Low day - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Low day

I am just having a bit of a low day and venting.

I am almost at the end of my one year separation and I can't wait to file because then it will mean end of this chapter of my life.

Sometimes when I am having low days though, I try to "make sense" of it all. The funny part is - the logical part of my brain KNOWS that I will never make any sense of it all.

I never understood why my relationship went from a whirlwind romance, a proposal in Paris, to you are the biggest b**** on planet earth. You cry too much. You don't chop the green peppers right. You shouldn't hug male friends. You don't call my mom enough. You don't integrate into my family etc etc etc.

What I seriously fail to understand is - why/how our arguments escalated so much. Like we were both very highly educated people. you would think all those years in international universities gave us some wisdom to solve our own problems. I just don't understand what he gained from this process. What did injecting his mother into each argument achieve? What was to be gained from phone calls going to my parents from his mother after each fight? I mean who even does that? We were not 18. It ruined all relationships involved. And eventually all the bitterness ended up ruining a marriage within 1 year. I mean what did he achieve?

He is separated. He moved back to his hometown and had to move back in with his brother, sister-in-law, mom, dad and nephews and nieces after having lived independently in a different city for many years. But of course, its their house. Maybe he does feel happier there. I just don't understand what you gain from destroying your own relationship. I doubt his sister-in-law gives him the priority that I gave him as my husband.

I honestly keep going back over and over again to figure out what I did that turned a switch in a different direction. I just can't figure it out. It's so frustrating. Apparently, my expectations were too high.

Ugh, okay I am just rambling now. Just needed to get it off my chest today. I know no one has answers or solutions to this crazy thing called life...

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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:15 AM
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Re: Low day

Universities don't teach people common sense, or how to be a decent person. Or anything useful really.

I can sympathize. It does make one wander what went wrong, and if all the trouble could have been avoided somehow. I take it he doesn't want to fix the marriage?

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low day

Yea, you are right. Universities do not teach you how to be human. Sigh, it is just that the rationale part of my brain wants a logical flow of events.

It kills me because I wasn't 'young and naive'. I KNEW marriage was hard work. And I worked HARD. I can't figure out what more I could have done/given without compromising my values as an individual. I thought we had sat down and chatted about our values and ideals going forward into the marriage as adults. What else does one do?

I have nothing to blame but my lack of judgment? Ugh
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:32 AM
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Re: Low day

He sounds like he has major issues and with control.
Maybe he couldn't cut the apron strings, I mean who gets their mother involved in their adult relationship, it is bizarre.

Are you from another culture?
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low day

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I take it he doesn't want to fix the marriage?
There is no fixing the marriage. I wouldn't go back to him even if he paid me to do so.

The last time I had a conversation with him face to face - He said he wanted "heal both our hurt" etc. (This was 2 days after he had asked for divorce). He then launched into a long drawn conversation - the details of which are a blurr because he sort of used to say the same spiel after every fight. Anyway I conveyed to him that he is disrespectful and condescending when he speaks. At that point - he proceeded to call his mother and stated that anything else I wanted to say about the marriage would have to be while his mother was on speaker. I decided I wasn't married to his mother, so I said nothing more. He shut the bedroom door and locked himself that night. I went to work the next morning, when I came back - he had packed his bags and was gone - completely changed cities. That was the end of any conversation about marriage. This was back in early April. I haven't seen him since then.

I have had two correspondence with him since - One via his realtor, letting me know that he is selling the house and that I need to move out (this was shortly after he left) and second time he emailed to tell me not to make any holes in his wall as I move out.

I cannot ever go back to the marriage because I couldn't forgive him for saying nasty things about my parents, or telling me I make no sense because English is my second language, or for hypothesizing that my previous relationships prior to him must have failed because how crazy and borderline I am, or for saying "the dent in your head must be the reason you are crazy", or for asking me to go back to my ex boyfriends etc etc. Some words, you say, you cannot take back. It scars your relationship forever. And although I understand that people say hurtful things when emotions run high, some of these hurtful statements were repeats from a previous fight, so he was aware that they were cruel things to say to someone. When someone takes your insecurities, innocent information about you and turns them into cruel/mean things during a fight, you lose respect for them. I couldn't go back to someone who belittled me constantly to his mother.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low day

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He sounds like he has major issues and with control.
Maybe he couldn't cut the apron strings, I mean who gets their mother involved in their adult relationship, it is bizarre.

Are you from another culture?
It IS bizarre. Even for my culture where family is more involved sometimes. For example, I might go to my parents for advice regarding something, but my parents would never call my SO or for heaven's sake their family to "complain" about the behaviour that upset me.

It made NO sense to me or my parents. I cut him a lot of slack because he lost his job 4 months before the wedding and struggled with finding employment for the rest of the time we were married - I thought some of his outbursts were results of his job struggles. He would constantly tell me how I do not understand him because I have a job and I have the reason to go out of the house everyday and meet other people. I tried to give him company ALL the time. Whenever I wasn't at work, I came home to give him company. But maybe I truly didn't understand what he expected from me...I dont know.
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 02:07 AM
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Re: Low day

I understand how you feel. I don't know what my STBXH told his family but after 20 plus years I have heard NOTHING from any of them. They showed me who they are and I believe them.

I'm sorry you are hurting but it does get better. I have been separated for about 5 months now. I wouldn't take mine back either. When I reflect on what I was put through, it just makes me cringe.

Are you in counselling? I am and it helps. I don't want to repeat this type of relationship again....ever.
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 05:00 AM
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Re: Low day

hmmm...words are just words remember. I get you that you can't take them back and that they can ring in your head forever but they are just words. Actions are really the voice of the heart.

I get you with two intelligent folks not being able to solve their own issues. Reflecting on my own life, we both hold advanced degrees but once you get caught up in emotions I feel it is easy to lose control and get into a nasty cycle. Unfortunately something just needed to happen for you to step back and see how you both got caught up in it and your reactions fed off of one another. Let me guess, the arguments would just build and get worse each time as they continued to feed off of the last?

Personally, if words are the worst offense I think you could reconcile if you want to. Yeah, people say stuff all the time, and even more behind your back probably, but at the end of the day life is too short and actions mean everything.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 06:09 AM
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Cool Re: Low day

"Thinking" prior to uttering such nasty and unsettling thoughts to your partner would definitely be a step in the right direction!

IMHO, cognitive thought and communication is a sure sign of emotional maturity!

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 07:20 AM
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Re: Low day

Education does not necessarily relate to maturity... learned in life is so much more difficult because it is not scripted.

Being right is sometimes more important that being... bringing in family to settle your differences is a "go nuclear" option when all other controls in arguments have failed and over time it whittles away the respect because the intimate privacy needed to be open with trust, forgive, and heal is taken away, leaving growth in our relationships stunted.

It may be a healthy enough relationship in his connection with family for him alone, but unless he can detach from relying on their involvement and reattach to relying on your marriage on a mutual respect level, you may not find any progress to repair things. For that, he would have to release his insecurities that have built over a lifetime in many ways.

Whirlwinds are fast moving and often full of debris unseen until they pass... absent acceptances tend to be expectations unsaid, it sounds like there were many things not communicated in your time together as you moved quickly. Words as weapons in anger show more than we often care to show of our ugly side. When someone uses them with us, realize the intent is to direct the problem away from where the true struggle lies... within themselves.

Since he will not communicate directly to you, the path from here is yours, especially since it sounds as if you have made your choice not to continue. As frustrating as today is, take another step toward tomorrow's peace... it will come.

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:25 AM
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Re: Low day

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Originally Posted by Mucc View Post
There is no fixing the marriage. I wouldn't go back to him even if he paid me to do so.

The last time I had a conversation with him face to face - He said he wanted "heal both our hurt" etc. (This was 2 days after he had asked for divorce). He then launched into a long drawn conversation - the details of which are a blurr because he sort of used to say the same spiel after every fight. Anyway I conveyed to him that he is disrespectful and condescending when he speaks. At that point - he proceeded to call his mother and stated that anything else I wanted to say about the marriage would have to be while his mother was on speaker.
OP, you did the right thing. Your H putting his mother on speakerphone when the two of you are having an argument is childish and ridiculous. Is he not adult enough to settle his problems himself? Is he going to put his mom on speakerphone if he has to deal with a lawyer, or the police?

It sounds like he criticized you constantly. Let him go find some other person who lives up to his unrealistic ideals. No one should have to tolerate disrespect or condescending attitudes in a relationship. Oh and I just reread your post. So his mother also called YOUR PARENTS after you guys fought. OMG. Doesn't sound like there is anything you could have done differently. HE put the kibosh on this marriage.

Last edited by bluezone; 12-07-2016 at 06:49 AM.
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:33 AM
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Re: Low day

Whirlwind romance, proposal in Paris, devaluation in the honeymoon phase.
Covert aggressive behavior, unhealthy attachment to mother, using your own words/insecurities against you in arguments to "win".

Maybe check out this article about covert narcissism and see if your ex has any more of these patterns and characteristics https://luckyottershaven.com/2015/05...rt-narcissist/

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:55 AM
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Re: Low day

He married you when on the Island of Endorphin.

You don't remember being married there? He was "there"; you were in the rock solid Chapel.

Endorphin has a half life of six months for most newlyweds. It depends on one's "Elimination Rate".

His rate is very short, as is his temper...his temp-her.

Once his "spell" ended, he eliminated you. He married you on that high. Highs always go downhill.....later.

His family, The Munsters did not like you from the start. Your normal quirks would not open the family stone cold vault. You hair cut reflected back in their mirror. You were alive, flesh and blood.

They are moribund, zombies with a crooked smile and slanted outlook.

His family "outed" you.

Thank your Lucky Stars.

They demanded that he return home to the hotel, "The Hotel California".

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 09:05 AM
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Re: Low day

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I never understood why my relationship went from a whirlwind romance, a proposal in Paris, to you are the biggest b**** on planet earth. You cry too much. You don't chop the green peppers right. You shouldn't hug male friends. You don't call my mom enough. You don't integrate into my family etc etc etc.
Sounds like a lot of your love was based on the emotional high of the newness of the relationship. That is only the first stage of love and the most basic part of marriage. You need to have the stronger stage that involves intense bonding. It is not as emotional but it is kind of like how concrete hardens. Here is the thing when you are in that early euphoric stage you miss a lot of signs so maybe he was just a jerk, at the very least you didn't fit well as far a living your life together. Marriage is way more then just dating in Paris, it's washing each others underwear, and smelling there morning breath too. You have to love deep enough to even love that. It's taking care of each-other when you are sick, working together to build a family. You need to look for a life partner, not just the most romantic guy around. Romance is nice but really if you know how to do it, it's easy. Living with someone who is grumpy at times and pushes your last nerve and not just telling them to F off, is much harder.

Also never marry someone for what they do for you, only marry them for what you want to do for them. If you feel the same way you will have a good marriage. Maybe this guy just didn't have it in him. Doesn't mean someone else won't. Work on your emotional intelligence, and pick someone who also has that. That will make it easier, but the biggest factor in success in marriage is picking the right person. The biggest factor in picking the right person is picking someone with character. When you are pissed as hell at your spouse and don't want to have to change, but have character enough to think about it from your spouses position. Then actually get that maybe you are not all knowing. When you realize THAT and are willing to eat crow and change. That is character and that is what it takes to have a good marriage.

You may have been educated (which sounds condescending by the way) but you didn't educate yourself on what is important in picking a mate. Collage doesn't teach you that. You have to do that yourself so you make a better choice next time.

I have to laugh, you must be young. Universities don't teach wisdom, they only teach knowledge. Come back to me in 20 years and let me know how much wisdom you got from your school.

Last edited by sokillme; 12-06-2016 at 09:15 AM.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 09:07 AM
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Re: Low day

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I am just having a bit of a low day and venting.

I am almost at the end of my one year separation and I can't wait to file because then it will mean end of this chapter of my life.

Sometimes when I am having low days though, I try to "make sense" of it all. The funny part is - the logical part of my brain KNOWS that I will never make any sense of it all.

I never understood why my relationship went from a whirlwind romance, a proposal in Paris, to you are the biggest b**** on planet earth. You cry too much. You don't chop the green peppers right. You shouldn't hug male friends. You don't call my mom enough. You don't integrate into my family etc etc etc.

What I seriously fail to understand is - why/how our arguments escalated so much. Like we were both very highly educated people. you would think all those years in international universities gave us some wisdom to solve our own problems. I just don't understand what he gained from this process. What did injecting his mother into each argument achieve? What was to be gained from phone calls going to my parents from his mother after each fight? I mean who even does that? We were not 18. It ruined all relationships involved. And eventually all the bitterness ended up ruining a marriage within 1 year. I mean what did he achieve?

He is separated. He moved back to his hometown and had to move back in with his brother, sister-in-law, mom, dad and nephews and nieces after having lived independently in a different city for many years. But of course, its their house. Maybe he does feel happier there. I just don't understand what you gain from destroying your own relationship. I doubt his sister-in-law gives him the priority that I gave him as my husband.

I honestly keep going back over and over again to figure out what I did that turned a switch in a different direction. I just can't figure it out. It's so frustrating. Apparently, my expectations were too high.

Ugh, okay I am just rambling now. Just needed to get it off my chest today. I know no one has answers or solutions to this crazy thing called life...
The answers are there for you, obvious even. The problem is lack of acceptance.

Have you ever wondered why you have to argue, at all? You believe and participate in a connection destroying romantic system. Reality doesn't have to make sense. However, reality imposes consequences whether or not you understand it.

Too high expectations? Again, I disagree. You could have so much more than you expected, as long as you didn't expect endless infatuation. What could be realized is cooperative problem solving. These aren't myths. These aren't conditional (only) upon finding mr or Mrs right.

What to Do? Start by conforming to reality and then the process of it making sense will come. For instance, our minds cannot understand quantum mechanics, but we have research that dispits results, no matter how confounding and contradictory to relativity, etc. It is.In relationships, there are things you have to do and hings that must not be done to maintain connection.

You can come here for advice. You can go earn a PhD in Psychology and still come forth with these questions. But what all need to do is form the emotional competencies that engender positive life outcomes. Raw logic is going to get few people very far in life. It can even be counterproductive, in certain instances.

You don't need to know that 2+2=4, analagously, but how to get to that result. Also, you have to learn to easily get to that result no matter what emotional environment is encountered.

I'm here to tell you that the answers and understAnding are out there. With this comes the peace of mind you so desperately desire. This is good news.

Best,
RT


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