful, but failed hopeful pleas.

Move on.

Love the Phoenix [re-incarnated], not the Moth [consumed by the Flame].

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #82 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:32 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by lifeistooshort View Post
This is a typical TAM hysteria response. The reason I probably sound harsh toward guys is because TAM group think absolves all hb's whose wives bat an eye at another guy and labels said wives.cheating, lying b@tches.

But the reality is often more nuanced, and certainly is in this case.

You've just done it. The woman spoke to a guy on another coast and you've decided OP really wasn't that bad and his wife is evil.

Except you don't know that. But you know what? It doesn't matter if he was "that bad" by your standards....it matters that his wife asked him for counseling and he refused. She's been communicating her unhappiness for years and he ignored her.

What mattered to his wife didn't matter to him.

It's not even like she said nothing and then met some guy and then came up with reasons he's no good. You might make an argument then.

I'm sure bypasses do have a high divorce rate. Having known several people who have had one I think the dynamic is often unhealthy, and the change in marital dynamic can be hard on both parties.

If it makes you feel better to convince yourself he couldn't have been that bad then knock yourself out. All you're going to do is convince him that it's all her fault, then he can go treat the next woman the same way.

Seems to me that for a hb who treats his wife like crap her having some emails with another guy is great because then nothing is his fault.
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Your post is simply full of assumptions that there is no evidence of especially how bad he treated her. Examples? Because he did not go to counseling? She has anxiety, depression, self control and no doubt other root causes not yet revealed.

As far as the distance goes, the affair started locally, in other words he has no idea how deep this rabbit hole went/goes.

And no, I do not see cheaters as very nuanced just selfish enough to leave a destroyed family in their adulterous wake.

I also don't see group think but common sense and years of shared experience on this site. Your remark also sexist. Cheating is cheating, not gender specific. All cheaters are a$$es.
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post #83 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:44 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
These two sentences STOOD OUT for me.

She is a wounded soul. A finishing nail is apropos. Not a spike.
Not sure if you're referring to exposure, but nobody is describing nuclear exposure. I've said repeatedly parents, siblings, and best friend(s). HER close circle. The people she would listen to. This is a close, personal discussion to have with these important people to ask for their support in saving this family. Nothing more.

But he has to be brave enough to do it.

And frankly, if MY daughter cheated on her husband and her husband didn't tell me, I would be pissed. Because once I knew, I would level holy hell on her butt for not living up to the values I taught her.
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post #84 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:48 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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If OP was willing to nuke the marriage legally, and force his wife to choose either the security of marriage or the OM, he might have a chance. He's not. He might as well file now. It's coming either way.
This is true... after filing it could be rescinded at any time. This is advice often offered to show many things, acceptance and applied outcome being some, but do not bluff with it... if you do it, understand the ramifications that this may be the final act of marital release for any and all commitments to the union.
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post #85 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:50 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Love the Phoenix [re-incarnated], not the Moth [consumed by the Flame].


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post #86 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 10:27 AM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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And frankly, if MY daughter cheated on her husband and her husband didn't tell me, I would be pissed. Because once I knew, I would level holy hell on her butt for not living up to the values I taught her.
This sent me off the cliff.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............
Holy Hell.

These are opposites....never to meet!

Humans are the interface between the two! Only seen by us. Well, some of us.

Lower life cannot see "them"; "those" two states, two choices, two options, or opt out-shuns.

Ignore both options and be free. Ah, huh. Then, the whip comes from both quarters [from Heaven and Hell].

From both halves comes the scourge of the lash.There are two choices, two options, Heaven and Hell.

Nay I say, there is a third..........sentient Life on Earth [with one eye closed, the other blinking madly]. This makes an uneasy Trinity.

On Earth, only "we" can have an imperfect choice. Elsewhere? Is there an Elsewhere? Probably.

With this divide between Heaven and Hell; we take the brunt of the divide.....in the shorts!

Choices are hard. And we make those choices, as what?... as an Imperfection, what a deal!

We are blindly pulling the sled containing our DNA. What is wrong with this picture!

Oh , Darwin and Evolution. Evolution will fix us. Evolution is too damn slow. It will be the modern Frankensteins that will correct our flaws.

Huh? What are the flaws? Who makes the judgement.....sigh and sh1tsky.
.................................................. .................................................. ...............................................
Safe! I landed in the trees below the cliffs. Need to go home and rub my bruises.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #87 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 03:38 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

Ok. So I had that same surgery.

It completely messes with your head.

You are no longer the fat girl, you are someone else.

It is an eye awakening. Life changing event.

You want to hold on to her? Listen to her. Support her. Love her.

She is going through death. She is grieving who she was and trying to be who she wants to be.

It is rough.


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post #88 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife wants to separate

I think I posted on here that she had reconnected with the OM on FB...I decided to grow some b**ls and tell her how I was really feeling, instead of feeding her the lines I had been...

I gave her an ultimatum. If she wants to make it through the Holidays for the kids, then she needs to cut off all contact with the OM. After the holidays, if she can't go without contacting him, she can file the papers and leave the house. Same goes if she can't go without contacting him through the holidays. She can file the papers and get out. If she wants to make it through the rest of the school year for the kids, she needs to cut off contact with him through June. Once we are in our own places, she can do as she pleases...If she decides to lie and contact him behind my back during either of these times and I find out, I will file At Fault divorce papers for Adultery...I can't have her continuing to build a relationship, despite it not being physical, while in OUR house, on OUR couch with me in the house. Whether we are separated during this time in her mind or not. I won't do it and I won't be the one leaving.

If she decides to go to therapy with me during this time, awesome. It may result in the same outcome, us going our separate ways in June, but at least we can talk through things...I told her she has a couple of days to decide what she wants to do, but the ball is in her court now. She's the one that wants to separate and she's the one that doesn't want to be in this marriage, so she needs to figure out what she wants to do.

I will accept fault for what I did to drive her to where she is...But I didn't deserve to be cheated on. If she wanted to leave, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to deal with the consequences. I won't continue to be cheated on in our house while I sit there, enabling it.

I'll keep everyone updated with how it goes...Thanks for all the advice...
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post #89 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 10:06 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

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Originally Posted by kesta86 View Post
I think I posted on here that she had reconnected with the OM on FB...I decided to grow some b**ls and tell her how I was really feeling, instead of feeding her the lines I had been...

I gave her an ultimatum. If she wants to make it through the Holidays for the kids, then she needs to cut off all contact with the OM. After the holidays, if she can't go without contacting him, she can file the papers and leave the house. Same goes if she can't go without contacting him through the holidays. She can file the papers and get out. If she wants to make it through the rest of the school year for the kids, she needs to cut off contact with him through June. Once we are in our own places, she can do as she pleases...If she decides to lie and contact him behind my back during either of these times and I find out, I will file At Fault divorce papers for Adultery...I can't have her continuing to build a relationship, despite it not being physical, while in OUR house, on OUR couch with me in the house. Whether we are separated during this time in her mind or not. I won't do it and I won't be the one leaving.

If she decides to go to therapy with me during this time, awesome. It may result in the same outcome, us going our separate ways in June, but at least we can talk through things...I told her she has a couple of days to decide what she wants to do, but the ball is in her court now. She's the one that wants to separate and she's the one that doesn't want to be in this marriage, so she needs to figure out what she wants to do.

I will accept fault for what I did to drive her to where she is...But I didn't deserve to be cheated on. If she wanted to leave, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to deal with the consequences. I won't continue to be cheated on in our house while I sit there, enabling it.

I'll keep everyone updated with how it goes...Thanks for all the advice...
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Keesta,

Bravo!!!! Now get to an attorney and have the papers prepared. She will not maintain NC and you know that. You have stated your expectations but until she believes you they mean nothing.

You did not state her reaction. But nice job.
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post #90 of 138 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 10:14 PM
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Re: Wife wants to separate

There you go. Did you apologize for your faults leading up to the emotional affair; for ignoring her pleads to go to counseling?
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