Low day - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 09:17 AM
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Re: Low day

You had two things going against you. First, you married one of those 'enveloped' people - enveloped into his family, without whom he can't survive and whom he expects to be daily parts of his life. HE can't fathom someone who is NOT like that; so he expected you to turn into that type of person. And blamed you when you didn't.

Second, you married a controller. A person who survives by manipulating people to push them around to his way of thinking and doing through guilt, blame, anger, and irrationality. This book might help you understand: Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft, Paperback | Barnes & Noble®

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your opinions and chiming in.

For those of you that think I should leave, I have. I have no intention of going back ever. Maybe I should have left long ago. But again hindsight is 20/20.

Those that think he was controlling, you maybe right. I will never know. But how could an entire family be narcissistic right? Maybe I over read everything. They used to say that "their family solves problems together". They are more "open" with their issues unlike my family. The odd thing is though we had a conversation during our dates where he specifically told me that having lived independently for many years he makes his own decisions. Who knew that wasn't true.

For those that think I looked for the most romantic person, I didn't. I looked for someone who was an adult, had a job, valued education like I do, etc. Now the way I judged these things could have been wrong. I tend to believe people at face value. I may never do that again. But I did know that the honeymoon period wouldn't last forever. I did do the laundry and the day to day grind. But essentially all the things people say made me stay longer. So when he was sick and I made him soup and he yelled at me because the soup wasn't warm enough - I attributed that to "trials and tribulations" of marriage and tried harder. When he criticized me for not chopping the onions right, or getting the right can of beans, I attributed that to -oh we are just learning to live together and I tried harder to make it work. He and his family tried to "spoil me" when he was in a good mood. He bought me expensive things. I unfortunately didn't care much for material things and conveyed that it doesn't make me feel loved. But they interpreted that as me being unappreciative. And yes I suggested marriage counselling early into our problems. By the time he got around to agreeing too much had been said and divorce had been threatened by him too many times.

Maybe I had a higher self esteem than he anticipated. Maybe I am more stubborn than I think. The curious thing is, he didn't have to marry me. There are many many girls out there that would have been okay with meeting his expectations.

And for the person who spoke of acceptance, that is something I struggle with on some days. Particularly on my low days. I'm working on it though
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:10 PM
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Re: Low day

You sound like a reasonable person. In other words, maybe he was the problem. I'd like to suggest for you to read about personality disorders. That might help you make sense out of this and give closure to this chapter of your life.

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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 02:39 PM
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Re: Low day

Hi MUCC,

You are right not to go back into the marriage, he would have eventually destroyed your self esteem and who you are.
That level of lack of boundaries in a family is not normal. Yes, some families share information and help one another out as a sounding board but do not get directly involved in a couples ups and downs, sounds like he and the mother are inseperable and noone can match up to her.

Get yourself some IC to help you work through whatever issues you have,
see a lawyer and file for divorce.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 02:50 PM
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Re: Low day

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Originally Posted by Mucc View Post
Thank you all for your opinions and chiming in.

For those of you that think I should leave, I have. I have no intention of going back ever. Maybe I should have left long ago. But again hindsight is 20/20.

Those that think he was controlling, you maybe right. I will never know. But how could an entire family be narcissistic right? Maybe I over read everything. They used to say that "their family solves problems together". They are more "open" with their issues unlike my family. The odd thing is though we had a conversation during our dates where he specifically told me that having lived independently for many years he makes his own decisions. Who knew that wasn't true.

For those that think I looked for the most romantic person, I didn't. I looked for someone who was an adult, had a job, valued education like I do, etc. Now the way I judged these things could have been wrong. I tend to believe people at face value. I may never do that again. But I did know that the honeymoon period wouldn't last forever. I did do the laundry and the day to day grind. But essentially all the things people say made me stay longer. So when he was sick and I made him soup and he yelled at me because the soup wasn't warm enough - I attributed that to "trials and tribulations" of marriage and tried harder. When he criticized me for not chopping the onions right, or getting the right can of beans, I attributed that to -oh we are just learning to live together and I tried harder to make it work. He and his family tried to "spoil me" when he was in a good mood. He bought me expensive things. I unfortunately didn't care much for material things and conveyed that it doesn't make me feel loved. But they interpreted that as me being unappreciative. And yes I suggested marriage counselling early into our problems. By the time he got around to agreeing too much had been said and divorce had been threatened by him too many times.

Maybe I had a higher self esteem than he anticipated. Maybe I am more stubborn than I think. The curious thing is, he didn't have to marry me. There are many many girls out there that would have been okay with meeting his expectations.

And for the person who spoke of acceptance, that is something I struggle with on some days. Particularly on my low days. I'm working on it though
What is is cultural background? Eastern cultures are primarily based on family, collective, western are primarily individualistic. It's possible his point of view, which is about 75% of the planet when you get married you are expected to assimilate into the family. That is very much how it works.
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the support everyone.

I like to think I'm sort of reasonable but because that was questioned by my ex and his family, I worry that maybe I missed something. I also worry that I look at everything from my biased point of view and therefore overlooked what I did. My ex would comment on how disrespectful I am. Of course I have my flaws. I even told him when we were dating that I can be stubborn at times.

I know all about personality disorders. I'm a physician. And I tend to think that we all have some traits of narcissism, myself included. In fact some of it is healthy. But of course, whether he has it to an abnormal level, I can't quite say ethically because I'm obviously biased.

We are both from eastern cultures and I understand that our families are more involved. Perhaps our definition of what "integration" into family meant was different. Except....we talked about it, so I thought he and I were on the same page. And therefore, I felt slightly bullied with the whole - I am going to tell my mother all the anguish you cause me on a daily basis. I felt like my own partner was demeaning me and when I conveyed that to him he repeatedly told me I was too sensitive and his mother had every right to be involved in her child'/ wellbeing. The whole family claimed that is how families solve issues.


It's hard because I have never encountered anyone in my life (including ex boyfriends) who was belittling. I mean you have differences with people. You either find common ground or you agree to disagree.

I have been in counselling for a year and it has helped. I guess I just sometimes fall into the trap of revisiting old memories. I guess I should be thankful for the wonderful family I do have.

Sigh, it would be nice if I was able to close the chapter and fast forward time.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 04:20 PM
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Re: Low day

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Perhaps our definition of what "integration" into family meant was different. Except....we talked about it, so I thought he and I were on the same page. And therefore, I felt slightly bullied with the whole - I am going to tell my mother all the anguish you cause me on a daily basis. I felt like my own partner was demeaning me and when I conveyed that to him he repeatedly told me I was too sensitive and his mother had every right to be involved in her child'/ wellbeing. The whole family claimed that is how families solve issues.
Like I said, you married into an 'enveloped' family. They will never change. HE might change, but only if YOU changed and started protecting yourself with boundaries and consequences.

Example "You're too sensitive, I'm going to tell my mother everything that goes on in our marriage"

You: "Well, I guess you're going to run out of stuff pretty quickly then to talk about because I didn't marry your mother, and if you insist on including her, you'll be doing it alone."

I'm telling you this because it's a fair bet that you attracted that type of guy and you may end up with another one.
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Yea, I didn't recognize how intertwined they were as a family until after the wedding when all the "expectations changed" - according to him.

We lived in a different city than his family and only visited his family on weekend every 2-3 months prior to the wedding. During those visits, there was no overpowering family traits, I could identify. We discussed how involved his family is in his relationships and he said he doesn't discuss his relationship status with his family unless it's serious. I guess in my naivety I assume don't that to be independent decision making.

Boundaries were made clear to him by myself and by my parents when they were called. It was reiterated to him and his family that their "methods" aren't working in our marriage. He would sometimes stop for a month or two after a particularly nasty fight but then would go right back to it. So of course we barely lasted a year because I was tired of him threatening to end the marriage with each fight and asking me to pack my bags. The back and forth really stressed me out and it was like a roller coaster that I couldn't get off until I left for good.

I'm a fairly independent and successful girl, and I tend to draw boundaries. It is baffling how I let them violate some of them in an effort to try harder - because I believed that we were just trying to adjust to each other's lifestyle. I'm so gun shy that the next time someone calls their mother and I'm probably walking away (it's an exaggeration but it is scary)
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 05:58 PM
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Re: Low day

What did the mother gain with this divorce? Could it be something that you're not aware it exists?

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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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No idea if him, his mother or the rest of the family gained anything from the divorce. It's not like they ever had any objections to the marriage on the first place.

Of course I'm yet to file and according to my lawyer, there isn't that much to claim from me since I don't have assets/property and we were only together for a year. But who knows what can transpire. I trust no one anymore after my experience with this family. They have shown disregard for general human politeness throughout this ordeal and been petty (like they threw out stuff that had sentimental value for me before I went back to pick up stuff from the house). So I expect them to create drama.

Is there something else they gained? I guess I can't see what? Mind you we have no common friends, because he wasn't very social and we never built a social circle in the one year. So we essentially have no idea what the other person is doing/upto. All I know is that he sold the house he had bought when we got married and moved back to where his family lives. we don't even live in the same city.

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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 07:32 PM
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Re: Low day

Ok so they wanted him living with them but why?

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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 07:34 PM
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Re: Low day

Did they get a financial benefit from the sale of the house?

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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Low day

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Ok so they wanted him living with them but why?

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I just figure it's the usual - how all mothers want their kids living near them. But he already had been working in the city we met in for 5 years prior to us meeting. And I was going to shortly move to that city for a 5 year training (I made him aware that once I move to that city, I am stuck for 5 years until my training is complete).

But then he lost his job soon after our engagement. He also decided to buy a very expensive (Over 700k $$) house soon after our engagement and before loss of his job. I was hesitant to buy the house because we weren't married/ hadn't figured out our joint finances/weren't living together at this time. I didn't particularly like the house either and said we should wait. But his family wanted everything "set" by the time we were married. And since they decided to put a chunk down for the downpayment, he and his family decided to buy the house anyway (He bought it with his brother I later found out). But since I didn't pay for the downpayment/couldn't afford the mortgage anyway, who was I to say anything about what his family was buying. Plus they told me they were doing all of it for ME, so I wouldn't have to live in a rental place after the wedding (although I didn't quite see a problem with that, I could have lived in a one bedroom rental apartment) but they INSISTED we have everything set up before wedding. Anyway he was very upset that I wasn't being a supportive fiance, so I let it go and didn't bother with the rest of the house purchase.

A couple of months after that he lost his job and around this time our problems began. I sort of attributed it to financial stress and with the wedding only 3 months away at this point, I thought that was adding to the stress. So I tried to minimize conflict but when we did disagree it was that whole ordeal with his mother getting involved and then getting my parents involved. My parents are happy to give advice but kept insisting that we solve our own problems and advised his mother to stay out of it too. All efforts from my parents were in vain. Now I guess one could argue that I should have walked away during those episodes, but like I said - I attributed a lot of it to his stress, adjusting to living together and just general pre-wedding stress. I therefore tried to work harder on finding common ground. In hindsight, it obviously was not working.

Did they have financial gain from the sale of the house? I don't know for sure because I was not involved in any transaction of the sale of the house. Because he had bought the house with his brother, legally he does not need my approval to sell the house. But given that the market had fallen since the house was bought, and that he sold it less than 2 years after purchase during a low market, I would guess they would have incurred some losses. How much...I am not sure.
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:30 PM
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Re: Low day

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I never understood why my relationship went from a whirlwind romance, a proposal in Paris, to you are the biggest b**** on planet earth. You cry too much. You don't chop the green peppers right. You shouldn't hug male friends. You don't call my mom enough. You don't integrate into my family etc etc etc.

What I seriously fail to understand is - why/how our arguments escalated so much. Like we were both very highly educated people. you would think all those years in international universities gave us some wisdom to solve our own problems. I just don't understand what he gained from this process.
Education is generally backwards in most places. It should be called conditioning. Just recently dropped an Economics paper because all through the material there was the expectation that the student adopt, without critique/critical analysis, their worldview. Then it would be explained later, in terms of that worldview, why the assumptions are correct. In science this is actually known as circular reasoning. It sales it is known as a "con job".


Relevance to your OP and the quoted material?
You'll see a common theme in most of my posts that highlights the dissonance between "public expectation" and "private reality".
Clearly, your partner (and likely yourself) had a whole bunch of unspoken expectations - basically a secret unspoken agenda. Many of these would not have been deliberately examined and likely to just be assumed that your partner would comply with these unquantified unexamined targets. ...just like "education", you think you're going to learn something (public expectation), but really you're just expected to obey and conform to their expectations (private reality). they tell you that you're learning things, but do you actually know how to examine the basic fundamentals to prove them? Or would you find yourself falling on to the conditioning you've been given to explain your worldview.

eg in my case I needed my partner to communicate with my parents because my family has a group of centralised Trust funds collectively worth more than a few million dollars. It is the inherited expectation that each generation will establish their own, with a kickstart from their parents. These funds act as guarantors for childrens borrowing, and bridging finance for those loans in times of trouble (eg redundancy), and even for startup loans - there are rules; such as each loan must be financially viable, there is no provision for consumables or lifestyle, or even for things like total education funding (it will cover a few papers or certifications in emergency, as a loan). Connecting into such a family requires learning some of the business and finance rules, and proving that as a potential partner and future principal, that a person has to be able to get along with others, communicate openly and fully, and participate in shared goals. Learning to navigate the mother-in-law is essential in such families .... something my ex-partner just couldn't grasp (for my ex, everything was about her - her words said "family" but her actions said "I'm the central Mum")
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:56 PM
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Re: Low day

Why do you think he allowed all of this to happen if it's leading to a divorce?

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