Entering Divorce proceedings - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
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post #46 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 06:40 PM
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
I wont be doing that, I see only issue being Alimony realistically since no real formulae in my state and can be left to judge to decide
Just saw this. Ok, so start writing down ideas on what is fair. Consider all the different factors. Retirement, current standard of living, kids' standard of living, taxes, who did what to help out the other get ahead, expected inheritances, likely future professional paths, etc.

Is it fair for you both to have the same $ to work with? Is it fair for one of you to pay for a few years so the other can get more training? Do both of you have good incomes already, thus the other doesn't have need for alimony (just desire for it)? It would be good to know what kinds of arrangements are customary where you live.

In the end, alimony should somehow be fair. Fair doesn't mean equal, just fair.

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post #47 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 07:01 PM
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Originally Posted by C3156 View Post
My ex did the same thing, like nothing was happening, very frustrating sexually. Got to the point I was feeling chafed from going out with Rosy Palmer to much, lol.

Remember, this is not your wife any longer, it is just a person that you are completing a business deal. Try to keep your feelings and emotions out of it to the best of your ability.
Remember this. let it burn in your mind.

Your wife is walking around naked in front of you for a specific reason. To let you see what you are missing. To rub it in.

Or, she wants you to try something so that she can slap you down. She wants to see if you still want her. To see [she hopes] if she still has power over you.

Or, she is horny and wants you to take her. She will never initiate..uh, uh. But if you ask her nice..or you grab her...she will pretend to give it you...oh, so reluctantly.

It is a female thing...believe me. Women know their allure.

If she hated you....all those goodies would be under wrap.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #48 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
Just saw this. Ok, so start writing down ideas on what is fair. Consider all the different factors. Retirement, current standard of living, kids' standard of living, taxes, who did what to help out the other get ahead, expected inheritances, likely future professional paths, etc.

Is it fair for you both to have the same $ to work with? Is it fair for one of you to pay for a few years so the other can get more training? Do both of you have good incomes already, thus the other doesn't have need for alimony (just desire for it)? It would be good to know what kinds of arrangements are customary where you live.

In the end, alimony should somehow be fair. Fair doesn't mean equal, just fair.
Currently my income pays for everything and she is building a new Career which pays OK and is set to increase to a much higher level over the next few years. I feel like her having the entire contents of the house and a large deposit possible 6 figures to put down on a new house that Alimony is not really fair or needed as she will have lowish mortgage payment and a fully furnished house with lots of nice expensive items she picked and I paid for.

I know its law and to protect etc but for me Alimony seems so unfair its like you don't want me but you want me to maintain your lifestyle and to continue to use my resources maybe i am just bitter.

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post #49 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
Remember this. let it burn in your mind.

Your wife is walking around naked in front of you for a specific reason. To let you see what you are missing. To rub it in.

Or, she wants you to try something so that she can slap you down. She wants to see if you still want her. To see [she hopes] if she still has power over you.

Or, she is horny and wants you to take her. She will never initiate..uh, uh. But if you ask her nice..or you grab her...she will pretend to give it you...oh, so reluctantly.

It is a female thing...believe me. Women know their allure.

If she hated you....all those goodies would be under wrap.
Sex and Naked females are definitely a guys Achilles heel.

M - 12
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post #50 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:07 AM
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Currently my income pays for everything and she is building a new Career which pays OK and is set to increase to a much higher level over the next few years. I feel like her having the entire contents of the house and a large deposit possible 6 figures to put down on a new house that Alimony is not really fair or needed as she will have lowish mortgage payment and a fully furnished house with lots of nice expensive items she picked and I paid for.

I know its law and to protect etc but for me Alimony seems so unfair its like you don't want me but you want me to maintain your lifestyle and to continue to use my resources maybe i am just bitter.
I don't know how the courts tend to go on alimony where you live. What seems fair to me, given just the tiny bits you've posted here, would be short term alimony to allow her to get on her feet. The distribution of current assets might be fair at 50/50, but then again maybe not.

Let's assume you weren't getting divorced. Her income would go up nicely over the next few years. Your lifestyle would go up quite a bit as a result. You two are living ok on your income primarily right now, and you've established a nice home and some financial assets. So her increased income would be gravy on top, allowing some luxuries or perhaps savings towards and early retirement.

But since you are getting divorced, you should not suffer a large decrease in quality of life at the expense of her having a nice quality of life. That is, her income is going to go up nicely. In a few years then, she should not be set up with a nice furnished home and a nice financial situation at your expense.

I think some short term sacrifice on your part so that she doesn't live a much lower lifestyle is ok. Not that you should have equal lifestyles, but she shouldn't be moving to a trailer while you are staying in a nice house with luxuries. And then in the long term you should both have lifestyles commensurate with your own achievements. If I understand correctly, you've been married 12 years? This does not entitle either one of you to live off of the labors of the other forever.

I would look at the property settlement and alimony as a package. You provided her with financial support over a number of yeas so that she could pursue her desired career. She benefited from your generosity. Might she argue you benefited from her giving up some of her earning potential to raise the kids or to enable you to work your career? You could offer a bit more assets up front and not pay any alimony. Or you could be harsh on the assets now and offer some decreasing alimony over the next few years as her income will go up.

Alimony can be evil, and I would be cautious about it. For me, alimony would have been nuclear war, so I understand your feelings on it!
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post #51 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

So quick update.

Went to my new IC lastnight, this is the one who specialized in men and emotionally reconnecting couples. All day at work I was confident, excited I had a plan in place, hopeful for future, total acceptance marriage was over and generally feeling pretty good about the future.

The moment I walked into the office all my emotions came to the surface again and I felt awful about life, the situation and couldn't really give him an answer on what I wanted. He asked a lot of questions and seemed to piece together pretty quickly how things had progressed over the last few months, he described what she had felt and how I would have reacted and why we both did we did and then told me straight up this is totally fixable as long as she has a 1% doubt that she is making the right decision. He went on to explain that we were in a Pursuit/Withdrawal cycle and when I go home if she asks anything to tell her what we talked about, when I got home she did ask and I did tell her and she started reading articles on it and then joked maybe she should go see this person to see if he can fix her.

I told him at this point I dont want to save anything I just want to move on since the trust and security from the relationship has gone and I cant go through that again and he told me that how I am feeling right now is the same place she has been in and people do flip back and forth.

He also told me that he doesn't think I am allowing myself to grieve the relationship or that I have truly accepted its over(somewhat agree) and he told me in order for him to help me going forward if I do still love her then I should go talk to her one final time and tell her how I feel about her and that I didn't want this, apologize for any past hurt and then I will be able to look back without any regret in the future and not think what if I had done this or that. I did say I do not think this part is possible for me at this stage but I would give it some thought to which he said I can't make you do anything and she could be done and it will hurt really bad if she is but then you will truly be ready to start healing properly so sleep on it.

Anyway pretty deep stuff from my point of view so thought I would share it, woke up today in the same mindset as yesterday ready to move forward with a new life.

M - 12
Kids - 2
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post #52 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
I don't know how the courts tend to go on alimony where you live. What seems fair to me, given just the tiny bits you've posted here, would be short term alimony to allow her to get on her feet. The distribution of current assets might be fair at 50/50, but then again maybe not.

Let's assume you weren't getting divorced. Her income would go up nicely over the next few years. Your lifestyle would go up quite a bit as a result. You two are living ok on your income primarily right now, and you've established a nice home and some financial assets. So her increased income would be gravy on top, allowing some luxuries or perhaps savings towards and early retirement.

But since you are getting divorced, you should not suffer a large decrease in quality of life at the expense of her having a nice quality of life. That is, her income is going to go up nicely. In a few years then, she should not be set up with a nice furnished home and a nice financial situation at your expense.

I think some short term sacrifice on your part so that she doesn't live a much lower lifestyle is ok. Not that you should have equal lifestyles, but she shouldn't be moving to a trailer while you are staying in a nice house with luxuries. And then in the long term you should both have lifestyles commensurate with your own achievements. If I understand correctly, you've been married 12 years? This does not entitle either one of you to live off of the labors of the other forever.

I would look at the property settlement and alimony as a package. You provided her with financial support over a number of yeas so that she could pursue her desired career. She benefited from your generosity. Might she argue you benefited from her giving up some of her earning potential to raise the kids or to enable you to work your career? You could offer a bit more assets up front and not pay any alimony. Or you could be harsh on the assets now and offer some decreasing alimony over the next few years as her income will go up.

Alimony can be evil, and I would be cautious about it. For me, alimony would have been nuclear war, so I understand your feelings on it!
The state I live in assets are usually divided equally 50/50.

My frustrations are I have put everything into a Job and the kids while neglecting a social life so she could build social connections and have fun, I didn't want her to give up her career but she chose to anyway and her staying at home did not make any difference to my career other than add more stress to me to provide. By staying at home she has found a new career which long term is going to pay much more than her past and makes use of her degree so I feel a little used and resentful at this point, I have been making really good money for a number of years and don't spend any of it on myself I have put it all into making sure we are financially secure, I literally have nothing to show for it and none of the thing I wanted to buy or do. Sorry just venting a little.

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post #53 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:27 AM
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

Seems to me her career investment is a marital asset


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post #54 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Here's the trick: you only have to tell one person. Tell the biggest blabbermouth you know, and tell him/her (or have someone else tell Blabbermouth). Pretty soon, everyone will know without you having to do anything
Finally plucked up courage to tell parents, it was a big relief and they were really supportive. Finally talking to certain people is a big big help.

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post #55 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

I would try to make a case regarding the investment of marital assets over the 12 year period. Of course I was an accountant, but if you can sketch out a spreadsheet of net income then an estimate of where it went over time that's your marital investment. At a minimum it will show a moderator and your w why you think a particular final settlement is fair


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post #56 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:32 AM
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Entering Divorce proceedings

That's another reason others have said to sketch out all the household items too. People don't really have a handle on where all the money goes - particularly when they're not earning it - so this will show your point of view


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post #57 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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That's another reason others have said to sketch out all the household items too. People don't really have a handle on where all the money goes - particularly when they're not earning it - so this will show your point of view


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Yes this is very true.

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post #58 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:51 AM
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Finally plucked up courage to tell parents, it was a big relief and they were really supportive. Finally talking to certain people is a big big help.
When people know what's going, they can be supportive. If you don't tell people, they can't help you. And the people who love you will want to help you.

Except crappy people who aren't good at being helpful and supportive. Don't deal with them. That's why I don't tell my mom anything. But that's me and not you. I would bet money that your parents are more helpful and supportive than mine tend to be.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #59 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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Yes, but ... the contents of the house have a real monetary value. Even more so from the standpoint of you having to buy new stuff. Just a few things for the kitchen can cost a hundred $. New trash cans for the bathrooms $10 or $20 each. New towels. New plates, forks & knives. It adds up really really fast. Since you don't really care about a lot of the objects themselves, use them as bargaining chips. Don't just give them away for nothing. Tell her it is going to cost you thousands to replace all that little stuff.

Alimony may be a fairly simple formula in your state, but there is always the issue of fairness. Plus you might negotiate for some kind of up front lump sum payout rather than making monthly payments for the next umpteen years.

Beware the complexities of calculating values for things like the house and 401k. Consider all the costs of buying/selling/mortgaging a house. Consider taxes on the retirement account which makes the current value actually less than it looks like. Don't exchange, for example, $100k in the 401k for $100k in a regular investment account. This is where your lawyer earns his money, figuring what those things are really worth.
Good idea on using them for Bargaining i didn't even think of that, thanks for bringing that up.

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post #60 of 641 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Entering Divorce proceedings

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When people know what's going, they can be supportive. If you don't tell people, they can't help you. And the people who love you will want to help you.

Except crappy people who aren't good at being helpful and supportive. Don't deal with them. That's why I don't tell my mom anything. But that's me and not you. I would bet money that your parents are more helpful and supportive than mine tend to be.
They were great and I knew they would be was just a hard thing to break to them or talk about in general.

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