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post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: This is crazy

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post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 09:25 PM
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Re: This is crazy

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Originally Posted by holdmyground View Post
I have been trying to find that thread. The searches I did did not find it. I just found a couple comments she made. Help!

From what I am told by my lawyer, the STBXH has to prove that the money is sole and separate and I don't need to spend or do all that work. So, if he does not produce the clear evidence and money trail, it is CP. So if this is true, I don't want to do his work that may hurt me. My current lawyer says that the money trail is so old that she thinks it will be impossible to follow back that far, but I'm not depending on that. Behind the scenes I am doing some work and have discovered some things and I very stupidly told my lawyer and she told the CDFP.

Thank you all for your help! My stress leven is down some today and much of that is due to finding this site and you guys.

Also, I realized today that I need a lawyer that is very knowledgable re: commingled funds.
Find a new lawyer and you should file for divorce and get temp spousal support. Once in the system he will have to come up with the paperwork or face contempt charges. Right now he has no legal incentive to give up any paperwork and the longer this goes on the longer he has to hide cash etc.

He would rather keep being married and doing what he is doing as he knows divorce is going to cost him. Veryhurt endured a great deal of heartache and games with supposed trusts that didn't exist etc etc.

In my own divorce we dealt with an inheritance and premarital monies she claimed exempt and we had to trace a great deal of material back 15 years. She lost because of the co-mingling but it was a battle the entire way and still not complete. Your probably going to need a "blood and guts" lawyer, not a negotiator from the sounds of your stbx.

Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday
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post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 09:41 PM
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Re: This is crazy

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Good try, but:
holdmyground, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
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Maybe it's because it is a private members section?
You'll need 30 posts before you can access the private section or become a forum supporter.

Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday
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post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:12 AM
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Re: This is crazy

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I totally get this and you are right and I think about this.....BUT I think that the bottom line is that he has set things up so that he is almost totally protected. I have no fair share. Almost every community property asset turns out to be his. I am just now learning the full extent. So, in a community property state, if the husband can prove sole and separate, he gets it. As it stands now he will walk away with several million and I'll get maybe a hundred thousand. I do have my before marriage house and a decent IRA but that may impact spousal support.

This is what is freaking me out. I see now how he has planned this from the start. He stopped contributing to his IRA, he put only his name on house deeds (3 houses), he is claiming his trust fund went into his brokerage account and although some community money was also deposited, the vast portion is alleged to be sole and separate. And that impacts other assets, making them sole and separate.

If the husband has done this, will the courts follow the letter of the law and leave him with almost everything?

There is still his 401k, which he has not given statements for. And he has given no proof that the trust fund was what went into the brokerage account. But that money was deposited 2 years after we got married so I do not see how it will end up community.

What we are talking about is a large estate that has been carefully planned so the husband keeps it all. And I am 63, haven't worked in 18 years (at his request) and living on SS. So, maybe my lawyer isn't fighting for me to get more because there isn't more for me to get. What can a new lawyer do?

And I've been walking on eggshells.
So take a deep breath. Right not you are only in the first quarter. Now he has jumped to the lead but it is not insurmountable by any stretch. First things first get a bull dog of an attorney. The thing you have learned is you can no longer trust your husband. You are not fighting for yourself. I don't think you husband is a smart as he thinks he is though. He thinks he is just going to walk all over you. Don't let him, stop being afraid and start getting mad.
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post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:32 AM
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Re: This is crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdmyground View Post
Good try, but:
holdmyground, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting email activation.

Maybe it's because it is a private members section?
It's in the private member's section. You need 30 posts before you can read anything in that section.
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post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:38 AM
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Re: This is crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdmyground View Post
I totally get this and you are right and I think about this.....BUT I think that the bottom line is that he has set things up so that he is almost totally protected. I have no fair share. Almost every community property asset turns out to be his. I am just now learning the full extent. So, in a community property state, if the husband can prove sole and separate, he gets it. As it stands now he will walk away with several million and I'll get maybe a hundred thousand. I do have my before marriage house and a decent IRA but that may impact spousal support.

This is what is freaking me out. I see now how he has planned this from the start. He stopped contributing to his IRA, he put only his name on house deeds (3 houses), he is claiming his trust fund went into his brokerage account and although some community money was also deposited, the vast portion is alleged to be sole and separate. And that impacts other assets, making them sole and separate.

If the husband has done this, will the courts follow the letter of the law and leave him with almost everything?

There is still his 401k, which he has not given statements for. And he has given no proof that the trust fund was what went into the brokerage account. But that money was deposited 2 years after we got married so I do not see how it will end up community.

What we are talking about is a large estate that has been carefully planned so the husband keeps it all. And I am 63, haven't worked in 18 years (at his request) and living on SS. So, maybe my lawyer isn't fighting for me to get more because there isn't more for me to get. What can a new lawyer do?

And I've been walking on eggshells.
If your husband has not provided any financial papers, then how could he have proven that all the assets are his? A long history of financial records submitted to the court is required to prove this.

What can a new attorney do? They can get the paperwork and work their tail end off to prove that the assets are 50% yours. I have you a list of things to ask a new attorney to do.

You have an attorney telling you that everything belongs to him when he has submitted nothing to the courts/attorney. So the attorney you have is doing nothing for you.

Get an attorney that will fight for you.
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post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:41 AM
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Re: This is crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdmyground View Post
I have been trying to find that thread. The searches I did did not find it. I just found a couple comments she made. Help!

From what I am told by my lawyer, the STBXH has to prove that the money is sole and separate and I don't need to spend or do all that work. So, if he does not produce the clear evidence and money trail, it is CP. So if this is true, I don't want to do his work that may hurt me. My current lawyer says that the money trail is so old that she thinks it will be impossible to follow back that far, but I'm not depending on that. Behind the scenes I am doing some work and have discovered some things and I very stupidly told my lawyer and she told the CDFP.

Thank you all for your help! My stress leven is down some today and much of that is due to finding this site and you guys.

Also, I realized today that I need a lawyer that is very knowledgable re: commingled funds.
Did you provide paperwork to prove what you told the lawyer? Or did you just tell her verbally?

Yep, you need a new attorney.
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post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:44 AM
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Re: This is crazy

Has the divorce been filed yet?

Do not tell your husband that you are getting a new attorney. Let the new attorney take care of notifying him that you have a new attorney.

If you tell him before your new attorney is hired and gets the case setup, it only gives him more time to play games and hide things.
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post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:18 AM
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Re: This is crazy

I think by now you understand you need a new lawyer correct?

Are you still in the marital home? If you are do this, start searching for old bank records, find old tax filings, any financial papers you can. I doubt your husband has been planning this from the beginning, more likely the last few years. If you can find historic financials where he was co-mingeling funds I think you will have a better case. The trust fund account he had pre marriage is his, but only the amount that was in it, if you can show that account was drawn down and then new deposits were made that new money I believe is a marital asset.

Don't hesitate for a second firing the idiots who are currently representing you. Also I would withhold payment as long as possible, since there is such a difference in incomes a good attorney should be able to get at least part of your legal fees paid by your ex.

Keep in mind you are a little fish, hiring the largest law firm in town means nothing, they're not going to focus resources on your case, there's just not enough money in it. Hire a divorce specialist, read reviews, ask friends who they used, find that shark and let him/her feed on your husband.
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post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: This is crazy

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Did you provide paperwork to prove what you told the lawyer? Or did you just tell her verbally?

Yep, you need a new attorney.
I provided the paperwork. How do I find the right attorney? That is my challenge now. They have to be a fighter and also very familiar with commingling. This week I will start interviewing. I will have to ask them all the specific questions about my situation.

On Monday I meet with a different CDFP who I asked to figure the amount of CP in MY IRA. The result was very different that the horrible CDFP I am using now and am firing. The errors were in my husbands favor, of course. The new CDFP seemed to know a lot about the local attorneys so I am going to ask her for help finding one.

To clarify: Right now I have a lawyer and my STBXH and I are using a 'neutral' CDFP that I found who is destroying me and who cannot do a simple spreadsheet. My STBXH supposedly does not know I am using the lawyer. She is on retainer but is being used by me for questions and has not filed paperwork.

The CDFP started out saying things like "You're going to be fine, I have your back." The pre-settlement paperwork she gave me looked great. But as soon as my STBXH announced in the meeting that a huge chunk of money went into his brokerage fund that was trust fund money, all that changed and she told him that because he paid for things from that brokerage fund and even though there was CP money in that fund, everything he paid for out of that find was his sole and separate. She asked for no proof, but she and my husband agreed that it was trust fund money because what else could it be? We had only been married 2 years, he did have a trust fund, he did not make enough to have that kind of money back them. And then she was insisting that I agree (then and there) that the brokerage fund was entirely his sole and separate property. I refused. No mu STBXH is convinced that everything is his...I have no bargaining power at all thanks to this CDFP.

Now my attorney is planning to have lunch with her (the two have had quite a bit of contact during this process.) The purpose is for my attorney to feel out the CFDP and see if I can still get a fair shot at getting a fair settlement. But that makes no sense as the damage had been done and the attorney has tried to explain things before with no good results. The attorney is trying to say that evidence must be presented by my husband. However, now the attorney is backtracking on things like house ownership. The business about my name must be on the deed or it is his sole and separate is one example.

It's such a mess. And CP sure seems to work in favor of the person who set up the assets in their favor.

Thank you so much!!

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post #41 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: This is crazy

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Originally Posted by honcho View Post
Find a new lawyer and you should file for divorce and get temp spousal support. Once in the system he will have to come up with the paperwork or face contempt charges. Right now he has no legal incentive to give up any paperwork and the longer this goes on the longer he has to hide cash etc.

He would rather keep being married and doing what he is doing as he knows divorce is going to cost him. Veryhurt endured a great deal of heartache and games with supposed trusts that didn't exist etc etc.

In my own divorce we dealt with an inheritance and premarital monies she claimed exempt and we had to trace a great deal of material back 15 years. She lost because of the co-mingling but it was a battle the entire way and still not complete. Your probably going to need a "blood and guts" lawyer, not a negotiator from the sounds of your stbx.
You are correct, he has no incentive to do anything. I keep saying this and the CDFP says he wants this over and that is his incentive. Nonsense! He's doing whatever he wants and keeps all his money. I have no access to anything. He could go on like this for years. Actually, my stbx has not had to do a thing. He's out having fun. The CDFP is making sure he keeps everything. And until I talk to a new attorney, that may be the case.

Question: how much commingling was there? In my case, the account was started before marriage, a deposit of what everyone agrees is CP money was made 2 years after marriage that made up about 20% of the overall account balance. Is that enough to be commingling? It seems like an account can be completely commingled but as long as there is a paper trail then money in the account can be separated out and can be considered sole and separate. The bad news is that there was not much activity in the account. A few deposits and a few withdrawals. Three years after marriage there was the huge deposit that he says is trust fund, but it may be part trust fund and part other money. Who knows? It could be all trust fund, but if it goes into an account that already has some CP money in it, how does that work? And he has provided no evidence. And I have already found some money that he had hidden with his brother.
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post #42 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: This is crazy

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Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
I think by now you understand you need a new lawyer correct?

Are you still in the marital home? If you are do this, start searching for old bank records, find old tax filings, any financial papers you can. I doubt your husband has been planning this from the beginning, more likely the last few years. If you can find historic financials where he was co-mingeling funds I think you will have a better case. The trust fund account he had pre marriage is his, but only the amount that was in it, if you can show that account was drawn down and then new deposits were made that new money I believe is a marital asset.

Don't hesitate for a second firing the idiots who are currently representing you. Also I would withhold payment as long as possible, since there is such a difference in incomes a good attorney should be able to get at least part of your legal fees paid by your ex.

Keep in mind you are a little fish, hiring the largest law firm in town means nothing, they're not going to focus resources on your case, there's just not enough money in it. Hire a divorce specialist, read reviews, ask friends who they used, find that shark and let him/her feed on your husband.
I am in the home I bought before marriage. I have gotten my hands on every bit of paper I can. A lot of it seems to come down to one account. This account was started before marriage, them CP money was deposited 2 years after marriage (about 20% of the account) and then 3 years after marriage there was a huge deposit that he claims if trust fund money. However, there is no proof and he said previously that the trust fund was gone, spread over ACCOUNTS and who knows where and it was no longer an issue. Also, I found evidence that there was trust fund money in a trust account FIVE years after marriage. It is killing me that I can't remember how much he got. I remember he told me his first wife spent much of it, but he denies that now. I have to say I do not know how that large sum could be all or much CP...it was too soon after marriage for that kind of accumulation. Anyways, a house was paid for from that brokerage account and several other things (car, part of another house) so this is a big impact.
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post #43 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: This is crazy

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It's in the private member's section. You need 30 posts before you can read anything in that section.
LOL, I'll be there before long!!
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post #44 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:01 PM
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Re: This is crazy

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Originally Posted by holdmyground View Post
You are correct, he has no incentive to do anything. I keep saying this and the CDFP says he wants this over and that is his incentive. Nonsense! He's doing whatever he wants and keeps all his money. I have no access to anything. He could go on like this for years. Actually, my stbx has not had to do a thing. He's out having fun. The CDFP is making sure he keeps everything. And until I talk to a new attorney, that may be the case.

Question: how much commingling was there? In my case, the account was started before marriage, a deposit of what everyone agrees is CP money was made 2 years after marriage that made up about 20% of the overall account balance. Is that enough to be commingling? It seems like an account can be completely commingled but as long as there is a paper trail then money in the account can be separated out and can be considered sole and separate. The bad news is that there was not much activity in the account. A few deposits and a few withdrawals. Three years after marriage there was the huge deposit that he says is trust fund, but it may be part trust fund and part other money. Who knows? It could be all trust fund, but if it goes into an account that already has some CP money in it, how does that work? And he has provided no evidence. And I have already found some money that he had hidden with his brother.
In essence even a dollar of community monies put into an exempt account creates a now co-mingled account potentially losing it exemption. How co-mingling is handled is very dependent on your state and the judge. In general terms judges hate complicated accounting work in divorce, they understand law not balance sheets.

In my divorce as example my ex inherited stocks. Every year they received dividends/capital gains that we reinvested and reported and paid taxes on. Because community funds were used to pay taxes the exempt account became co-mingled so the judge ruled that half the stocks were community property because it was too much of a "hassle" as he put it to trace it all the detail over the years. Had to dividends/gains been paid out instead of reinvested and those funds used to pay the taxes the exempt account would have stayed exempt.

My ex owned a duplex prior to marriage. We kept it 2 years renting it out and because we reported rental income on taxes, rent payments and expenses were deposited/paid out of joint checking account. When sold we hard large capital gain reported on taxes and paid out of joint account. Judge ruled it all marital property because from the beginning there was no intent to keep the asset separate and trying to trace it all back almost 20 years was too much work, again the judges words.

My state is getting more aggressive/liberal in its interpretation of community property but each and every state is different and judges appear to have a wide interpretation on the law. This is why you need a good qualified lawyer who can defend your rights and who understands how judges in your area are interpreting the rules.

Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday
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