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post #46 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 02:43 PM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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Originally Posted by alwaysconfusedandlost View Post
Thanks for reading my long post... i think my moving out may be the best way to give her the space she needs... also, i think the kids need her more than me - she drives them back from school, and she makes lunches for them.. i can do the lunch thing, but not the driving as i'm at work which is about 30-40mins away

yes, i've never pushed her before, and i surprised myself even, i think i was trying to grab her arm, and couldn't and pushed instead she insists that what i've done is a crime..

i went to therapy the last time (when i threw plates and broke the rice cooker), it didn't help, i felt like i was pouring my heart out to a stranger, and i didn't get anything back apart from "get her to come see me too..."

i'm not going to record her - i don't think she is malicious, i think she is messed up, i think i am too... what is sad is that i'm doing well at work - but failing miserably at home...

i just don't know how to cope with it - i've never been away from my family for any extended time... even with business trips, i call home everyday, and text... this is going to be so hard...

i don't get why she can just decide it's over... i did read your 180 post... it's good advice, i don't know if i can go through with it though... 25 years... sigh. how do i tell the kids? how do i not scar them like what her parents did to her? my parents are still happily married, and i really respect them for staying together even through they had some trying times... oh, as my wife also hates my parents (she thinks they are shallow), i don't talk to them as much in the last 10 years or so... they have also only seen the grandkids perhaps once every year...

sigh.

NO NO NO NO NONO....do not leave.....please do not leave...giving her space is what she wants...and the worst thing you can do...there are several people on this board who did the same thing and the next thing you know they found out there was a another man in their home and they changed the locks...you will come to regret it....this will not save your marriage.

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post #47 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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Why are your kids not asking for daddy to come back?
What is missing here?
I haven't left, she just asked me to leave yesterday. My kids don't know yet, i don't know how to break it to them. After our fight, she has been vocal about wanting to go away for a long time (to see her mum), so the kids know something is up but not the details - they have gone into semi-shutdown mode as i don't think they know how to deal with this as well - we're fighting pretty regularly, and she is throwing snide remarks all the time, i can only imagine their stress. The interesting thing is that our fights doesn't seem to impact her interactions with the kids, with the kids, she is always smiles, always laughing - with me, it's the exact opposite - even when we're actively arguing, she can switch on a dime to talk nicely to the kids, and not me.
sigh.
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post #48 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

i checked with a lawyer - it seems in my state, as she is a SAHM, i am already screwed for custody of the kids whether i leave home or not. As i am not at home for the same amount of hours, she has the first claim - however she has to find a job first.. i hope it doesn't come to that - but leaving doesn't put me in any legal dilemma.

that said, i don't want to leave, i want to work things out, i want to try the guide to hardened women that was posted here, i want to find a way to make things work, i'm going to propose that i move to the basement, and see how she takes it.

this is really affecting me, i'm at work today and i can barely focus - its worse with all the people coming by and talking about this work issue, that work issue - it all seems like trivial stuff when my family is falling apart.

I just tried to schedule a new therapist, but got voice mail - boy this hurts bad. sigh.
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post #49 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:44 PM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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Originally Posted by alwaysconfusedandlost View Post
i checked with a lawyer - it seems in my state, as she is a SAHM, i am already screwed for custody of the kids whether i leave home or not. As i am not at home for the same amount of hours, she has the first claim - however she has to find a job first.. i hope it doesn't come to that - but leaving doesn't put me in any legal dilemma.

that said, i don't want to leave, i want to work things out, i want to try the guide to hardened women that was posted here, i want to find a way to make things work, i'm going to propose that i move to the basement, and see how she takes it.

this is really affecting me, i'm at work today and i can barely focus - its worse with all the people coming by and talking about this work issue, that work issue - it all seems like trivial stuff when my family is falling apart.

I just tried to schedule a new therapist, but got voice mail - boy this hurts bad. sigh.
Of course you do not want to lose your family. You love them, your wife included.

That article is a great guide to follow. There are other excellent articles on that website, too.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #50 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:48 PM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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Originally Posted by alwaysconfusedandlost View Post
I haven't left, she just asked me to leave yesterday. My kids don't know yet, i don't know how to break it to them. After our fight, she has been vocal about wanting to go away for a long time (to see her mum), so the kids know something is up but not the details - they have gone into semi-shutdown mode as i don't think they know how to deal with this as well - we're fighting pretty regularly, and she is throwing snide remarks all the time, i can only imagine their stress. The interesting thing is that our fights doesn't seem to impact her interactions with the kids, with the kids, she is always smiles, always laughing - with me, it's the exact opposite - even when we're actively arguing, she can switch on a dime to talk nicely to the kids, and not me.
sigh.
The reason she can switch on a dime:
It doesn't impact her enough emotionally, to cause any real distress. She is indifferent.
I totally believe she is cheating on you, and has been for a long time.
It would be better for your relationship if she were angry as hell, rather than indifferent.

She's checked out. I'm so sorry.
Good news: you were not with the right person, and your life is being screwed up totally out of your control. You see this as a really bad thing right now. But a year or so from now, you will realize she did you a huge favor.

Please, I know you're totally screwed up in the head emotionally right now. You feel awful. The worst feeling is the helplessness--- I remember it well.
I promise you that your life is not over. Your wife has zero value, unless you GIVE her that value in your mind. You've got to stop giving her all this value--- the first step to healing is acceptance. Accept she is gone and you will heal much faster.

Everything your emotions will have you wanting to do-- texting, calling, begging----- these are counterproductive and will cause you further pain. I'm begging you not to do that.
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post #51 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:04 PM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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Originally Posted by alwaysconfusedandlost View Post
i checked with a lawyer - it seems in my state, as she is a SAHM, i am already screwed for custody of the kids whether i leave home or not. As i am not at home for the same amount of hours, she has the first claim - however she has to find a job first.. i hope it doesn't come to that - but leaving doesn't put me in any legal dilemma.



that said, i don't want to leave, i want to work things out, i want to try the guide to hardened women that was posted here, i want to find a way to make things work, i'm going to propose that i move to the basement, and see how she takes it.



this is really affecting me, i'm at work today and i can barely focus - its worse with all the people coming by and talking about this work issue, that work issue - it all seems like trivial stuff when my family is falling apart.



I just tried to schedule a new therapist, but got voice mail - boy this hurts bad. sigh.

Why not go directly to anger management instead of a therapist? That sounds to me like the main issue she has with you. Is it possible your wife is suffering from PPD/on-going depression? I know you mentioned it after her mom left.

I'd still recommend doing motel therapy for at least a few weeks, mainly to protect yourself from triggers while you work on eliminating your angry outbursts. I'd let her know before you go what you are doing and why, and that you're taking it very seriously. That you want a great marriage with her and you know there is work to be done to get there, but this comes first for her safety and protection.

While in treatment, extend offers to date your wife, if she will accept. You're the father of her children, she will soften once she sees how hard you're working.

Tell her you want to find ways to make the home more peaceful.

I don't see anything wrong with her trying to put on a brave, happy face for the children. It doesn't mean that she's not in pain too due to the state of your marriage right now, just that she likely knows the importance of keeping it together for them.


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post #52 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:13 PM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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thanks for giving me this perspective - there is no excuse for the behavior.
I'll take the opposite view on this. I really don't think you have a problem with anger. Ok so you bottle it up sometimes and it comes out it's not like you knowingly abuse her. You are...human?? She was looking for an edge, something she could use to bring you down. She found it and she's going to use it over and over until she gets what she wants. I suggest you do the same she did to you, look for that flaw and bait her til she messes up.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #53 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

i'm still in the house, she is still cold, she avoids answering my questions. i still haven't manned up about moving to the basement instead of moving out (didn't want to aggravate her). I have set up counseling on Friday, and as i had outlined earlier, talked to a lawyer (screwed either way). This is so hard.
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post #54 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 01:19 AM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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Originally Posted by alwaysconfusedandlost View Post
i'm still in the house, she is still cold, she avoids answering my questions. i still haven't manned up about moving to the basement instead of moving out (didn't want to aggravate her). I have set up counseling on Friday, and as i had outlined earlier, talked to a lawyer (screwed either way). This is so hard.
What do you plan to talk to her about your moving to the basement? It sounds like you are going to ask her permission.

If you are going to move to the basement just do it. Let her find out after you do it. Just make sure she does not lock the door to the main part of the house. It's still your home.
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post #55 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:24 AM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

I agree with others, DO NOT move out of YOUR house. Not even a temporary stay in a hotel. If your wife wants out, point to the door.

I guess I have to ask, all of your kids are in school, what exactly is your wife doing all day? It sounds like she is doing the pool guy or the lawn guy. Spare me the speech about how hard it is to take care of a house and three kids all are above the age of 11. Laundry goes up but the kids are more than capable of taking care of themselves and helping out.

She is totally checked out of your marriage and has no respect for you at all. At some point you need to get your balls our of her purse and put them back where they belong. You make the money, start to control it as well. Start to take control back of your life. You can't control anyone's actions but your own. Stop doing all of the work around the house and go workout instead. Dinner didn't get done? To bad. Your wife has 8 hours a day free of kids she could prepare for that. You are also allowed to disagree with your wife. You don't have to be nasty about it but you don't have to give in either. I am afraid that your marriage is most likely done if you cannot man-up and start to assert some level of control instead of being a doormat.

Use your therapy appointment to work on making you a better person. Someone who is happy and comfortable with themselves. It may take a couple of therapists till you find one that really can help you, so don't get discouraged by one that does not seem to help. Keep trying. Learn to communicate and deescalate situations so that everything doesn't end up in an argument.

As for the attorney, talk to a couple of more. That is such BS that you have to take it in the butt because she is a SAHM. More and more states have reworked the divorce laws to be more equitable to fathers and mothers. 50/50 split with the kids should be more than possible, but you have to be willing to stand up for your rights as a Dad. Don't give your wife everything in a divorce because you are a "nice guy." You are entitled to certain things as well and don't accept the every other weekend (EOW) screw job. It may require that you revamp your job to be able to take care of the kids, but that is the price you pay to be in their lives. Kids need both parents in their lives, not just one. Fight for your rights.

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post #56 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:36 AM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

If you were throwing dishes and breaking the rice cooker, you wife is probably afraid of you on some level. I honestly have no idea why some posters seem to think she made a big deal out of nothing.....there is an anger problem and an inability to control oneself here.

When one is capable of throwing and breaking things it's not usually a one time thing. Were there other instances of you getting upset and doing this?

Men are generally bigger and when they can't control their anger and resort to throwing and breaking things many women will find it scary and intimidating. Your wife was probably on high alert which is why when you grabbed her she sensed an escalation. Think about it: you have a history of breaking things and now you're grabbing her.

Ok, I get that it was an accident. But what wasn't an accident is that you got upset enough to try to physically stop her.....many serious incidents start this way.

So I'll ask again for clarity: do you have a history of getting upset and throwing/breaking things? If so the dynamic is different then much of the advice would apply to. Admittedly I haven't read all of the posts so I apologize if you've already addressed this.
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post #57 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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If you were throwing dishes and breaking the rice cooker, you wife is probably afraid of you on some level. I honestly have no idea why some posters seem to think she made a big deal out of nothing.....there is an anger problem and an inability to control oneself here.

When one is capable of throwing and breaking things it's not usually a one time thing. Were there other instances of you getting upset and doing this?

Men are generally bigger and when they can't control their anger and resort to throwing and breaking things many women will find it scary and intimidating. Your wife was probably on high alert which is why when you grabbed her she sensed an escalation. Think about it: you have a history of breaking things and now you're grabbing her.

Ok, I get that it was an accident. But what wasn't an accident is that you got upset enough to try to physically stop her.....many serious incidents start this way.

So I'll ask again for clarity: do you have a history of getting upset and throwing/breaking things? If so the dynamic is different then much of the advice would apply to. Admittedly I haven't read all of the posts so I apologize if you've already addressed this.
I appreciate the feedback - yes, i know she may be scared. I have also seen her react very adversely when her other family member offend her in various ways, so not all of her reaction is surprising. What is sad/surprising is that i can't seem to do the right thing to help her calm down and want to forgive...

You asked about my history, there are 3 total "incidents"
1. i called her b**** (and instantly regretted it) (many years ago)
2. i got mad, upset and ended up throwing plates and breaking the rice cooker (2 years ago, i just remembered i posted about it here when it happened)
3. i was mad, got upset as she was getting ready to throw some stuff (a laptop) out the door, and shoved her as she was heading to the door. (more than a week ago now)

i have gotten mad before, but i have usually walked away or just not engaged. I don't usually share my frustrations (even work ones) with anyone (not even friends) so i do have a history of bottling up frustration. Its' been something she has pointed out as a flaw in my character before. After the plate incident, i knew that something was seriously wrong with me - i was also relatively hungry at that time, and was wondering if it was blood sugar related - i don't usually lose control like this. For the shoving, i don't even know (or can explain what happened), i guess i just did it to stop her from doing something i felt was stupid? sigh.
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post #58 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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What do you plan to talk to her about your moving to the basement? It sounds like you are going to ask her permission.

If you are going to move to the basement just do it. Let her find out after you do it. Just make sure she does not lock the door to the main part of the house. It's still your home.
i don't know why i feel a need to talk to her about me moving to the basement - perhaps it's to answer the "when are you moving out" question? i'm just so confused on what the right thing is to do - i worry that if i just moved to the basement without talking, i won't know if it would even matter - yes, i have talked myself into this - it is to get permission, not sure what for though... damned i am messed up.
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post #59 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

i just wrote this - i'm thinking of sending this in email to her - any feedback?

"I hurt you, I betrayed your trust. I made the safe place that is home into a place where you feel trapped alone, without any support and help. I ignored or minimize your feelings with my ignorance, I tried to find fixes instead of listening. I have been a terrible person, and a terrible husband that is not worthy of you. Just realizing that I have been continuously doing this to the person I love is a terrible realization, and has woken me up. I have found a new therapist whom I am seeing on Friday, my focus is on controlling my anger, and seeing a different perspective that I have been missing for a long time. My goal is to rebuild (if it can) what I have so stupidly thrown away.

For many good reasons, you have asked me to move out. What I will do is move to the basement, and stay out of your way, give you space. I do this as the family is my responsibility as well, I will continue do my fatherly duties, and I will continue to work on the house, do my part, but the home will be more peaceful this way. I will co-parent, and not be an absent one.

Over the last 20 years, nothing has made me more content and happy than the family I have grown with you, while I have not expressed it as often, all of you ground me in life, and I could ask for nothing more. While I live life with few regrets, what I have done to you has become my biggest. "
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post #60 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:42 PM
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Re: she is kicking me out :(

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She cannot kick you out of your house. It is your legal residence and your children live there. Don't move out. If you need to just move to another room for right now.

You were wrong in pushing her, or whatever it was that you did. You apologized. I assume this is the only time you have done something like that. Is that right?

if she wants to leave, she can. But do not let her take the children. See a lawyer to find out how to prevent her from removing the children from their home.

You cooked breakfast and your children complained? Really? And she backed them up? Wow, that's bad parenting on her part. A parent cocks, the children eat and tell the parents thank you. That kind of disrespect should never be tolerated.

I suggest that you get into individual counseling right away because you need some help in handling what is going down. You need to get ahold of yourself so that you do not act out like that gain. She needs to do the same, but right now you need to concentrate on yourself and your children.

I also suggest that you get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you all the time while you are at home and around her. It sounds like she's looking for any reason she can to get you removed from the home. Don't give her a reason. Stay calm. And have a recording of everything so that you have poof that you did not do anything if she calls the police on you .

I agree with this, Ele. OP shouldn't move out and if she leaves, don't let her take the kids.

I feel there is more at play here. Noone takes 20 years and kids and starts throwing out works like 'that's a crime' It tells me that OP may be getting setup. Further, what spouse wants their spouse to move out with finances and kids in play.

There is something else here. OP needs to take a chill pill but also needs to live there and be on top of the situation for his kids and his marriage/family. Yes, VAR immediately

Finally, yes I think you need therapy in controlling your anger and I am not saying that you didn't do wrong because you did. However but that email you are thinking about sending her is a complete capitulation and will cuckold you to her for a very long time. You have to strike a balance between contrition and defending yourself by illustrating the importance of the good things you have done while the importance of you being the kids father comes into play. tell her you are getting help.

You are begging to stay in your own house which is a bad move. Giving her unlimited space is bad and an email like the one you are sending makes you look extremely weak. And weak guys normally lose, even if they somehow save their marriage, they are never respected again.

Last edited by wmn1; 04-20-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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