Meatpuppet

So I'm cross posting this from the "Considering Divorce and Separation" subforum as I just realized I posted in the wrong place...

It's really a sad commentary on modern society that you can google "my wife said she loves me but isn't in love with me" and get about a billion hits. At the top of the list was a thread from this forum...so here I am.

I took some time to read through a bunch of threads before I reg'd and posted, and I gotta say it's both comforting and terrifying that so many of your situations are exactly like mine. I really need some clarity. I apologize, this is kind of a long story, so if you have some time, coffee and maybe a cigarette or two, I'd really appreciate if ya read it

My wife and I have been married for 6 years. When we met, she was honest, hardworking, but above all - she was...wholesome. You know guys...the kind of girl who radiates that innocence that makes you think she'd never do anything to ever hurt you. However, she eventually slipped into a depression that she couldn't shake. This, plus the fact that she'd been lying to me compulsively for the last 6 years is what might do us in.

We're both teachers (actually, I still am, she's not. Read on to find out why) in a very rough school district, so needless to say work was a major stressor on both of us. Being a guy, I had a much easier time getting kids in line, but she had a very rough time dealing with our "clientele". She'd come home distraught and exhausted - everyone I work with does! - but it really took its toll on her. She hated her job and despised getting up every morning. I encouraged and helped her as best I could. Little did I know, this job was eating away at her little by little. On top of the rotten kids, some administrators, for political reasons I won't go into - decided to pick on her. Our last principal was a total sadist. He'd belittle her teaching, and when she started crying in his office, he sent her on a mandatory psychological exam to see if she was fit to teach. That completely devastated her. She was a really great teacher and most kids loved her. This kind of thing happened to literally dozens of teachers at my district, so it wasn't just her. That wasn't much comfort though. Her confidence was totally shot after that.


Now to be a teacher in my state, you have to get a masters degree within 4 years of getting hired. She began hers, but never finished. She lied to me for months, telling me it was done and all she had to do was meet with her thesis advisor and that was that. Just before the beginning of the 5th year, she told me that she's resigning from teaching because she didn't finish her thesis. Well, there's BIG LIE #1. After my initial shock, I agreed it was best for her and told her I totally forgave her for lying to me.

At this point, she started seeing a therapist. She went through four of them, started and quit anti-depressants, and finally settled on one that she felt she was making good progress with. She is still seeing this same therapist today.

After trying unsuccessfully to get tutoring jobs that don't require certification, she finally settled on being a dispatcher for a small fuel company (only 2 minutes from where we used to work, incidentally). We looked at our finances and figured that we'd just squeak by and be able to keep our house. We both agreed that the office job would be an OK temporary position until she finished her thesis and could get back in the classroom. All was well for about a year...until the eviction notice came. We called a laywer, and my wife insisted that she "take the lead" in the situation. Like a damned fool, I trusted her. Two weeks later, she said the lawyer called the mortgage company and it was all a big misunderstanding.

Slowly, ever since resigning from teaching, I noticed her getting more and more distant. I asked her literally hundreds of times "babe, what's wrong?" and the inevitable reply was "oh nothin, I'm just tired." That's not to say we didn't have good times - they were just getting fewer and farther between. Add to that the fact that our sex life was almost non-existent, and you have a husband wondering if his wife is sneaking around. Mind you I had no evidence at all (she actually said on many many occasions she HATES cheaters) and her boss was a degenerate pot-smoking troll, so I just chalked it up to paranoia. Still, I couldn't shake the feeling.

Finally one night she called after working late saying she was coming home. She said she was going to stop off at McDonalds to grab some food and she'd be right home. It took her almost two hours to get back from a trip that should've taken about 40 minutes. When she came in, I was upset, asking where she was. She got counter-upset, saying the line was huge and there was traffic. I told her I wanted to see the receipt so I could check the time, which led her to storm upstairs. I didn't speak to her for the whole next day. I'm sorry to say that's one of my many faults: I do the silent treatment routine when I feel I've been wronged. Even though she was almost certainly telling me the truth about why she was late, I still had that pall of paranoia around me that she'd been with someone.

That Friday, I planned a make-up date - good old movies and dinner, which we both love more than anything. I called her at work asking what she wanted to see, and she said casually that she was going upstate to see her friend. The friend in question, mind you, is an absolute idiot who hasn't been in a meaningful relationship for more than two hours. They got into fights all the time, and when they did, my wife would tell me all the sh-t things she'd say about me. For example, there were a few times when my wife would make dinner and I just wouldn't wake up from a nap. My wife got angry that I did this occasionally, and she told me her friend said we should get a divorce. It was actually something we'd joke about!

As for her impromptu trip, I was taken aback, but agreed, not wanting to make her more angry.

She spent the entire weekend there...and didn't come back Sunday. I texted her at 2am on Sunday night asking where she was. She said she was tired on the way home and decided to sleep at her parents'.

That Monday, she called me and said she thinks we should spend some time apart. She revealed - FINALLY revealed - that she wasn't happy for a long time. I was as shocked as I was devastated; I had no idea she'd been so unhappy with our marriage. But I reluctantly agreed.

Well, the decision to split was made much easier by the fact that the eviction I thought was taken care of months before hadn't been at all. Here comes BIG LIE #2: I came to find out she hadn't been paying our mortgage...for almost a year. Yes, I know I'm an idiot for trusting her to handle it, but what was done was done.

After an angry, tearful exchange, I forgave her (again) and we sobbed in each others arms. The move turned out to be easy, as I just moved a few feet next door to my neighbor's apartment, and she moved back home. We both parted with the agreement that we'd work on ourselves and our marriage - but we both swore that we'd make a commitment to get back on track.

The split was last February. Since March, we slowly reconnected and became romantic. Sex still wasn't as frequent as I would've liked, but still, I thought we were going in the right direction. For a good 9 months, it seemed like we were back to our old selves. We exchanged "I loved yous" all the time, started going to a gym, dates every weekend with her spending the nights at my place.

Which brings us to this Christmas...

We had a really great holiday. We did all our traditional things, with me going to her parents' house for the Eve and my parents' house the day. We had a fantastic time, and there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever that things were going south.

Again, sorry for being so damned long-winded. Almost done!

That brings us to this Wednesday. We were supposed to go to a party at a friend's house, and when the day came, I called her at work to see if she'd meet me there or if she wanted to come to my place first. She said "oh, today is Wednesday? I thought it was Thursday." Immediately I got a twinge of panic - she works as a dispatcher for oil deliveries...she HAS to know what day it is. On top of that, her brother's b-day dinner was that Thursday, so she couldn't have had it in her head that she was both going to the party AND her brother's b-day...she would've just said she couldn't go when we got the invite.

This is where the sh-t hits the fan...

I say I'm sick of the lies and ask her to please, please tell me the truth. Let me say that since our separation, she'd said many, many times she wants to move back in - we'd even started looking at places on the internet. However, recently, she suggested that we maybe wait 6 months because she doesn't want to move out in the winter. At the time it seemed reasonable, but now, after catching her in this lie, it seemed that her suggestion to postpone moving in was just a ploy to buy more time in the separation. That, coupled with the newest lie I caught her in, made me press her for answers. She eventually admitted she loves me but she's not in love with me. She said that she was afraid to move back in because things might just go back to the way they were. BIG LIE #3: How is it, HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY BE, that for 10 months...after thousands of "I love yous" and romantic moments she says this?!

I started to do exactly what I shouldn't at that point (wish I read this forum sooner) I begged and pleaded, asked her what her life would be like without "us," etc. I brought up counseling and she said "well, you could go." I was beside myself.

We eventually agreed to continue talking the next day (it was late and she had work in the morning). She promised she'd call after she got home.

She never did.

I texted her, asking what was wrong. Nothing. Then I broke down and called. We talked a little more and agreed to meet after she got off work the next day - new year's eve eve. I spent the whole rest of that night writing her a sonnet (yea, I said a freakin sonnet...they're damned hard to write!) that I was literally crying over after writing the last line. I sent her the sonnet with some flowers to her work. I thought (foolishly, in retrospect) that this gesture might "soften things up" for our meeting.

I'll give ya one guess what happened. She didn't call.

She texted later on saying she had to go to her parents' house for dinner with her cousin and her husband. At that point I'd had enough. I drove to her house, gave her back the ring and said goodbye to her parents. All of them seemed stunned (including her cousin and her husband ).


The next day I went to the bank and opened a separate checking account and moved some money over. Then I did another probably dumb thing.

I went into her emails (she'd given me the pw a few weeks before to check an email for her). I found a folder entitled "friends" and in it were several letters to the idiot friend of hers she'd visited that fateful weekend. These things go back to Jan 2007...SIX MONTHS into our marriage. In it, she detailed her unhappiness with her job, her depression, and her problems with me. I guess I should say now there were times when I could've been more attentive - less video games, that sort of thing. But she said in this letter, again 6 months into our marriage, that she didn't like married life and she was worried about herself. She said in several places throughout these letters that she loved me with all her heart, but that getting married might've been a mistake and that she misses home. I should note that she and her mom have a very - dare I say somewhat freakishly - close relationship. Even though I married a very hardworking, independent girl, she was really coddled by her parents. In many ways, I think emotionally she's still very much a girl; she had this idealized fantasy of marriage and when it didn't go according to plan, she just wanted out. She even mentioned in her letters that our wedding day was fading in her mind and it killed her - which seems to me that marriage was all about the "day of it" and not the "rest of it."

In the emails, she also chalked up her unwillingness to finish her masters to her depression - if I can armchair psychologize for a sec, I believe it was just a subconscious way of not having to go back to a job she hated. Completely understandable. She also said that the depression left her crippled when it came to our finances. I have to admit I'm terrible with money, whereas she was a bill-juggling genius when I first met her; she had A+ credit and was a great budgeter. I should've been more involved than I was with the financial side of things, but again, I trusted her.

She also said in one email sex was a chore, and she was running out of ways to deny my advances (that one cut me really really fkng deep).

Again, I had literally NO IDEA things were that bad so early on. We had our ups and downs, but overall, the first years of our marriage were great. All a testament to how deceitful people can be, I suppose. She never told me A THING about how she was really feeling ("oh nothing, I'm tired", remember? ). We laughed and had many, many good times in the years right up until she couldn't hide her depression anymore.

Well, I told her two days ago that I read those emails. I justified it by saying I had literally NOTHING to go on, and I needed answers. Understandably, she got rather mad, saying she doesn't even remember writing them or what was in them. I calmly suggested she read them again. She said she was and basically hung up on me, sobbing.

Immediately after that convo, I sent her an email apologizing again, stressing the fact that I'd never, ever in a million years consider doing that unless I was desperate for answers (there was nothing in there that suggested an affair, btw. Not proof it didn't happen, but it was somewhat reassuring). I finished the email by saying (again, perhaps foolishly) that I was still in love with her, and that I wished to God she'd told ME all those things instead of her friend. A friend, incidentally, she STOPPED TALKING TO months ago because she finally realized she was a crazy, self-absorbed ***** who was never really a friend to her at all.

Shortly after that, I got text from her saying she was sorry for getting angry at me, and that she understood why I did what I did. She promised to call me and write me a letter which (finally) explained her feelings.

It's been almost 24 hours since that text. I'm firmly resolved not to contact her until (or unless) she makes the first move.

I feel strongly there's still something there. One of her emails was to a Pit Bull rescue foundation - a dog we both love - and she wanted to know if she could get one before Christmas so she could surprise me! That was only a few weeks ago! How does someone resolve to get their spouse a dog and then only weeks later tell them they're out of love with them when NOTHING EVER HAPPENED TO CAUSE IT? She also wanted to make some big purchases with me for my apartment (TV, etc) that we could use when we moved back in. Again, those conversations only happened about three weeks ago. I totally believed (and I guess she did too, at the time) that we were still on track to get back together.

Despite the nearly 6 years of lies, I still would do anything to have her back. I know that our problems are entirely fixable, but our marriage was like a car we had the keys to, but neither knew how to drive. After what she did to me, my family and friends would kill me if I went back, but hey...I made a vow, and I intend to do whatever it takes to honor it...even if she hasn't.

There's my tale...any words of advice, encouragement, or admonishment would be greatly appreciated

Meatpuppet

I know it's a long story, but does anyone wanna take a shot at this? I'm kinda desperate for another perspective...

aeg512

You and your wifes parents need to talk her into going to counseling. She needs this sooner than later. Also, you should change school districts to one where the students as a whole are better behaved. Your wife went downhill from the job she was in and if the pay was higher it is not worth it. I was a supervisor in a high pressure job but would even suggest to the workers that were good if I saw the job getting to them advise them to leave. Ask your wife to have IC for about six months, then you both can make a decision. At that point maybe you could come up with antoher teaching job!

SadSamIAm

This is not one of the typical "I love you, but not in love with you stories'. You have found evidence that she has never really been happy in the marriage. It isn't the typical marriage where a number of years are great and slowly goes downhill and then an affair happens to ruin it.

There may or may not be an affair. You will need to investigate to see what is going on.

It could be that you have been there for her too much. You have forgiven her lies too easily. She is taking you for granted.

What you have been doing isn't working. You need to change it up.

I say let her go. Do a 180! Tell her you aren't interested in moving back in together. Move on with your life. I can hear in your voice how much you care for her and it will be difficult to do, but you need to move on.

She will either be relieved it is over or she will realize she has some work to do!

laila123

I suggest get bait of space between you 2, whilst she seeks help. Even when you moved out, you saw each other quite soon there after, not really giving yourselves the space you needed to find yourselves again.

You've been an extremely supportive partner, but until she's happy with herself, she will never be happy with you. And its not fair on either of you.

Good luck

canguy66

Wow... I really feel for you, and see some my own situation in yours. My wife was coddled by her parents as well (still talks to them in a "girlish" voice often, and she's 36). Like yours, mine went through the motions for months with saying "I love you" often, and later said she was faking it until she could make it. In my case, my wife has finally realized she has issues that she needs help with. Still, she says she is unhappy, loves me but is not in love with me, you name it. She wants out of the marriage, and will be moving to an apartment in February. We're putting th house up for sale, coming up with a separation agreement, you name it. But enough about my case.

I would strongly recommend you both see a marriage counsellor. In your situation, it seems like she is still at least a bit interested in saving the marriage at this point (mine is not). An MC can help you both get down to the core issues of your relationship, such as trust, communication, and all this can really help clear the fog. You might also benefit from individual counselling. If infidelity has occurred, you have to decide if it's something you can live with and forgive.

In my case, problems started in November 2010. We made an appt to see a MC, but cancelled it after things started to improve. I really regret not going. Fast-forward a year later, and it's too late for me. My wife and I saw an MC, but he said there was no common ground to work from. I am devastated, but in a slightly better place than I was on December 11th when she asked to separate for the third time.

If this helps, here's a quote I came across, which spoke volumes to me: "Don't make someone a priority if they only make you an option."

Meatpuppet

Thank you so much for the replies! I'm truly hoping she sees MC as an option. Meantime, I've been doing A LOT of reading on this and other forums and discovered the 180. It made immediate sense to me and I resolved to enact its principles.

It's tough...terribly tough...but I'm doing it. To all of you going through this, I'm literally praying for you. If this situation has any upside, it's that my relationship with God has gotten much better. Since I first posted, I came a good ways past crying on the floor after I found one of her hairs on my pillow (true story).

Again, thanks! I'll keep you all posted

KenCasanova

Hope it all goes well, yeah definitely counselling.

good lcuk!

This is me

Like Cando66 she sounds like one of the ones who were not brought up to be women and still hanging on apron strings. Can relate. Possibly not mature enough and should have never stepped into an adult marriage. IMHO they are very confused as to the responsibility of the role they took on and sometimes revert to the daughter not wife.

Counseling.

desert-rose

Your wife sounds really depressed and lost. It seems like she is still looking to her family and friends to give her support instead of looking to you. Has it always been this way? Like, even before you were married? If you're sure that there is no affair, if you're sure that she loves you and is dissatisfied with the marriage for reasons other than her feelings for you, I'd say don't give up. Also, give her some space and support to figure out what she is going through. You're hurt by her ambivalence and frustration about the day to day experience of marriage, but she sounds like the kind of gal who expects the fairytale and doesn't know what to do when it is not that ideal but something else. It may just have been venting. Marriage counseling will help. More importantly, she seems to have lost herself a bit and needs to find herself. Give her support as she needs it but also give her a lot of space. She really needs to tackle this depression because it sounds like it's contributing to these problems. Try talking to her parents and letting them know how you feel and see if they can offer you another perspective. Normally, I'd say don't involve family, but she sounds like she needs some real support. You, too, by the way. I hope you've got friends or a therapist that you can talk to about what you're going through. Hang in there!

Meatpuppet

Thanks again for the replies. My first counseling appointment is Friday, and I feel like every day I cant tell my story to a sympathetic ear I'll go insane.

I have an update to the saga, and I'd love some advice...

I'm seeing a divorce lawyer tomorrow to have a chat about where I stand. I don't want to say I was pressured into it by my family, who went from loving my wife to death to being utterly repulsed by her for what she's done.

I'm going because I think that sending her something "concrete" is going to spur her into action. If you didn't read my OP, we left off with the ball in her court...she was supposed to send me an email that explains her feelings - the truth, or so she promises.

That was three days ago. Still no calls. No email.

I'm actually glad that she hasn't responded, becuase now the spotlight is on her to act. I'm being "totally 180" about this; no calls, texts, emails, smoke signals...nada.

So that leaves me with a few options. Advice would be super sweet....

1) Do I remain silent and wait for the email? (which might never come)

2) Do I see the lawyer and get the ball rolling tomorrow, such that my next and only commincation with her are divorce papers?

3) Do I call her and offer her a chance at counseling? I have an appointment on Friday. This is the least 180ish, but the most optimistic.

Dadof3

I'd divorce her. Can we call you Matt as in Doormat? Dude! Man up!

gearhead65

You've got the Parent-Child dynamic. I know because I have it too. As much as you love her, let her fall on her face. File for divorce. If you're anything like me, you want a real partner. Not someone you have to raise and educate. She needs to be able to stand on her own two feet.

Let me show you something. You know how you moved into a neighbors apartment? Where did she go? Home. She ran back to mom and dad. She didn't try to make it on her own. Meaning she isn't ready to be on her own due to self-esteem issues. If she can't love herself how in the world do you expect her to love you? And more to the point love you in a way that is healthy?

You are the adult, but your giving the child the power. What does a child do with power? Re-read "Lord of the Flies". She doesn't know how to run her life or admit that she can't. It isn't good for you or for her. She'll move back in and you two will go back into this. I also wouldn't believe that she's told you everything. Or that the emails were all of them. A relationship can't survive in lies. She needs to get counseling and work on herself. You need to file and move on. If she wants you, truely wants you, there is nothing she would let get in the way of it.

Time to flip the script and heal yourself. If she comes along great, if not you're better off.

GearHead

Meatpuppet

Well said gents. I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow.

I'll keep you posted.

Dadof3