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post #46 of 145 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Originally Posted by notsohappybutnotsosure View Post
Hey GP.... just be thankful you never agreed to children... could be a lot worse.
Yes, many people have reminded me of this fact. I have somewhat mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think if I'd been ready to have a kid when she wanted then we probably wouldn't be getting a divorce. It was extremely important to her to have kids before 30 and when I failed to deliver that crushed her.

On the other hand, yes, if this was the inevitable outcome then having kids would make this far, far worse.

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post #47 of 145 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 05:07 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Yes, many people have reminded me of this fact. I have somewhat mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think if I'd been ready to have a kid when she wanted then we probably wouldn't be getting a divorce. It was extremely important to her to have kids before 30 and when I failed to deliver that crushed her.

On the other hand, yes, if this was the inevitable outcome then having kids would make this far, far worse.
Golf,

You have no real idea how much worse if you had young kids. Hang in there. It will get better, and you will eventually find out I think whether or not you want to about another man. She'll have it all over her social media in no time. You should not pain shop. The texts and other nonsense is just stalling as I said.

If by some chance this starts to reverse, there is a whole lot of stuff you need to do to protect yourself. I would not worry about that now.
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post #48 of 145 (permalink) Old 12-31-2016, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Golf,

You have no real idea how much worse if you had young kids. Hang in there. It will get better, and you will eventually find out I think whether or not you want to about another man. She'll have it all over her social media in no time. You should not pain shop. The texts and other nonsense is just stalling as I said.

If by some chance this starts to reverse, there is a whole lot of stuff you need to do to protect yourself. I would not worry about that now.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

I haven't had any communication with her since Christmas and I doubt we will have any until she tells me when she's going to serve me or I press her for that information.

My gut tells me there isn't another guy at the moment but that she started feeling open and excited by that possibility and that was the sign she needed to end things. Anything is possible of course, but in the end it really doesn't matter as long as we're walking the path we're currently on.

I do wish I could sit down and talk to her just to tell her that I never cheated (100% not physically and I made sure my friendship with my coworker never went into EA territory: there was no flirting, compliments, talking poorly about my wife or our relationship etc.). I feel like that is something we're both going to carry around with us the rest of our lives unless we discuss it openly.

Trying to find NYE plans and that's a big bummer. Hope everyone has a good one.
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post #49 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 09:47 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

I'm going to offer my opinion as you helped me. It is just an opinion so don't wager everything on it.
I kicked my ex out of our home before Christmas and have been going back and forth with my communication and what I want. Its a normal part of breaking up. She may have moved out as a way of trying to get you to fight for her. Immature? Maybe but she might have acted quickly and later regretted it. She could hear her biological clock ticking in her ear and looked for answers as to why the baby thing hadn't happened yet, put 2 and 2 together with your co-worker and came up with 5. She might want to start dating again but may be confused with her feelings for you and not be quite ready. If she was serious about dating, she would be looking after herself and not trying to look too thin. As for being out of communication, as a dumper she may not know what to do. She may be doing the no contact thing to an extent (not answering immediately to make you wonder) and before she moved out, she may have done it for the same reason as we ladies are always advised to treat them mean, keep them keen. Theres so much conflicting advice out there, women get told not to fight for a man because they like doing the chasing but what are you to do if its the woman who initiates a break up. She might have felt, at the time, she had good grounds to move out but acted too quickly to think it through.
I'm not saying there might not be someone else buy you have to look at all angles of a situation and you know her better than any of us do. Its something that you may never know but it might be worth doing a little investigating as part of your divorce because it will change things if she is seeing someone.
All that being said, I would carry on with the no contact and just carry on with the divorce. You've already told her you dont want to do it but she's still pushing so you have to go with it. She might also be doing this so you fight, she might think that youre not trying hard enough to stop it but you do need to let it take its course so she doesn't think she's pulling your strings. She might decide at the last minute it isn't what she wants but she may decide she wants to go through with it. The no contact period is giving you both the ability to stop being angry and stop game playing and actually look at what you want to happen objectively. Right now, you have to look at yourself as a single person and concentrate on getting yourself back, as an individual and not part of a couple.it aches like hell but move forward. Any part of you that you feel needs improvement for you, get working on it. Any places you want to visit, visit them. You will be a better person for it. Try not to let yourself be in limbo, it will become clearer further down the line. Just focus on you
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post #50 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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I'm going to offer my opinion as you helped me. It is just an opinion so don't wager everything on it.
I kicked my ex out of our home before Christmas and have been going back and forth with my communication and what I want. Its a normal part of breaking up. She may have moved out as a way of trying to get you to fight for her. Immature? Maybe but she might have acted quickly and later regretted it. She could hear her biological clock ticking in her ear and looked for answers as to why the baby thing hadn't happened yet, put 2 and 2 together with your co-worker and came up with 5. She might want to start dating again but may be confused with her feelings for you and not be quite ready. If she was serious about dating, she would be looking after herself and not trying to look too thin. As for being out of communication, as a dumper she may not know what to do. She may be doing the no contact thing to an extent (not answering immediately to make you wonder) and before she moved out, she may have done it for the same reason as we ladies are always advised to treat them mean, keep them keen. Theres so much conflicting advice out there, women get told not to fight for a man because they like doing the chasing but what are you to do if its the woman who initiates a break up. She might have felt, at the time, she had good grounds to move out but acted too quickly to think it through.
I'm not saying there might not be someone else buy you have to look at all angles of a situation and you know her better than any of us do. Its something that you may never know but it might be worth doing a little investigating as part of your divorce because it will change things if she is seeing someone.
All that being said, I would carry on with the no contact and just carry on with the divorce. You've already told her you dont want to do it but she's still pushing so you have to go with it. She might also be doing this so you fight, she might think that youre not trying hard enough to stop it but you do need to let it take its course so she doesn't think she's pulling your strings. She might decide at the last minute it isn't what she wants but she may decide she wants to go through with it. The no contact period is giving you both the ability to stop being angry and stop game playing and actually look at what you want to happen objectively. Right now, you have to look at yourself as a single person and concentrate on getting yourself back, as an individual and not part of a couple.it aches like hell but move forward. Any part of you that you feel needs improvement for you, get working on it. Any places you want to visit, visit them. You will be a better person for it. Try not to let yourself be in limbo, it will become clearer further down the line. Just focus on you
Thanks so much for the advice!

I think you're 100% right about the baby issue and my friendship with my coworker creating a narrative in her mind as to why the one hadn't happened and why she need to leave. It's why I mentioned in my last post wanting to meet with her at some point to if nothing else let her know that I never wavered on wanting to be with her and being just a friend with my coworker. I hate that part of this narrative is founded on misunderstanding. In hindsight, my failure was not communicating with her about my friend sooner.

I've definitely been trying to focus strictly on me of late. I went out to a dance club with friends on NYE, and while it started out uncomfortable, I was eventually able to just enjoy myself. I've been working out and talking to friends about new career opportunities as well as the possibility of traveling. It's overwhelming at times, but necessary work.

She did reach out to me on New Year's to tell me she hoped it was a good one. After I reciprocated she sent a picture of something she was crocheting with the caption, "Yeah, it's really wild." I'm actually curious to know what you think about it. When she was frequently doing this kind of stuff (pictures of onesies, telling me how lonely and sad she was etc.), I responded with either encouragement that she go out with friends or tried to tell her it didn't have to be that way because we could be together. Sometimes it led to more dialogue and other times she would just stop responding.

My question is, why does she do this kind of stuff? Especially now that she's filed for divorce and knows my pattern of response and how it didn't change anything. Do you think it's to make me feel bad that I'm out and she's home alone? Do you think it's to show me that she didn't leave me to be with someone else? Do you think she got used to me trying to chase her and is missing that now that I'm not exhibiting the old pattern? Is she maybe confused on a holiday and missing what we had an hoping I might have the magic words to reach her? To show me that she's fundamentally the same person she was when she was with me? All of the above? Something else entirely?

This time I simply said that it (the crocheting) looked fun. I know I probably shouldn't have responded at all to her initial contact, but I thought at this point I could wish her a happy holiday and it wouldn't lead to what I consider passive aggressive behavior. She insisted that she wanted to stay friends with me after this (I told her that wasn't possible), but a friend doesn't treat you this way so I'm just confused.

Sorry if this sounds like ranting. I know some of this is just me wanting things to progress logically, but I guess you can't expect that with something so emotionally charged. I think you're dead on about why she dropped out of contact over the summer. She wanted me to chase, show I cared, was worried but then also have the ability to flip it on me by saying I didn't want her to hang out with friends.

Thanks again, your insight on this is greatly valued.
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post #51 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 02:02 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

I think you're going about this the wrong way. UNLESS she has been cheating (did you ever check her phone?), she was calling out for attention and proof that you loved her. And you walked away from that, gave her the 180, and proved to her that you didn't. Assuming you want to stay married, I suggest you sit down with her, tell her what you want, and ask her to give you another chance.
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post #52 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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I think you're going about this the wrong way. UNLESS she has been cheating (did you ever check her phone?), she was calling out for attention and proof that you loved her. And you walked away from that, gave her the 180, and proved to her that you didn't. Assuming you want to stay married, I suggest you sit down with her, tell her what you want, and ask her to give you another chance.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've checked her phone. There has been a lot of contact with a married male coworker and while it's possible something happened there, I doubt it. She's friends with his wife as well and considering she spent every major holiday alone, except Christmas with her family, that would be a pretty crappy affair. Although, it's possible it's entirely of the emotional variety.

On that note, she let me know today that she notarized her paperwork and asked to serve me this week. Interestingly, when I checked the phone records the last couple of days there were a flurry of calls between her and the coworker right before she called a pawn shop yesterday (pawning her ring I would guess) and the notary service today, so she is in some way using his emotional support and guidance to get through this.

In terms of the 180, I didn't do that at all the first two months. I was constantly texting, chatting and telling her over the phone that I loved her and wanted to make this work. I told her I'd started seeing a therapist the week after she moved out and gave her a very fair plan for how we could work on our marriage. All it got me were pics of onesies and how much she hated seeing that stuff now, texts telling me how lonely she was or just being ignored. I only stopped initiating after sending a heartfelt e-mail and making a grand gesture that got me a text saying she'd started to fill out the divorce paperwork.

Interestingly, the next two weeks after that, she initiated more than she ever had before, but even then when I asked for a meeting or invited her out Halloween weekend so she wouldn't be alone, she declined or told me she would just end up breaking down in tears if she was around me. Kinda at odds with someone that later said she was ready to file the first week after moving out, but I'm sure she's struggling with this too and it's helpful to form a narrative that protects you and your decision.

The one exception was Christmas/her birthday. As I wrote about on this site, I did send her an email and covers of two songs (I'm a musician) that meant a lot to us. She responded, "Thank you so much for your email. It meant a lot to me."

Was there some magic bullet out there in the ether that could have gotten her to agree to sit down with me and work on this? Probably, but it would have been almost impossible to get all the steps right in order for that to happen. A friend told me that her contacting me might actually increase from this point forward. Do you all agree? My friend thinks she'll do so in order to work extra hard at getting to me to be her friend.

For anyone reading that's been through the entire divorce process, what steps need to be taken after we've both turned in our initial paperwork? I think where I live there is at least one more set of papers that need to be served (the discovery portion). I'm trying to figure out the next steps I want to take in my life, but I want to be available for anything needed for the divorce.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Definitely a rough day but I'm trying my best to hang in there.
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post #53 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 04:46 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

Let her coworker's wife know they are carrying on an affair.
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post #54 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 06:07 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

She wants to be friends with you because SHE did you wrong and she knows it.

This is classic ILYBANILWY. She loves what you were to her. What you represented to her. The rest is all smoke screening.....Gaslighting is the proper term.

She remains fond....of you. But she is not in love with you....anymore. She has a conscience. Her Jimminy Cricket is screaming in her ear. He is telling her that "She done her man wrong".

She has done you wrong. And she knows it. The bit about your co-worker, the one that you were friendly with? She is using that FIG-ment leaf to cover her own cheating puzzy.

When you sign the Divorce papers, Box them, wrap them in a Red Flag. Add a note. Tell her that she left a lot of them around. Tell her that "Nice guys do not finish last, fools do. And you are no longer in last place".

Let her ponder that. Never explain the logic. She will have a lifetime to think on that one. Every time she looks at that paper and the flag. Hopefully, she blushes Red. Hope is thin ice, here....and she lives in Canada, too.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #55 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Let her coworker's wife know they are carrying on an affair.
Hmm, I guess I could, but what if I'm wrong? What if she's calling his number but getting advice from him and his wife. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of positive outcome it would create.

It's tempting though, to plant that seed and just see what the fallout is. The degree of contact is pretty staggering. Since she moved out she's only really communicated with him. And I mean, a lot. Dialed and received calls going out at all times of the day, 3am, 4am, 5am.

My theory is that he's interested in her beyond emotional support and she's too naive to see it (she was terrible about knowing when guys were interested/hitting on her when we were together). He definitely sent signals like telling her she looked "really good in a bikini" at his birthday party. I don't know, how would I even approach such a thing? Just send her a message on Facebook? Mail her a copy of the phone records? It seems like a zero-sum game.

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post #56 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 06:23 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

Just tell her that you see concerning signs. Let HER investigate her husband. Chances are, she'll just tell you that she's aware her husband is a cheater and she's decided to accept it, to keep the money flowing.

What matters here is your REAL plan. Leave? Just focus on what gets you the most money in the end. Try to keep her? Expose and fight for the marriage. You have to know what your plan is.
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post #57 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Just tell her that you see concerning signs. Let HER investigate her husband. Chances are, she'll just tell you that she's aware her husband is a cheater and she's decided to accept it, to keep the money flowing.

What matters here is your REAL plan. Leave? Just focus on what gets you the most money in the end. Try to keep her? Expose and fight for the marriage. You have to know what your plan is.
Thanks for the input.

In terms of my plan... we already live apart and have for the past 4 months. I'm not really concerned with fighting over money. I would love to keep her, but at this point... I'm at a loss for what else I could do. I guess I could take a chance that cheating is happening and expose it, but I'm not sure even that would have the desired effect.

You've given me something to think about though. Definitely trying to figure this all out.
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post #58 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:03 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Just tell her that you see concerning signs. Let HER investigate her husband. Chances are, she'll just tell you that she's aware her husband is a cheater and she's decided to accept it, to keep the money flowing.

What matters here is your REAL plan. Leave? Just focus on what gets you the most money in the end. Try to keep her? Expose and fight for the marriage. You have to know what your plan is.
I agree with this.

I forgot what movie I saw this in.

Who starred in it.

Ann Turner
Alice Turner
Abby Turner
Angela Turner
Adelaide Turner
Amelia Turner
Artel Turner


Lana Turner, yes, that's who it was.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #59 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 09:58 PM
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

Anything your ex does now is for your attention and to see if she still has you on her hook. I wouldn't be messaging any of my friends, male or female, at the time she's messaging her co-worker. And, if I was receiving messages from friends at that time, I would be very ticked off. Maybe speak to his wife and just say "I think its nice that youre both there for her around the clock". That's enough to make her think but I'm not one for thinking you can meddle in somebody else's marriage without solid proof (even if they are doing wrong).
As for the crochet thing at new year, she wants to show you she's not going to any wild parties or anything like that. Might be to restore your faith in her or it might be so you feel sorry for her. She might not even know why she's doing it. Try not to read too much into it. The only way youre going to know if she is genuine is if you do the no contact. She knows she has you there so she's still not being given experience of what its like not to have you there. Next time she reaches out, just write something along the lines of what I did. "I'm sorry but this is too hard for me and I have to start putting me first. For that, I need to respect myself and distance myself from you. You moved out and I don't even know the real reason. I have to start piecing my life back together and as the divorce is a reality, I need to do it without you. I cant be there for you, I haven't got the time or the energy"
After I sent mine, my ex sent me another message asking me why I was so bothered and i think he did it to test if I was going to be true to my word. I did message him back (stupidly and with an essay) thinking "ah, ive got his attention" when really he was just checking if he still had mine). Ive told you that because you probably will get messages from her but unless its about business, dont respond. That's the only way youre going to br able to reflect on things without going crazy. And if she isn't around after the NC period, she was never going to be. Hope this helps. Its easy to help with someone else because emotions aren't involved so you can be objective. I urge you to think about this and remember that NC is trying to help you get to a less emotive state so you can be more objective
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post #60 of 145 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mixed signals and false starts

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Anything your ex does now is for your attention and to see if she still has you on her hook. I wouldn't be messaging any of my friends, male or female, at the time she's messaging her co-worker. And, if I was receiving messages from friends at that time, I would be very ticked off. Maybe speak to his wife and just say "I think its nice that youre both there for her around the clock". That's enough to make her think but I'm not one for thinking you can meddle in somebody else's marriage without solid proof (even if they are doing wrong).
As for the crochet thing at new year, she wants to show you she's not going to any wild parties or anything like that. Might be to restore your faith in her or it might be so you feel sorry for her. She might not even know why she's doing it. Try not to read too much into it. The only way youre going to know if she is genuine is if you do the no contact. She knows she has you there so she's still not being given experience of what its like not to have you there. Next time she reaches out, just write something along the lines of what I did. "I'm sorry but this is too hard for me and I have to start putting me first. For that, I need to respect myself and distance myself from you. You moved out and I don't even know the real reason. I have to start piecing my life back together and as the divorce is a reality, I need to do it without you. I cant be there for you, I haven't got the time or the energy"
After I sent mine, my ex sent me another message asking me why I was so bothered and i think he did it to test if I was going to be true to my word. I did message him back (stupidly and with an essay) thinking "ah, ive got his attention" when really he was just checking if he still had mine). Ive told you that because you probably will get messages from her but unless its about business, dont respond. That's the only way youre going to br able to reflect on things without going crazy. And if she isn't around after the NC period, she was never going to be. Hope this helps. Its easy to help with someone else because emotions aren't involved so you can be objective. I urge you to think about this and remember that NC is trying to help you get to a less emotive state so you can be more objective
Wonderful advice indeed.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the crocheting—things like that (and reaching out on Halloween) were to show me that she's still the same person she's always been and probably a little bit to make me feel bad that it's her life now.

I thought about the longest we've gone with absolutely no contact up to this point and it was around 9 days. That's really nothing when I think about it, even though it felt like an eternity. We really haven't given ourselves the chance to see what life is like without one another. I talked with my therapist last night and basically said that after I sign off on the divorce I'm going to give it a solid month without anything. At that point, it's like you said; either she'll reach out to me or she never will.

Your text is spot on and I'll likely use something along those lines the next time she reaches out about something other than business. You're right, it's all about checking in to see if my attention is still firmly under her control and sadly, it has been up to this point.

I really don't know what to make of the contact with the married coworker. It's possible it's something more than friendship or shop talk (they're both graphic designers as is his wife), but I don't think that really fits.

Thanks again for your words, they are very helpful.
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